Not By Works

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Timothy 2:21, "If, then, anyone cleanses himself from these matters, he shall be a vessel unto value, having been set apart, of good use to the Master, having been prepared for every right work."

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 37:27-31, "Turn away from evil, and do right; And dwell forever. For [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]loves right-ruling, And does not forsake His lovingly-committed ones; They shall be guarded forever, But the seed of the wrongdoers is cut off. The righteous shall inherit the earth, And dwell in it forever. The mouth of the righteous speaks wisdom, And his tongue talks of right-ruling. The Torah of his Mighty One is in his heart; His steps do not slide.”[/FONT]

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[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Corinthians 1:22, “who also sealed us, and gave the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge."[/FONT] [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Timothy 2:19, "However, the solid foundation of Yah stands firm, having this seal*, “ [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]knows those who are His, Let everyone who names the Name of Messiah turn away from unrighteousness.”

Strong's Concordance *"seal"is word #G4973 - sphragis: a seal, a signet, Original Word: σφραγίς, ῖδος, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: sphragis, Phonetic Spelling: (sfrag-ece'), Short Definition: a signet-ring, impression of a seal, the proof, Definition: a seal, signet ring, the impression of a seal, that which the seal attests, the proof.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The word “unrighteousness” is word #G93 ἀδικία – adikia, ad-ee-kee'-ah, (legal) injustice (properly the quality, by implication the act); moral wrongfulness (of charter, life or act):—iniquity, unjust, unrighteousness, wrong.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death."[/FONT]​

 

[Ralph-]

Underline in quotes is by me to point out what we'e talking about here.

who said the prodigal son had no works? How long was the prodigal son a son before he tried to live on his own? (I was one for 5 years. Even after all my works, if I died in that time would I be lost>

1 cor 3 is talking to babes in christ. They are lost? According to paul they once were living in sin, now they are not ( 1 cor 6) is that not a work? THEY SHOWED CHANGED LIVES..

1 cor 5. That same person in 2 cor showed he repented.

show where it states he repented...you can't and NONE of my cited examples had works that were righteous....you can push your lie all day and it will not make it right.

So, eternally-gratefull, are you going to set dcontroversial straight? He says the examples from the Bible he cited didn't have works and are saved. And because they had no works and are saved we also can have no works and we will be saved when Jesus comes back too. You say they DID have works because that's what saved people have, which is what I've been saying but then you argue with me that I'm trying to save myself by works by believing that.

So, what are you going to do? Are you going to show him his error and explain how unchanged people are not saved people? Or are you going to change what you have said and agree with him that you can be unchanged and saved (you said saved people will have works). And if you stick with your stance that saved people are changed people will you then excuse yourself from being a self righteous works salvationist Pharisee for believing that while condemning me as one for believing what you believe?

 

[dcontroversal]

Underline in quotes is by me to point out what we'e talking about here.
So, eternally-gratefull, are you going to set dcontroversial straight? He says the examples from the Bible he cited didn't have works and are saved. And because they had no works and are saved we also can have no works and we will be saved when Jesus comes back too. You say they DID have works because that's what saved people have, which is what I've been saying but then you argue with me that I'm trying to save myself by works by believing that.

So, what are you going to do? Are you going to show him his error and explain how unchanged people are not saved people? Or are you going to change what you have said and agree with him that you can be unchanged and saved (you said saved people will have works). And if you stick with your stance that saved people are changed people will you then excuse yourself from being a self righteous works salvationist Pharisee for believing that while condemning me as one for believing what you believe?

Again, you must be dense....I have stated clearly that ALL SAVED HAVE ALREADY WORKED THE WORK OF THE HEAVENLY FATHER AND MY CITED EXAMPLES WERE CORRECT...what works did the prodigal have, what works did the thief have, what works are identified as wood, hay and stubble? You know why most reject your drivel Fran...because you lie, embellish, misrepresent what is actually said and twist context so far out of context to make your invalid points....and then claim to be rightous...no wonder MOST Hammer you....very very deceptive in how you present yourself....and you can forget your deceptive accisations...EG knows I do not push the lies you accuse of!!

 

[mcubed]

Is believing a work? It takes the mind, will and emotions (the soul).... Or are works countable actions like cogs, you can load them into a database? Can we see it and judge it or only G-d? ... maybe?

I hope I get to judge you and not just G-d sooooo much fun.....

 

[stillness]

Underline in quotes is by me to point out what we'e talking about here.
So, eternally-gratefull, are you going to set dcontroversial straight? He says the examples from the Bible he cited didn't have works and are saved. And because they had no works and are saved we also can have no works and we will be saved when Jesus comes back too. You say they DID have works because that's what saved people have, which is what I've been saying but then you argue with me that I'm trying to save myself by works by believing that.

So, what are you going to do? Are you going to show him his error and explain how unchanged people are not saved people? Or are you going to change what you have said and agree with him that you can be unchanged and saved (you said saved people will have works). And if you stick with your stance that saved people are changed people will you then excuse yourself from being a self righteous works salvationist Pharisee for believing that while condemning me as one for believing what you believe?

In 1 John there are 3 groups of people, only the Last of the 3 groups are referred as "strong and know the word of God (the word of God remains in you) and have overcome the evil one, these have part in the first resurrection, "These live and reign with Christ for a thousand years, the rest of the dead are not raised until the thousand years are fulfilled."

To find a verse copy the verse on google like "strong and know the word of God and have overcome the evil one."
Evidently not all believers overcome the world. "Some will be saved but as through fire and will lose their reward."

 

[dcontroversal]

Is believing a work? It takes the mind, will and emotions (the soul).... Or are works countable actions like cogs, you can load them into a database? Can we see it and judge it or only G-d? ... maybe?

I hope I get to judge you and not just G-d sooooo much fun.....

I have been on here for what 4 plus years....and have been consistent....

Faith alone saves eternally as well as justifies, sanctifies and seals in Christ

Any work or fruit is a by prodjuct of the faith and salvation one already possesses in Christ and done by Christ in us and through us as a living sacrifice....exactly why works do not save or keep saved and why ALL GLORY GOES TO GOD THROUGH CHRIST....

ALSO...

the saved will have or can have the following...

Faithful works of righteousness <--gold, silver and precious stones

Unfaithful fleshly works of wood, hay and stubble

Yet salvation is eternal and secure

 

[stillness]

Is believing a work?

Good question, Believing: "Faith that works by Love."
What is that work in the middle?
"Work our your own salvation with fear and trembling for it is God that works in you both to will and do His good pleasure."
"This is the work of God that you believe on Him whom He has sent."
"I can do nothing of myself but what I see the Father doing."

 

[dcontroversal]

Working out salvation is not working for salvation....it means to fit out your salvation, grow, mature, bear fruit, come to full age.....

 

[stillness]

Working out salvation is not working for salvation....it means to fit out your salvation, grow, mature, bear fruit, come to full age.....

I agree with you and though that was clear, but yes we should specify the obvious, in a court of Grace: God's influence.
Fear of God: Admiration worship, coming into agreement with Him.

 

[Endoscopy]

Awesome! Wow ... that means we can ELIMINATE most versions of the bible, which have been CORRUPTED because of REMOVAL of words from scripture!


1 John 5:7 For there are three that testify:


"King James Bible
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."


The blue words above are hyperlinks!

ROFL
You are hilarious.
Please explain how words have been removed from Bible. There are Old Testament Hebrew texts and the New Testament Greek texts that have thousands of fragments and full documents along with letters quoting the New Testament. Textus Receptus is a Greek New Testament dating to 400 AD. There is way more ancient texts and fragments of the Bible than any other ancient document. All demonstrate the extreme accuracy of the Bible being 100% complete and accurate. While some discrepancies exist they almost all are spelling with a very few having added words that don't make any difference in the meaning. With all of the texts it has been easy for scholars to accurately have the real original words.

There is only one version of the original language texts.

Our Bibles are translations of the original language documents.

With this information please explain how words were lost??

 

[Endoscopy]

There seems to be wolves in sheep's clothing among us. As should be expected!

 

[AbigailZeke]

Just passing through...

"We did not become righteous by doing good; we received righteousness as a gift. This means that as believers in Christ we cannot lose our righteousness even when we fail. In fact, it is His righteousness that can help us up when we fail! This is so important for you to know because like it or not, you will fail. You will fall short. And if you are not established in your righteousness in Christ, the devil will accuse you and make you think that you don't deserve to be healed, that you are not qualified to receive His supply and that you should be condemned to live a defeated life filled with stress, worries and anxieties."

Excerpt from a book I'm reading.

 

[preacher4truth]

Again, you must be dense....I have stated clearly that ALL SAVED HAVE ALREADY WORKED THE WORK OF THE HEAVENLY FATHER AND MY CITED EXAMPLES WERE CORRECT...what works did the prodigal have, what works did the thief have, what works are identified as wood, hay and stubble? You know why most reject your drivel Fran...because you lie, embellish, misrepresent what is actually said and twist context so far out of context to make your invalid points....and then claim to be rightous...no wonder MOST Hammer you....very very deceptive in how you present yourself....and you can forget your deceptive accisations...EG knows I do not push the lies you accuse of!!

Oh, so this is FranC. Now I get it. Anyhow, Merry Christmas bro!

 

[preacher4truth]

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

TO ALL IN THIS THREAD AND TO ALL ON CC!

 

[Ralph-]

Again, you must be dense....I have stated clearly that ALL SAVED HAVE ALREADY WORKED THE WORK OF THE HEAVENLY FATHER AND MY CITED EXAMPLES WERE CORRECT...what works did the prodigal have, what works did the thief have, what works are identified as wood, hay and stubble?

Maybe you're the one who's dense. I already answered this in this post http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/146296-not-works-2338.html#post3393081 .

The point you're not talking about is you say the prodigal son, the thief on the cross, the people who have no reward, and the Corinthian fornicator did not have works but are saved anyway since they did the work of believing, and that they prove you do not have to have works following your believing, just the work of believing to be saved when Jesus comes back. But John says in 1 John 3:4-10 that the person who does not have actual visible works is not born again. So how can you say people who have no works have really already worked the work of the heavenly Father by believing and are saved? According to John if they don't that shows them to be of the devil and not born again.

Don't just blow this off by restating your argument. Show us how your argument is right, and that all you have to do is the work of believing to be saved and you don't have to have works of righteousness after that to be saved when Jesus comes back, because you are already saved by the believing alone, even though John says the person who has no works of righteousness is not born again and is a child of the devil.

 

[Ralph-]

What's interesting is how people in this thread say the true believer will have works and agree with John. But then they will roast anybody who says what John says that the person who does not have works following is not born again and does not know him.

 

[Ralph-]

Oh, so this is FranC. Now I get it. Anyhow, Merry Christmas bro!

It was fun for a while, but now it's annoying. I am not Fran.

Okay, that's out of the way. Now all of you can go back to hating and despising and beating up those of us who agree with Paul and James and John that the person who lives like the devil belongs to the devil and is not born again.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here, your beef is with dcontroversial. Here's what he has been saying. He says you will be saved if you do not have works when Jesus comes back.

Can someone help Ralph here?He does not seem to want to listen.

DC said ALL believers have worked the works of the father, That all those people had works. And that we are not saved by works. At NO TIME did he say they would not have works and get to heaven, That is RALPHS words, not DC’s

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh, and by the way, no. We were talking about having no works when Jesus comes back. Read our posts.

So your talking about legalism. That a person can be saved, Have Gods spirit. Have works, and because they did not maintain works. They have lost salvation.

So you can now STOP telling us you do not teach justification by works.

A person who is saved is saved, Jesus said they will never be lost. Will never be let go of. Will be raised not he last day, HAS eternal life. And will never die.

You think this is not true. Thats on you my friend.