Not By Works

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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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So a question. Sheep versus Sons?
The sheep that follow and serve are His sons/daughters:

John/Yahanan 10:27-30, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; neither will any man snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who gave them to Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand: I and My Father are in accord."

John 12:25-26, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. He who loves his life shall lose it, and he who hates his life in this world shall preserve it for everlasting life." Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.”

John 14:23-24, "יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”

Mat 25:31-46, “And when the Son of Aḏam comes in His esteem, and all the set-apart messengers with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His esteem. And all the nations shall be gathered before Him, and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats. And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the Sovereign shall say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the reign prepared for you from the foundation of the world for I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me. Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry and we fed You, or thirsty and gave You to drink? And when did we see You a stranger and took You in, or naked and clothed You? And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and we came to You? And the Sovereign shall answer and say to them, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me. He shall then also say to those on the left hand, ‘Go away from Me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his messengers for I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, was naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me. Then they also shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not serve You? Then He shall answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.”

Malachi 3:14-18, “You have said, ‘It is worthless to serve Yah. And what did we gain when we guarded His Charge, and when we walked as mourners before יהוה of hosts? And now we are calling the proud blessed – not only are the doers of wrongness built up, but they also try Yah and escape. Then shall those who fear יהוה speak to one another, and יהוה listens and hears, and a book of remembrance be written before Him, of those who fear יהוה, and those who think upon His Name. And they shall be Mine,” said יהוה of hosts, “on the day that I prepare a treasured possession. And I shall spare them as a man spares his own son who serves him. Then you shall again see the difference between the righteous and the wrong, between one who serves Yah and one who does not serve Him."

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

Mat 4:17, “From that time יהושע began to proclaim and to say, “Repent, for the reign of the heavens has drawn near.”

John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 - poimén)."

John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."

John/Yahanan 8:12, “Therefore יהושע spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall by no means walk in darkness, but possess the light of life.”

John 9:5, “While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

John/Yahanan 6:27, John 6:27, “Do not labor for the food that is perishing, but for the food that is remaining to everlasting life, which the Son of Aḏam shall give you, for the Father, Yah, has set His seal on Him.”


John/Yahanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

Mat 28:19-20, “Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, immersing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Set-apart Spirit, and make disciples of all the nations, immersing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Set-apart Spirit. Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

nations” is word #G1484 - ethnos: a race, a nation, pl. the nations (as distinct from Isr.), Original Word: ἔθνος, ους, τό, Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter, Transliteration: ethnos, Phonetic Spelling: (eth'-nos), Short Definition: a race, people, the Gentiles, Definition: a race, people, nation; the nations, heathen world, Gentiles.

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

 
Dec 12, 2013
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More laws and condemnation from the lawyers and Pharisees....Jesus went after the SHEEP that went astray and did he not say the lost sheep of the house of Israel...SONS ARE SHEEP regardless of their level of faithfulness.....you cafe blend gospel is contrary and blinds you to the truth!
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
More laws and condemnation from the lawyers and Pharisees....Jesus went after the SHEEP that went astray and did he not say the lost sheep of the house of Israel...SONS ARE SHEEP regardless of their level of faithfulness.....you cafe blend gospel is contrary and blinds you to the truth!
That post above was all Scripture, if you have a problem with it I don't think I am the one that you need to have a talk with.

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."


John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”


John 14:23-24, "יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”
 
Dec 12, 2013
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That post above was all Scripture, if you have a problem with it I don't think I am the one that you need to have a talk with.

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."


John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”


John 14:23-24, "יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”
No....actually your first statement was a bias false opinion.....try again
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Amen bro. And I see there that Jesus was seeking genuine faith through a genuine obedience. Just like the rich fellow, many so-called believers rejects the laws and commands of God because they could not submit to them because of their greed, selfish desires and pride, they walk away from God

New International Version 1984 2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

BUT "WITH" GOD NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE.

ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T HAVE LOVE AND ARE NOT WALKING WITH GOD WILL REJECT THE POSSIBILITY OF ALL THINGS DONE WITH GOD..

WE ARE HIS FELLOW WORKER.
Evening bro.
Do you think Jesus seeking obedience to show genuine faith, or the other way around?

I see where you are coming from.


Matthew 19:21


21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

I see it this way.


Jesus says go do then ends with "Follow me"

Yet we see he does not want to follow Jesus, therefore not willing to obey.
If he was willing to follow Jesus then he would obey.
To follow us the believe in him and trust in him.

Are we saying the same here?
Is it genuine faith that leads to genuine obedience?

I would say though that growing in obedience does actually increase our faith.
That's been my experience in life.

We can do all things in Christ.
But I would say that when we first come to Jesus we can't do all things in him.
But when we learn to wait in him and with him we start to do more.

Like a baby starting to learn to walk.

I don't know if you have kids.
I have 4 (my wife would say 5, me being the 5th) but with our kids at some point when the started to walk we would hold our hands out.
We had to teach them to walk to start off with.

Encouraging them to walk. We would sit close at first, let them walk then pick them up when they fell, then we got to the stage when they could walk with us.

I know the walking example is not about obedience, but it's about trusting.
As we trust in God we take steps, steps forward and sometimes back.
But as we we trust, the steps forward are bigger than the steps backwards.

Does that make sense?

God bless you mate
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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The sheep that follow and serve are His sons/daughters:

John/Yahanan 10:27-30, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; neither will any man snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who gave them to Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand: I and My Father are in accord."
No....actually your first statement was a bias false opinion.....try again
BAIS! False! LOL!!!! you love straining at gnats.... Yah wants us to do His will.

So The sheep that follow and serve are not? His sons/daughters

John 12:25-26, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. He who loves his life shall lose it, and he who hates his life in this world shall preserve it for everlasting life." Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.”


Luke 8:21, “And He answering, said to them, “My mother and My brothers are those who are hearing the Word of Yah and doing it.”



Matthew 12:50, “For whoever does the desire of My Father who is in the heavens is My brother and sister and mother.”





John/Yahanan 15:16, "Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you."
 
Dec 12, 2013
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BAIS! False! LOL!!!! you love straining at gnats.... Yah wants us to do His will.

So The sheep that follow and serve are not? His sons/daughters

John 12:25-26, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. He who loves his life shall lose it, and he who hates his life in this world shall preserve it for everlasting life." Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.”


Luke 8:21, “And He answering, said to them, “My mother and My brothers are those who are hearing the Word of Yah and doing it.”



Matthew 12:50, “For whoever does the desire of My Father who is in the heavens is My brother and sister and mother.”





John/Yahanan 15:16, "Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you."
Keep dreaming and this is a fact->>>A SON IS A SHEEP IN THE FOLD OF THE SHEPHERD.....your qualification found in your bias false opinion does not make the cut....I suggest study and honesty........
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,022
4,441
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BAIS! False! LOL!!!! you love straining at gnats.... Yah wants us to do His will.

So The sheep that follow and serve are not? His sons/daughters

John 12:25-26, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. He who loves his life shall lose it, and he who hates his life in this world shall preserve it for everlasting life." Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.”


Luke 8:21, “And He answering, said to them, “My mother and My brothers are those who are hearing the Word of Yah and doing it.”



Matthew 12:50, “For whoever does the desire of My Father who is in the heavens is My brother and sister and mother.”





John/Yahanan 15:16, "Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you."
I think you are missing DC's point. Yes the sheep (the flock of Jesus will follow) but also those in the flock will go astray.

What is the will of Yah?? As you ask.

Luke 15:4-7


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.


You say

[FONT=&quot]John/Yahanan 10:27-30, "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life[/FONT][FONT=&quot], and they will never perish; neither will any man snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who gave them to Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand: I and My Father are in accord."[/FONT]
His would you reconcile that with the verses in Luke?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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I think you are missing DC's point. Yes the sheep (the flock of Jesus will follow) but also those in the flock will go astray.

What is the will of Yah?? As you ask.

Luke 15:4-7


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.


You say



His would you reconcile that with the verses in Luke?
ok I would have to specify loyal sheep. Just as this below is a parable, the one sheep going astry and being found is a parable. If the sheep returns that sheep is still a loyal sheep.

Mat 25:31-46, “And when the Son of Aḏam comes in His esteem, and all the set-apart messengers with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His esteem. And all the nations shall be gathered before Him, and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats. And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the Sovereign shall say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the reign prepared for you from the foundation of the world for I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me. Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry and we fed You, or thirsty and gave You to drink? And when did we see You a stranger and took You in, or naked and clothed You? And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and we came to You? And the Sovereign shall answer and say to them, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me. He shall then also say to those on the left hand, ‘Go away from Me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his messengers for I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, was naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me. Then they also shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not serve You? Then He shall answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.”

it is splitting hairs as the sheep went astray and yet returned in the parable you mentioned, still His sheep.

My7 point is rather that sheep, sons, daughters etc do His will rather than fopcusing on what exactly name we use, His will is the deciding factor.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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None of us are perfect yet we should o His will and unge others to do His will, I want to self reflect and call upon all here to do the same, we need to do His will. I want to more than I do.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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ok I would have to specify loyal sheep. Just as this below is a parable, the one sheep going astry and being found is a parable. If the sheep returns that sheep is still a loyal sheep.

Mat 25:31-46, “And when the Son of Aḏam comes in His esteem, and all the set-apart messengers with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His esteem. And all the nations shall be gathered before Him, and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats. And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the Sovereign shall say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the reign prepared for you from the foundation of the world for I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me. Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry and we fed You, or thirsty and gave You to drink? And when did we see You a stranger and took You in, or naked and clothed You? And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and we came to You? And the Sovereign shall answer and say to them, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me. He shall then also say to those on the left hand, ‘Go away from Me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his messengers for I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, was naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me. Then they also shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not serve You? Then He shall answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.”

it is splitting hairs as the sheep went astray and yet returned in the parable you mentioned, still His sheep.

My7 point is rather that sheep, sons, daughters etc do His will rather than fopcusing on what exactly name we use, His will is the deciding factor.
But who returns the sheep?
He does not turn back himself.
Your verses posted above have no relevance to the lost sheep.
Because if Jesus seeks out the lost sheep, they are sheep sat at his right hand.
Not goats.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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None of us are perfect yet we should o His will and unge others to do His will, I want to self reflect and call upon all here to do the same, we need to do His will. I want to more than I do.
That's what we all want. Can you say that you say anyone here saying anything different.

H I love your honesty and you integrity to be like Jesus.
I would say most in this thread have it as well
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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But who returns the sheep?
He does not turn back himself.
Your verses posted above have no relevance to the lost sheep.
Because if Jesus seeks out the lost sheep, they are sheep sat at his right hand.
Not goats.
we all know when we go astray He is patient continualy showing us things in our lives to call us back to Him. It is His patience and guidance, but also our choice. Everyday we have a choice if we weant to follow Him or our own desire. All the glory to Him but the choice is ours. I think eople remove themselves from the "choice" thought to make it like they are not responsibe for anything including going astray. Will we hear the call, will we chosse His guidance?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Joshua 24:15, “And if it seems evil in your eyes to serve [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], choose for yourselves this day whom you are going to serve, whether the mighty ones which your fathers served that were beyond the River, or the mighty ones of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But I and my house, we serve [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”

John 7:17, “If anyone chooses to do His desire, he shall know concerning the teaching, whether it is from YHWH, or whether I speak from Myself.”

chooses” is word #G2309 θέλω thelo (the'-lō) v., ἐθέλω ethelo (e-the'-lō) , 1. to determine, i.e. choose or prefer., 2. (by implication) to wish, i.e. be inclined to., 3. (sometimes adverbially) gladly., 4. (impersonally for the future tense) to be about to., 5. (by Hebraism) to delight in., {literally or figuratively; as an active option from subjective impulse; whereas G1014 properly denotes rather a passive acquiescence in objective considerations}, [apparently strengthened from the alternate form of G138], KJV: desire, be disposed (forward), intend, list, love, mean, please, have rather, (be) will (have, -ling, - ling(-ly)) , Root(s): G138, Compare: G140, G1014
[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 11:24-27, “By belief, Mosheh, having become great, refused to be called the son of the daughter of Pharaoh, choosing rather to be afflicted with the people of Yah than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a time, deeming the reproach of Messiah greater riches than the treasures in Mitsrayim, for he was looking to the reward. By belief, he left Mitsrayim, not fearing the wrath of the sovereign, for he was steadfast, as seeing Him who is invisible.”

1 Corinthians 10:13, "No trial has overtaken you except such as is common to man, and YHWH is trustworthy, who shall not allow you to be tried beyond what you are able, but with the trial shall also make the way of escape, enabling you to bear it."
[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 2:16-17, “And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mighty commanded the man, saying, “Eat of every tree of the garden, but do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for in the day that you eat of it you shall certainly die.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 4:7, “If you do right, will it not be accepted? If you don’t do right, sin crouches at the door. Its desire is for you, but you are to rule over it.”

Deuteronomy 30:19-20, “I have called the heavens and the earth as witnesses today against you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Therefore you shall choose life, so that you live, both you and your seed, to love
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Strength, to obey His voice, and to cling to Him – for He is your life and the length of your days – to dwell in the land which [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]swore to your fathers, to Aḇraham, to Yitsḥaq, and to Ya‛aqoḇ, to give them.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
Psalm 9:7-8, “But
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]abides forever, He is preparing His throne for judgment. And He judges the world in righteousness, He judges the peoples in straightness.”

Malachi 3:16-18, “Then those who reverenced
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]spoke often one to another, and [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]paid attention and heard them; and a Book of Remembrance was written in His presence of those who gave reverence to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and who thought upon His Name; And they will be Mine! says [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of hosts. In that day when I make up My jewels I will spare them, as a man spares his own son who serves him. Then you will return, and again discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him who serves[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and him who does not serve Him.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,022
4,441
113
we all know when we go astray He is patient continualy showing us things in our lives to call us back to Him. It is His patience and guidance, but also our choice. Everyday we have a choice if we weant to follow Him or our own desire. All the glory to Him but the choice is ours. I think eople remove themselves from the "choice" thought to make it like they are not responsibe for anything including going astray. Will we hear the call, will we chosse His guidance?
Yes we do and at times get stuck in the mud. So when he finds us we say "Baah Baah (sheep talk) please help me.

You have not answered the question?

Who returns the sheep on his shoulders?

You or me or Jesus

Once again your Bible verses quoted are not relevant to the question in hand.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Yes we do and at times get stuck in the mud. So when he finds us we say "Baah Baah (sheep talk) please help me.

You have not answered the question?

Who returns the sheep on his shoulders?

You or me or Jesus

Once again your Bible verses quoted are not relevant to the question in hand.
Amen and I am fairly confident that David prayed for God to pull him up our of the mirery pit of clay......Jesus is the good shepherd and will leave the 99 to find the one that wondered away.....
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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I think eople remove themselves from the "choice" thought to make it like they are not responsibe for anything including going astray. Will we hear the call, will we chosse His guidance?
Judgemental to the core.
I'm glad that it wasn't you counseling me when I went astray when I could not cope with the sexual abuse my so called Christan foster dad was inflicting on me when I was 15.

Wake up, smell the coffee and get your backside in the real world.
 
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BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Amen and I am fairly confident that David prayed for God to pull him up our of the mirery pit of clay......Jesus is the good shepherd and will leave the 99 to find the one that wondered away.....
Of course he did.
The reality of life at its worst.

Some on this thread do not see it.

They live in their little bubble.

Makes my blood boil.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Of course he did.
The reality of life at its worst.

Some on this thread do not see it.

They live in their little bubble.

Makes my blood boil.
Same here.....makes me hot and sick.......all self righteous, high and mighty with no ability to admit the truth.....
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Yes we do and at times get stuck in the mud. So when he finds us we say "Baah Baah (sheep talk) please help me.

You have not answered the question?

Who returns the sheep on his shoulders?

You or me or Jesus

Once again your Bible verses quoted are not relevant to the question in hand.
I did answer:

It is His patience and guidance,
but also our choice.
It is Him but people can reject Him and go their own way.

What man did Yah forcefully make follow Him and save them forcefull against their will and choice? None. Not one.
His work and His glory, our choice.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Judgemental to the core.
I'm glad that it wasn't you counseling me when I went astray when I could not cope with the sexual abuse my so called Christan foster dad was inflicting on me when I was 15.

Wake up, smell the coffee and get your backside in the real world.
Abuse in any form is terrible, however there are people that have it and ahve had it worse than you or I have ever had it and some of these people still follow Him. This is not judgmental to the core, this is reality.