Not By Works

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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Assurance that we are really saved comes from what we do, not from a doctrine about not being able to lose your salvation. You have to know you're really saved in the first place for that doctrine to mean anything. And the Bible says we know that we're really saved and ready to meet Jesus by our obedience to God's commands.


I don't care what people believe about once saved always saved being true or not. It doesn't matter because it does not take away the necessity for saved people to be obedient to God and walk as Jesus did.


"This is how we know we are in him:Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."-1 John 2:5-6


Once saved always saved does not matter. You can believe what you want about that. What is important is that you are living for God. John said that's how we know we are really saved. Hypocrites will not inherit the kingdom of God no matter what they believe about once saved always saved. Those who aren't being conformed to the image of God are not even born again to begin with for a once saved always saved argument to even matter.
2 Corinthians 5
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

My confidence in my salvation is from knowing what Scripture says concerning the believer. I labor not to know I am saved, but that I may be accepted of the Lord whether in this body or in His presence. Why? Because I my labor will be judged at the JSOC. Some may not have works acceptable to the Lord and those works will burn up in the fire. See 1 Corinthians 3.

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


 
Dec 12, 2013
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Agreed! Somehow these people believe God can forgive them of all their sins they committed leading up to salvation, but God will not forgive all their sins committed after salvation.

I was a sinner before, and I am a sinner now. I will always be a sinner here on earth, but praise the Lord I am found in the one who never sinned, Jesus Christ! That's the only hope I have.

AMEN brother....his GRACE out bounds our sin........the same GRACE that spared DAVID and gave us a wonderful picture of Jesus in the innocent son of David taking his place in death............
 
Feb 5, 2017
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The people who tend to remind me of Jesus, don't tend to claim anything, they are just a blessing to everyone. Maybe they are saved, but they don't shout about it.

Assurance that we are really saved comes from what we do, not from a doctrine about not being able to lose your salvation. You have to know you're really saved in the first place for that doctrine to mean anything. And the Bible says we know that we're really saved and ready to meet Jesus by our obedience to God's commands.


I don't care what people believe about once saved always saved being true or not. It doesn't matter because it does not take away the necessity for saved people to be obedient to God and walk as Jesus did.


"This is how we know we are in him:Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."-1 John 2:5-6


Once saved always saved does not matter. You can believe what you want about that. What is important is that you are living for God. John said that's how we know we are really saved. Hypocrites will not inherit the kingdom of God no matter what they believe about once saved always saved. Those who aren't being conformed to the image of God are not even born again to begin with for a once saved always saved argument to even matter.
 
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nope

my assurance comes from what He did

:)
Blessed assurance, Jesus is mine....oh what a foretaste of glory divine.......AMAZING GRACE how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me....I once was lost, but now and found...........
 
Dec 12, 2013
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The people who tend to remind me of Jesus, don't tend to claim anything, they are just a blessing to everyone. Maybe they are saved, but they don't shout about it.
Think about what you said........faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word...how shall they hear unless one be sent.....last time I checked we are to be prepared TO always give an answer of why we have hope and our feet shod with the GOSPEL.....

Why not attribute to the convo instead of making sly, flippant remarks that are meant to divided and strike in a very subtle way.
 
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But he didn't say that did he? Use your brain.

He is saying that salvation and works go together, as in, one who is saved does works, not to retain that salvation, not to make God happy. No, just that an outcome of salvation is doing works.

What is different about your life David, now you are saved? Try to let people know you, rather than speaking at people. If you want to inspire people here, inspire them with your examples. You don't seem to want to engage with people on their level, only engage with people who agree with you.

You have no challenge........the truth is simple.....You say you are not saved until the end when God sees your works.....The bible states that he who believes on the son is not condemned and God has SAVED (past tense) those who have believed (past Tense) on the SON......

You are false

The bible refutes you on so many levels.....Verb tense, context, verses, verbiage ALL contradict you dogma........and the funny thing (sic) is you exercise the same PRIDE the Pharisees exercised with their vanilla café blend dogma as well......

LORD LORD LOOKIE at ALL MY WONDERFUL WORKS THAT PROVE I AM SAVED...............WRONG...............
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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If you don't live a christian life the way you should live, then your works of righteousness is dead. If Abraham would have refused to sacrifice Isaac on the Alter ,he would not have had faith, and his works would have been dead. That is why scripture says that Abraham is the father of our faith. one who denies himself,and do the will of God.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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But he didn't say that did he? Use your brain.

He is saying that salvation and works go together, as in, one who is saved does works, not to retain that salvation, not to make God happy. No, just that an outcome of salvation is doing works.

What is different about your life David, now you are saved? Try to let people know you, rather than speaking at people. If you want to inspire people here, inspire them with your examples. You don't seem to want to engage with people on their level, only engage with people who agree with you.
MAN.....you must be dense.....go back and read all he has written.....I engage ALL on this thread and when ONE pushes a false gospel I will engage them heavily....HE states VERY clear that he is NOT saved until the END when the LORD sees his works....THAT is FALSE, THAT is NOT BIBLICAL.....how about USE your own BRAIN....read the whole thread then engage me....I for one an SICK of those who defend heresy just for the sake of defending heresy because they have NOT taken the time to actually see what he espouses and ALL that he denies that is biblical......
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
there are no contradictions in the bible

Romans 4:2-3*

2*For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3*For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Galatians 3:6

6*Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7*Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham

__




Hebrews 11:31
31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.


romans 3

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
bump...........
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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But he didn't say that did he? Use your brain.

He is saying that salvation and works go together, as in, one who is saved does works, not to retain that salvation, not to make God happy. No, just that an outcome of salvation is doing works.

What is different about your life David, now you are saved? Try to let people know you, rather than speaking at people. If you want to inspire people here, inspire them with your examples. You don't seem to want to engage with people on their level, only engage with people who agree with you.
This is an internet forum. All we have on display are our words. You don't know what his real life is like. What example would you like to see on a message board forum?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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If you don't live a christian life the way you should live, then your works of righteousness is dead. If Abraham would have refused to sacrifice Isaac on the Alter ,he would not have had faith, and his works would have been dead. That is why scripture says that Abraham is the father of our faith. one who denies himself,and do the will of God.
Abraham was declared righteous by faith LONG before he offered Isaac and even before he was circumcised................
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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In a nutshell, man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-26).

Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. *Not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - (barren of works - James 2:14-17).

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony* :)
This concept ignores James 2. Here it is saying faith without works is dead. Please explain why we are to ignore ithis Biblical concept. Here is James 2.

James 2 New International Version (NIV)

Favoritism Forbidden
1 My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. 2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. 3 If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4 have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7 Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?

8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”[a] you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.”[c] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Footnotes:
James 2:8 Lev. 19:18
James 2:11 Exodus 20:14; Deut. 5:18
James 2:11 Exodus 20:13; Deut. 5:17
James 2:20 Some early manuscripts dead
James 2:23 Gen. 15:6
 
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Dec 12, 2013
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This concept ignores James 2. Here it is saying faith without works is dead. Please explain why we are to ignore ithis Biblical concept. Here is James 2.

James 2 New International Version (NIV)

Favoritism Forbidden
1 My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. 2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. 3 If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4 have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7 Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?

8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”[a] you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.”[c] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Footnotes:
James 2:8 Lev. 19:18
James 2:11 Exodus 20:14; Deut. 5:18
James 2:11 Exodus 20:13; Deut. 5:17
James 2:20 Some early manuscripts dead
James 2:23 Gen. 15:6


He is not ignoring JAMES....but for sure you are ignoring the context of JAMES.........


con·text
ˈkäntekst/
noun
noun: context; plural noun: contexts

  • the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed






 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
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Think about what you said........faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word...how shall they hear unless one be sent.....last time I checked we are to be prepared TO always give an answer of why we have hope and our feet shod with the GOSPEL.....

Why not attribute to the convo instead of making sly, flippant remarks that are meant to divided and strike in a very subtle way.

WERE YOU SENT BY GOD?

Luke 6:43-45 A Tree and Its Fruit “No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. FOR OUT OF THE OVERFLOW OF HIS HEART , HIS MOUTH SPEAKS..

WHO ARE CLAIMING TO BE “STILL SINNERS” OUT OF THE OVERFLOW OF THEIR HEART???

John 3:34 For the one whom GOD HAS SENT speaks the words of God,
for God gives the Spirit without limit.



This thread and it’s author implies that there’s no need for works to a FAITH ALONE that SAVES(faith void of works).

SALVATION IS NOT BY WORKS IF IT’S APART FROM FAITH (eph 2:8-9) JUST AS FAITH ALONE APART FROM WORKS OF LOVE,OBEDIENCE AND FAITH IS DEAD (james 2:14-26)

IF WE ARE THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE (eph 5:23) AREN’T WE EXPECTED TO OBEY HIS COMMANDS (john 14:12-15)AND DO HIS WORKS OF SALVATION (1cor 3:9, 12:28 mat 25:21-30, 9:37-38 eph 4:12-13, rom 12: 3-8, 1 tim 4:16) AS WE ARE TO DO HIS WILL HERE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN (mat 6:10)

John 4:34-38 “My food,” said Jesus, “is TO DO THE WILL OF HIM WHO SENT ME AND TO FINISH HIS WORK. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now HE HARVESTS THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE, so that the sower and the reaper may be GLAD TOGETHER. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. I SENT YOU to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and YOU HAVE REAPED THE BENEFITS OF THEIR LABOR.”

John 5:36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and WHICH I AM DOING, TESTIFIES that the Father has SENT me.

John 6:39-40 And this is the will of him who SENT me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and BELIEVES IN HIM, SHALL HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 7:18 HE WHO SPEAKS ON HIS OWN does so to gain honor for himself, but HE WHO WORKS FOR THE HONOR OF THE ONE WHO SENT HIM IS A MAN OF TRUTH; there is nothing false about him.

John 9:4-5 As long as it is day, WE MUST DO THE WORK OF HIM WHO SENT ME. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

John 17:18 As you sent me into the world, I have SENT THEM into the world.

John 20:21-22 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I AM SENDING YOU.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

ONE SURE WAY TO RECOGNIZE THOSE WHO WERE NOT SENT ACCORDING TO THE VERSES ABOVE IS TO KNOW WHAT THEY DO.

DO THEY PREACH AGAINST THE WORKS THAT GOD HAS PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR US TO DO BY SAYING THAT: “FAITH ALONE SAVES AND IT IS VOID OF WORKS.”?

DO THEY PREACH THAT; “WORKS ARE WORKS ARE WORKS.”?
THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S COMMANDMENTS CANNOT SAVE EVEN THOSE BELIEVERS WHO CONFESS WITH THEIR MOUTHS THAT JESUS IS LORD AND BELIEVE IN THEIR HEARTS THAT GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD.

DO THEY PREACH THAT SINCE THEY WERE ALREADY SAVED, THEY WILL ALWAYS BE SAVED REGARDLESS OF THEIR WILLFUL AND CONTINUOUS SINNING(manifested by their arguments against those who push for continuous faith and are against willful sinning).

DO THEY PROMOTE SIN BY SAYING THAT THOSE WHO ARE CLAIMING THAT THOSE BORN AGAIN IN THE SPIRIT IS A NEW CREATION AND THEREFORE MUST NOT SIN OR CEASE FROM SINNING, ARE LIARS ACCDG. TO 1JOHN 1:8 WHICH THEY LOVE TO QUOTE BUT REJECTING THE WHOLE TRUTH EXPRESSED IN THE BIBLE? WHICH ONLY PROVES THIS VERSES BELOW TO BE TRUE:

Romans 8:5-9 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds SET ON WHAT THE SPIRIT DESIRES. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. IT DOES NOT SUBMIT TO GOD’S LAW, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, HE DOES NOT BELONG TO CHRIST.

WOULD THE SPIRIT OF GOD DESIRE SIN?

Galatians 2:17-18 “If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes EVIDENT that we ourselves are SINNERS, does that mean that Christ PROMOTES SIN? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker.

Romans 6:15 What then? SHALL WE SIN because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!

1 Corinthians 6:17 But he who unites himself with the Lord is ONE WITH HIM IN SPIRIT.

John 16:13 But when he, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11,15-20 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. AND THAT IS WHAT SOME OF YOU WERE. But you were WASHED, you were SANCTIFIED, you were JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

Galatians 6:7-8 DO NOT BE DECEIVED, GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

1 John 2:3-6 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

John 14:31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I DO EXACTLY WHAT .MY FATHER HAS COMMANDED ME. “Come now; let us leave.

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were STILL SINNERS, Christ died for us.

Romans 6:21-23 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ASHAMED OF? Those things result in death! But NOW that you have been SET FREE FROM SIN and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to HOLINESS, and the result is ETERNAL LIFE. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD.

Romans 1:32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only CONTINUE TO DO these very things but also APPROVE of those who practice them.

John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.

Psalm 49:13-14 This is the fate of those who trust in themselves, and of THEIR FOLLOWERS, who APPROVE their sayings. Selah Like sheep they are destined for the grave, and death will feed on them. The upright will rule over them in the morning; their forms will decay in the grave, far from their princely mansions.

THEREFORE:

Romans 10:14-15 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? AND HOW CAN THEY PREACH UNLESS THEY ARE SENT? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,265
5,624
113
Assurance that we are really saved comes from what we do, not from a doctrine about not being able to lose your salvation. You have to know you're really saved in the first place for that doctrine to mean anything. And the Bible says we know that we're really saved and ready to meet Jesus by our obedience to God's commands.
You CANNOT live up to that! I certainly can't either.

Assurance comes from what Jesus did. Nothing else. I could do all the works of Theresa of Calcutta but I would still be imperfect.

A person may be able to wilfully and deliberately make a conscience decision to leave The Lord, reject him and walk away from him but no one is going to lose their salvation by accident, by not measuring up to the law or by not working toward it.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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WERE YOU SENT BY GOD?

Luke 6:43-45 A Tree and Its Fruit “No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. FOR OUT OF THE OVERFLOW OF HIS HEART , HIS MOUTH SPEAKS..

WHO ARE CLAIMING TO BE “STILL SINNERS” OUT OF THE OVERFLOW OF THEIR HEART???

John 3:34 For the one whom GOD HAS SENT speaks the words of God,
for God gives the Spirit without limit.



This thread and it’s author implies that there’s no need for works to a FAITH ALONE that SAVES(faith void of works).

SALVATION IS NOT BY WORKS IF IT’S APART FROM FAITH (eph 2:8-9) JUST AS FAITH ALONE APART FROM WORKS OF LOVE,OBEDIENCE AND FAITH IS DEAD (james 2:14-26)

IF WE ARE THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE (eph 5:23) AREN’T WE EXPECTED TO OBEY HIS COMMANDS (john 14:12-15)AND DO HIS WORKS OF SALVATION (1cor 3:9, 12:28 mat 25:21-30, 9:37-38 eph 4:12-13, rom 12: 3-8, 1 tim 4:16) AS WE ARE TO DO HIS WILL HERE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN (mat 6:10)

John 4:34-38 “My food,” said Jesus, “is TO DO THE WILL OF HIM WHO SENT ME AND TO FINISH HIS WORK. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now HE HARVESTS THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE, so that the sower and the reaper may be GLAD TOGETHER. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. I SENT YOU to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and YOU HAVE REAPED THE BENEFITS OF THEIR LABOR.”

John 5:36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and WHICH I AM DOING, TESTIFIES that the Father has SENT me.

John 6:39-40 And this is the will of him who SENT me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and BELIEVES IN HIM, SHALL HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 7:18 HE WHO SPEAKS ON HIS OWN does so to gain honor for himself, but HE WHO WORKS FOR THE HONOR OF THE ONE WHO SENT HIM IS A MAN OF TRUTH; there is nothing false about him.

John 9:4-5 As long as it is day, WE MUST DO THE WORK OF HIM WHO SENT ME. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

John 17:18 As you sent me into the world, I have SENT THEM into the world.

John 20:21-22 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I AM SENDING YOU.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

ONE SURE WAY TO RECOGNIZE THOSE WHO WERE NOT SENT ACCORDING TO THE VERSES ABOVE IS TO KNOW WHAT THEY DO.

DO THEY PREACH AGAINST THE WORKS THAT GOD HAS PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR US TO DO BY SAYING THAT: “FAITH ALONE SAVES AND IT IS VOID OF WORKS.”?

DO THEY PREACH THAT; “WORKS ARE WORKS ARE WORKS.”?
THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S COMMANDMENTS CANNOT SAVE EVEN THOSE BELIEVERS WHO CONFESS WITH THEIR MOUTHS THAT JESUS IS LORD AND BELIEVE IN THEIR HEARTS THAT GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD.

DO THEY PREACH THAT SINCE THEY WERE ALREADY SAVED, THEY WILL ALWAYS BE SAVED REGARDLESS OF THEIR WILLFUL AND CONTINUOUS SINNING(manifested by their arguments against those who push for continuous faith and are against willful sinning).

DO THEY PROMOTE SIN BY SAYING THAT THOSE WHO ARE CLAIMING THAT THOSE BORN AGAIN IN THE SPIRIT IS A NEW CREATION AND THEREFORE MUST NOT SIN OR CEASE FROM SINNING, ARE LIARS ACCDG. TO 1JOHN 1:8 WHICH THEY LOVE TO QUOTE BUT REJECTING THE WHOLE TRUTH EXPRESSED IN THE BIBLE? WHICH ONLY PROVES THIS VERSES BELOW TO BE TRUE:

Romans 8:5-9 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds SET ON WHAT THE SPIRIT DESIRES. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. IT DOES NOT SUBMIT TO GOD’S LAW, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, HE DOES NOT BELONG TO CHRIST.

WOULD THE SPIRIT OF GOD DESIRE SIN?

Galatians 2:17-18 “If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes EVIDENT that we ourselves are SINNERS, does that mean that Christ PROMOTES SIN? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker.

Romans 6:15 What then? SHALL WE SIN because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!

1 Corinthians 6:17 But he who unites himself with the Lord is ONE WITH HIM IN SPIRIT.

John 16:13 But when he, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11,15-20 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. AND THAT IS WHAT SOME OF YOU WERE. But you were WASHED, you were SANCTIFIED, you were JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

Galatians 6:7-8 DO NOT BE DECEIVED, GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

1 John 2:3-6 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

John 14:31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I DO EXACTLY WHAT .MY FATHER HAS COMMANDED ME. “Come now; let us leave.

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were STILL SINNERS, Christ died for us.

Romans 6:21-23 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ASHAMED OF? Those things result in death! But NOW that you have been SET FREE FROM SIN and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to HOLINESS, and the result is ETERNAL LIFE. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD.

Romans 1:32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only CONTINUE TO DO these very things but also APPROVE of those who practice them.

John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.

Psalm 49:13-14 This is the fate of those who trust in themselves, and of THEIR FOLLOWERS, who APPROVE their sayings. Selah Like sheep they are destined for the grave, and death will feed on them. The upright will rule over them in the morning; their forms will decay in the grave, far from their princely mansions.

THEREFORE:

Romans 10:14-15 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? AND HOW CAN THEY PREACH UNLESS THEY ARE SENT? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
We have already established the fact that....

a. Your view is flawed
b. It does no good to engage you
c. And your post is full of lies that I have not implied or indicated
 
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Dec 12, 2013
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You CANNOT live up to that! I certainly can't either.

Assurance comes from what Jesus did. Nothing else. I could do all the works of Theresa of Calcutta but I would still be imperfect.

A person may be able to wilfully and deliberately make a conscience decision to leave The Lord, reject him and walk away from him but no one is going to lose their salvation by accident, by not measuring up to the law or by not working toward it.

AMEN....his statement is literally the antithesis of faith...............
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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He is not ignoring JAMES....but for sure you are ignoring the context of JAMES.........


con·text
ˈkäntekst/
noun
noun: context; plural noun: contexts

  • the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed
I hate to disillusion you but I read carefully the entire book of James. I made sure to post the part of the concept by putting it in context by posting the entire NIV chapter of james 2. Try again. I totally disagree with your assertion trying to diminish the concept of the scripture. It seems to be a concept that is uncomfortable but simply stated the works are the result of true faith. Without works that meansmthe "faith" is only lip service. Real faith impels action.
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
I hate to disillusion you but I read carefully the entire book of James. I made sure to post the part of the concept by putting it in context by posting the entire NIV chapter of james 2. Try again. I totally disagree with your assertion trying to diminish the concept of the scripture. It seems to be a concept that is uncomfouncomf but simply stated the works are the result of true faith. Without works that meansmthe "faith" is only lip service. Real faith impels action.
truth doesn't care wether or not you agree...

it stays truth regardless of your "careful reading"
and miss understanding
 
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Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
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We have already established the fact that....

a. Your view is flawed
b. It does no good to engage you
c. And your post is full of lies that I have not implied or indicated
New International Version 1984 John 7:17-18 If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.