Not By Works

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Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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Unsaved people can't put on a consistent show of love. They have waay too much fruits of sin in them to keep the act going
"And they took the bull that was given them, and they prepared it and called upon the name of Baal from morning until noon, saying, “O Baal, answer us!” But there was no voice, and no one answered. And they limped around the altar that they had made.And at noon Elijah mocked them, saying, “Cry aloud, for he is a god. Either he is musing, or he is relieving himself, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened.” (1 Kings 18: 26-27)

By your reasoning, Elijah wasn't saved.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Who are you challenging?!? I don't know of any believer that supports or promotes this, so not sure where you're getting this from?
I think I know. :rolleyes:



Sin is sin, but there is a difference between a sinful lifestyle and a sinful temptation, and I think this is where the confusion is.

The scripture that comes to mind...

1 Cor 6:9-11: Do you not know that the unrighteous (non believers) will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you (believers). But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God"

The ones involved in/"living in" such sinful lifestyles are non believers, lost in the world, who have not been convicted of their sins yet. It says "And such were some of you" as in some believers used to be involved in those lifestyles before they became new creatures in Christ. They don't go back to that life.

As for believers, we are not sinless, because while we have these bodies we will always struggle with the sin nature. So believers will occasionally fail, whether they have a wrongful thought or get angry. Still wrong, but this is not the same as living in a sinful lifestyle. A believer does not go back to life as a thief, or back to a homosexual lifestyle, for example.

Romans 7:14-25:

"For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin"
Amen Katy! Great post! Galatians 5:19 - Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

*The idea of "practice" is to perform repeatedly or habitually and thus describes repetition or continuous action. Paul uses the present tense which describes the practice as habitual, as one's lifestyle or bent of life. No repentance, just bring it on! Living a sinful lifestyle is a daily practice of premeditated sin, without goal or effort to stop and plan and provide for future conditions to support their sinful lifestyle.

*Those who continue to practice such sins demonstrate that they are not born of God. Yet this does not mean that believers live a sinless, without fault of defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time either (1 John 1:8-10).
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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So if you want to defend the person still living in and enslaved by sin (which is you since you say there is no difference between sinning and living in sin)
I'm always amazed at how you maximize the sins of others while you minimize your own.

You keep pulling this "living" in sin out of thin air and wave it around like it's a magic wand, but as it's been stated - over and over and over again - Christians have no sins attributed to us. None. Zero. Nada. If even one were, we'd been on the fast train to hell.

You need sins to keep your self-righteous works religion alive.

I never have.

I've told you over and over and over it's about whether or not you are living in sin. It's not about 'x' number of sins.
In one single sentence, you've contradicted yourself twice.

Only if you are in unbelief and living in and enslaved by the flesh.
And....and....and....

You sure keep loading on the conditions, don't you?

One sin attributed, and you are done. Period.

Actually, what we have is a new nature in a flesh body. The old nature, the old mind deep within (not our conscious mind), was replaced by the new nature. What remains is the flesh through which desires tempt us to sin.
Yet again, thanks for admitting there exists two natures in the Christian.

And 2 Corinthians 5:17 is talking about having the power now (with the new nature) to resist the power of the old. We never had that ability before. Its all encompassing influence is gone. If it meant that the old nature no longer exists in man, we would no longer sin, nor be tempted to sin.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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Florida
The rub is he says we CAN live in a lifestyle of sin and be saved because works don't matter to salvation.

Then he'll talk about how the believer WILL have works (which he doesn't seem to realize, makes works required or else you're not saved because believers WILL have works). So works do matter. But then back he'll go to the argument that you don't have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back, and round and round and round he will go.
Not once have I read a post of his where he stated that those that are saved can live in a lifestyle of sin or that works are necessary for salvation. Works are a manifestation of salvation but do not in themselves provide a means of salvation. This has been stated clearly also.

Believers do in fact have works, humbly serving the Lord in the work that the Heavenly Father has prepared beforehand. The works are not performed out of a sense of obligation or fear of losing salvation but because of a deep abiding love of God. You don't have to have works to be saved, and indeed, works in themselves do not save but the works are evidence of a faith that is unseen that what God has started in a born again believer He is certainly willing and able to complete. The born again believer allows God to work through them in order to accomplish His intended purpose.

God is the one that has provided the means of salvation and God is the one who has performed the good work.
 

MichaelOwen

Senior Member
Nov 6, 2017
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Then you will not enter the kingdom of God.

And if you say God's grace makes it so we can live in these sins and still enter into the kingdom of God you make the grace of God a license to sin, which it is not.

The grace of God is your license to NOT live in these sins anymore. That's why how you act shows if you have the grace of God in salvation or not.

You're very good at twisting words.....I will give you that much
 
V

valleyofdecision

Guest
I have been around most of these people on this BOARD, way longer then You have been on the board. They have most of them are of the SAME doctrinal Faith as I have been. You have only been here since here since Aug. 12, 2017. Therefore, it has been obvious that you are guilty of misjudges people. PLUS they are almost NO SUCH CHURCHES that you describe, therefore I believe you have misjudged much of those CHURCHES, so you are one with a PHOBIA, and you are on a Crusade to Hunt Down those Phobia induces WITCH HUNT, that you are on.

The Bible Belt includes North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Iowa, Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas, Tennessee, West Virginia, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, and most of northern Florida.

There is a mini Bible Belt in Northern California, through out Oregon and EVEN into rural Washington.

We do not know of a church that teaches the Gospel, different then me. SO WHERE ARE YOUR WITCHES.
Just because you say churches he describes are not seen or witnessed by you does not mean they do not exist.

We have many free grace churches in Texas, that probably are more along the line of universalist, but still free grace churches are usually the huge mega churches, that happen to also preach the tithe so they can keep 85 pastors on staff and 100 more support staff with full salary and benefits.

I would suggest we stop calling it free grace and call it perverted grace or the Harlot church that will sleep with anyone for money.

These harlot churches pervert the true message of grace and teach all about God, but never mention Jesus Christ. When a church never mentions Jesus Christ, you know without a doubt it is a harlot perverted grace church.

I think you and others make really good points, but lets not go overboard and suggest what another posters says about perverted grace and harlot churches is not true, solely because you or others have not seen or experienced them.

perverted grace messages are all over Christian TV right now, its all the relevant rage today.
 
V

valleyofdecision

Guest
"And they took the bull that was given them, and they prepared it and called upon the name of Baal from morning until noon, saying, “O Baal, answer us!” But there was no voice, and no one answered. And they limped around the altar that they had made.And at noon Elijah mocked them, saying, “Cry aloud, for he is a god. Either he is musing, or he is relieving himself, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened.” (1 Kings 18: 26-27)

By your reasoning, Elijah wasn't saved.
This is using an apple to compare an orange. Lets not confuse righteous indignation with the lack of a Christ like love walk

I think you guys need to slow down and think about what your using as defense of the Gospel. Elijah acting on God's behalf with Baal priests is a very different than someone whose has bitter water they are passing of as sweet.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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Happy Valentines Day.

I only received one red rose.

That's because for the last 32 years, I receive a rose to celebrate our meeting one another and then a year later getting married to one another.

On the 8th day of each month for 32 years this has happened.

:rolleyes:
 
Feb 8, 2018
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Happy Valentines Day.

I only received one red rose.

That's because for the last 32 years, I receive a rose to celebrate our meeting one another and then a year later getting married to one another.

On the 8th day of each month for 32 years this has happened.

:rolleyes:
LOVE THAT!!
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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Happy Valentine's Day, Star! :eek:


Star.jpg




Happy Valentines Day.

I only received one red rose.

That's because for the last 32 years, I receive a rose to celebrate our meeting one another and then a year later getting married to one another.

On the 8th day of each month for 32 years this has happened.

:rolleyes:
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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This is using an apple to compare an orange. Lets not confuse righteous indignation with the lack of a Christ like love walk

I think you guys need to slow down and think about what your using as defense of the Gospel. Elijah acting on God's behalf with Baal priests is a very different than someone whose has bitter water they are passing of as sweet.

The point being, Elijah mocked and made fun of them. And who says, when it comes to the Gospel, we're not righteously indignant - you?

Perhaps you need to step down from your own high horse before you get chafed.
 
V

valleyofdecision

Guest
The point being, Elijah mocked and made fun of them. And who says, when it comes to the Gospel, we're not righteously indignant - you?

Perhaps you need to step down from your own high horse before you get chafed.
Perhaps you should stop thinking everybody is on a high horse and out to get you and one up you.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Happy Valentines Day.

I only received one red rose.

That's because for the last 32 years, I receive a rose to celebrate our meeting one another and then a year later getting married to one another.

On the 8th day of each month for 32 years this has happened.

:rolleyes:
Hubby gives you a rose on the 8th day of every month?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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Another day.........and the gospel is still the same....Jesus went to the cross of Calvary to pay for the sins of the whole world....he was in the tomb three days and nights and (ana-stasis) stood again for our justification.

ALL who exercise saving faith into the work of Christ will have your sin debt covered, the imputed righteousness of Christ which = saved, sealed, justified and sanctified in Christ eternally.

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he SAVED US (past tense)

Trust JESUS...believe the gospel of salvation.....it is based entirely upon faith with NO STRINGS attached, regardless of those who attempt to embellish it or top it off with works and some sort of sinless perfectionism.