Not By Works

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DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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Yes, that is correct.
So God himself through Son the two as one in unison did the work for us, Since no one could ever do it perfectly

In this done work we get to do it too, not by us by Son's done work for us. This is a gift given and to remain a gift, it can not have any work of self ever to remain a gift.

So Father does not tell you to do it, he just simply gave it

Colossians 1:21-23Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

23 if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

So see it as it is, God did for you, you, you and all the world to turn to him in belief to this great mystery hidden from the foundation of this world we are in.

Rest, not the definition of 5this world, God definition

Hebrews 4:9-11Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

So if anyone is listening and takes all this to Father in prayer will hear from the source directly and have the truth over the error of first-born flesh and blood
Before commenting on your post, are you saying that the commands mentioned in the above verses are to be fulfilled by God and not us?
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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James 2:14, “My brothers, what use is it for anyone to say he has "belief" but does not have works? This "belief" is unable to save him.”

Hi Shamah, I cannot find one bible translation that uses the word, "belief" as is in your rendering of James2:14. Of the ten bibles that I looked at every bible uses the word "faith" in every translation, belief and faith are not synonymous. You should rewrite your bible verse James2:14 to read "faith" and not "belief"

James2:14

"What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have "faith" but has no deeds? Can such "faith" save them?"

"Faith", is the correct translation in every bible that I could find.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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There are tons of Scripture as i have posted stating we are saved by belief alone.
You have posted tons of scripture that state we are saved by belief alone??

Could you please repost a few of them, I have my highlighter ready.

I may have to rethink my views on faith only regeneration theology.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
1,689
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Hi Shamah, I cannot find one bible translation that uses the word, "belief" as is in your rendering of James2:14. Of the ten bibles that I looked at every bible uses the word "faith" in every translation, belief and faith are not synonymous. You should rewrite your bible verse James2:14 to read "faith" and not "belief"

James2:14

"What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have "faith" but has no deeds? Can such "faith" save them?"

"Faith", is the correct translation in every bible that I could find.
In the Konie Greek:

4102. pistis
pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)

Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.
 

Ralph-

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
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So why did paul say if your gonna be circumcised your indebted to the whole law?
Because his audience was trying to be JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW.
Paul circumcised Timothy. If just being circumcised in and of itself means you now must keep the entire law, perfectly, or else be accursed why would Paul do that Timothy his son in the faith?



Why did paul sayif you add circumcision, your teaching a different gospel?
Because he was talking about being circumcised IN ORDER TO BE JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW.

The prohibition against the law is keeping the law IN ORDER TO BE JUSTIFIED, not against keeping the law.
We don't know this because we have been taught that Paul said keeping the law is what you must not do. Which is quite ridiculous when you see that he himself kept the law.
 
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Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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[/B][/COLOR]Because his audience was trying to be JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW.
Paul circumcised Timothy. If just being circumcised in and of itself means you now have to keep the entire law, perfectly, or else be accursed why would Paul do that Timothy his son in the faith?

Why did paul sayif you add circumcision, your teaching a different gospel?
Because he was talking about being circumcised IN ORDER TO BE JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW.


The prohibition against the law is keeping the law IN ORDER TO BE JUSTIFIED, not against keeping the law.
We don't know this because we have been taught that Paul said keeping the law is what you must not do. Which is quite ridiculous when you see that he himself kept the law.[/QUOTE]


Acts 16:1-3, “1 Paul came also to Derbe and to Lystra. And a disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a Jewish woman who was a believer, but his father was a Greek, 2 and he was well spoken of by the brethren who were in Lystra and Iconium. 3 Paul wanted this man to go with him; and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in those parts, for they all knew that his father was a Greek.”



Galatians 5:2, Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.”


Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."


Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."



Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."


 
Dec 28, 2016
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Hi Shamah, I cannot find one bible translation that uses the word, "belief" as is in your rendering of James2:14. Of the ten bibles that I looked at every bible uses the word "faith" in every translation, belief and faith are not synonymous. You should rewrite your bible verse James2:14 to read "faith" and not "belief"

James2:14

"What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have "faith" but has no deeds? Can such "faith" save them?"

"Faith", is the correct translation in every bible that I could find.
Hizzie/Sham takes liberty with God's Word and changes words at will. I've witnessed it time and again. That and his superfluous use of God's name over and over seems to mitigate the holiness and sacredness imho. :(
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,004
649
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In the Konie Greek:

4102. pistis
pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)

Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.
Apparently every bible translator got it wrong but you have the correct translation. Makes no sense that every bible that you pick up to read is translated, "faith" but the word you choose to use is the word "belief", more reasons why I stopped reading your posts. Thank you.
 

Ralph-

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
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Apparently, you have no idea what it means to be led of Him.

Be filled with His Spirit. Walk as He walked. That's obedience.
Do you see the contradiction in what you say? If he was not led of Him he would not be walking as He walked.

Self righteousness has a distinct quality about it........DISOBEDIENCE, LAWLESSNESS.

By the very fact that self righteousness means not operating in the Spirit, but in oneself instead, the effort is doomed to failure and you will not be obedient. The one who is obedient is showing that is led of Him, not led of self.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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Apparently every bible translator got it wrong but you have the correct translation. Makes no sense that every bible that you pick up to read is translated, "faith" but the word you choose to use is the word "belief", more reasons why I stopped reading your posts. Thank you.
In the konie Greek it is:

4102. pistis
pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

also I never said it had to be translated this or that, I beleive belief is a better translation considering our medern view of the words belief and faith, the true meaning o "faith" in the OT was :

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Habakkuk 2:4, "Behold the proud, his soul is not right in him; but the just will live by faith."[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]faith” is word #H530 [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]אֱמוּנָה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]'emuwnah (em-oo-naw') n-f., [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]אֱמֻנָה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]'emunah (em-oo-naw') [shortened], 1. (literally) firmness., 2. (figuratively) security., 3. (morally) fidelity.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][feminine of H529], KJV: faith(-ful, -ly, -ness, (man)), set office, stability, steady, truly, truth, verily. , Root(s): H529

faith” is word #H530 Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) 1) firmness, fidelity, steadfastness, steadiness

faith” #H530 Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
Feminine of H0529; literally firmness; figuratively security; moral fidelity:—faith (-ful, -ly, -ness, [man]), set office, stability, steady, truly, truth, verily.
[/FONT]

in modern time when one says "my girlfriend is faithful" it does not mean she blieves me, it means she is loyal....


allpy this to the word, words have to be translated from their original language...
 

stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
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And if Jesus were not my High Priest, I would give them to Him. :)
am not disagreeing that the priesthood hasn't changed. Am thankful it has. I don't like killing any animal.

But, the inheritance He left is Holy Spirit.
 

stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
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In the konie Greek it is:

4102. pistis
pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

also I never said it had to be translated this or that, I beleive belief is a better translation considering our medern view of the words belief and faith, the true meaning o "faith" in the OT was :

Habakkuk 2:4, "Behold the proud, his soul is not right in him; but the just will live by faith."


faith” is word #H530 אֱמוּנָה 'emuwnah (em-oo-naw') n-f., אֱמֻנָה 'emunah (em-oo-naw') [shortened], 1. (literally) firmness., 2. (figuratively) security., 3. (morally) fidelity.
[feminine of H529], KJV: faith(-ful, -ly, -ness, (man)), set office, stability, steady, truly, truth, verily. , Root(s): H529

faith” is word #H530 Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) 1) firmness, fidelity, steadfastness, steadiness

faith” #H530 Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
Feminine of H0529; literally firmness; figuratively security; moral fidelity:—faith (-ful, -ly, -ness, [man]), set office, stability, steady, truly, truth, verily.


in modern time when one says "my girlfriend is faithful" it does not mean she blieves me, it means she is loyal....


allpy this to the word, words have to be translated from their original language...
The complete Jewish Bible says faith too.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
4,759
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You have posted tons of scripture that state we are saved by belief alone??

Could you please repost a few of them, I have my highlighter ready.

I may have to rethink my views on faith only regeneration theology.
Aren't we called believers? For starters:

Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 

Ralph-

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
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I think you are a legalistic that confuses many with your legalistic wrong ideas about the body of Christ.
Should I think you 'a legalistic' because you think we should keep the command to not steal or commit adultery?
 

stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Studyman is by no means "the only one who thinks" this way. Count me in also as a believer that Abraham was blessed because of his obedience. Was Abraham perfect, of course not. But when commanded to act he did. It was because of his action that he was blessed not his belief in the command.

It is people like you who are neck deep into faith alone regeneration theology who are blind to the very flow and form of the scriptures. You are butchering the word "faith" into a meaningless expression of belief. In other words, faith without action is simply mental assent. Jesus exposed this nonsense of faith without action in the parable of the 2 sons, Matthew 21: 28-32.

Question: Which son did the will of the father? Answer: Obviously the one that did the will of the father.

There is no reality in faith alone regeneration theology. It may help some to sleep at night but the spirit filled believer knows better.
Faith alone in the blood sacrifice of Jesus. What would you add? Did you make that phrase up? It's a new one to me.
 

stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Should I think you 'a legalistic' because you think we should keep the command to not steal or commit adultery?
I just came online. Will get to you, but am trying to figure out who you are incensed for. Hiz or studyman? Or yourself?
 

stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
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I want to agree with and add to Abraham was found right and righteous because his faith and his works:

FAITH:


Genesis 15:6, "And he believed in יהוה, and He reckoned it to him for righteousness.”


Genesis 15:4-6, "And see, the word of יהוה came to him, saying, “This one is not your heir, but he who comes from your own body is your heir. And He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward the heavens, and count the stars if you are able to count them.” And He said to him, “So are your seed. And he believed in יהוה, and He reckoned it to him for righteousness."


WORKS:


Genesis 26:5, “Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my Laws.”


FAITH + WORKS:


James 2:21-22, “Was not Aḇraham our father declared right by works when he offered Yitsḥaq his son on the altar? Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?”


FAITH + WORKS:


Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”


By belief, Aḇraham obeyed


Hebrews 11
11:8, "By belief, Aḇraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he was about to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.
11:9, "By belief, he sojourned in the land of promise as a stranger, dwelling in tents with Yitsḥaq and Ya‛aqoḇ, the heirs with him of the same promise,"
11:10, "for he was looking for the city having foundations, whose builder and maker is Yah.
11:17, "By belief, Aḇraham, when he was tried, offered up Yitsḥaq, and he who had received the promises offered up his only brought-forth son,
Hiz, did you know that Abraham had a vision of the sacrificed Son when he heard God speak? If you do a Word study you will see it.

There was a purpose for God in asking Abraham to do this and it was to reveal to him the promised Messiah. Faith has rewards.
And the difference between the inheritance of physical Israel is natural. Land. Still connected to the soulish realm. Has no internal change that would take one into heaven with Father. Response to the soulish realm is'through the 5 senses. And laws to control mans behaviour.

Spiritual Israel- inheritance is the Spirit. Connected to God in the heavens for Godbis Spirit, and is through the obedience of one man. Jesus Messiah. There is one law that all men must obey to be connected to Father through Jesus, and is found here:

Act 17:29 So if we are God's children, we shouldn't think that the divine being is like gold, silver, or stone, or is an image carved by humans using their own imagination and skill.


Act 17:30 Though God has overlooked those times of ignorance, he now commands everyone everywhere to repent,


Act 17:31 because he has set a day when he is going to judge the world with justice through a man whom he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead."

Repentance brings conversion, which brings the divine nature of God, and we attend the reading of the will that Jesus left behind, and see it is Holy Spirit that we inherit, by reading the Word and Holy Spirit teaching.


1Co 2:6 However, when we are among mature people, we do speak a message of wisdom, but not the wisdom of this world or of the rulers of this world, who are passing off the scene.


1Co 2:7 Instead, we speak about God's wisdom in a hidden secret, which God destined before the world began for our glory.


1Co 2:8 None of the rulers of this world understood it, because if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


1Co 2:9 But as it is written, "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined the things that God has prepared for those who love him."


1Co 2:10 But God has revealed those things to us by his Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the deep things of God.


1Co 2:11 Is there anyone who can understand his own thoughts except his own inner spirit? In the same way, no one can know the thoughts of God except God's Spirit.


1Co 2:12 Now, we have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who comes from God, so that we can understand the things that were freely given to us by God.

So now we are learning to walk in what we are given freely. Being now a spiritual man/woman, already connected to heaven, and work out of this connection of having entered His rest, His victory over all the enemy, and then in Him, we being clothed with Him, His Presence, we work as we are led.







 

Ralph-

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
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I just came online. Will get to you, but am trying to figure out who you are incensed for. Hiz or studyman? Or yourself?
Incensed? God as my witness I don't have an ounce of anger or rage toward anyone here.

I just want you to explain how thinking one must keep Sabbath, etc. is being legalistic, but thinking one must not murder, not steal, not commit adultery, etc. isn't.
 

stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Hiz, did you know that Abraham had a vision of the sacrificed Son when he heard God speak? If you do a Word study you will see it.

There was a purpose for God in asking Abraham to do this and it was to reveal to him the promised Messiah. Faith has rewards.
And the difference between the inheritance of physical Israel is natural. Land. Still connected to the soulish realm. Has no internal change that would take one into heaven with Father. Response to the soulish realm is'through the 5 senses. And laws to control mans behaviour.

Spiritual Israel- inheritance is the Spirit. Connected to God in the heavens for Godbis Spirit, and is through the obedience of one man. Jesus Messiah. There is one law that all men must obey to be connected to Father through Jesus, and is found here:

Act 17:29 So if we are God's children, we shouldn't think that the divine being is like gold, silver, or stone, or is an image carved by humans using their own imagination and skill.


Act 17:30 Though God has overlooked those times of ignorance, he now commands everyone everywhere to repent,


Act 17:31 because he has set a day when he is going to judge the world with justice through a man whom he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead."

Repentance brings conversion, which brings the divine nature of God, and we attend the reading of the will that Jesus left behind, and see it is Holy Spirit that we inherit, by reading the Word and Holy Spirit teaching.


1Co 2:6 However, when we are among mature people, we do speak a message of wisdom, but not the wisdom of this world or of the rulers of this world, who are passing off the scene.


1Co 2:7 Instead, we speak about God's wisdom in a hidden secret, which God destined before the world began for our glory.


1Co 2:8 None of the rulers of this world understood it, because if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


1Co 2:9 But as it is written, "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined the things that God has prepared for those who love him."


1Co 2:10 But God has revealed those things to us by his Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the deep things of God.


1Co 2:11 Is there anyone who can understand his own thoughts except his own inner spirit? In the same way, no one can know the thoughts of God except God's Spirit.


1Co 2:12 Now, we have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who comes from God, so that we can understand the things that were freely given to us by God.

So now we are learning to walk in what we are given freely. Being now a spiritual man/woman, already connected to heaven, and work out of this connection of having entered His rest, His victory over all the enemy, and then in Him, we being clothed with Him, His Presence, we work as we are led.







I had two interruptions and forgot to end with this point.

Disobedience and unbelief are synominous. (Sp) Obedience and belief is too. God is pleased by faith.


Heb 11:6 But without faith it isimpossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Increase comes from walking in the Spirit, who is our sanctification.

1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctificationof the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Is how we are kept. Being in Him, clothed in Him, walking in the Spirit is all of His grace. Obedience will be our state.


 

stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Do you see the contradiction in what you say? If he was not led of Him he would not be walking as He walked.

Self righteousness has a distinct quality about it........DISOBEDIENCE, LAWLESSNESS.

By the very fact that self righteousness means not operating in the Spirit, but in oneself instead, the effort is doomed to failure and you will not be obedient. The one who is obedient is showing that is led of Him, not led of self.
Self righteousness is defining itself. :) Trusting in self (works) as acceptable to God at the judgement seat of Christ. Which I think is when we die. But, obedience is belief, believing that God is and rewards....all through empowerment of Holy Spirit.

If you are referring to Hiz? He includes the law. Though he denies it. It's self evident. :)

Question ralph. Why did Jesus pour His blood on the mercy seat before Father?