Not By Works
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Thank you for this scripture, you are the first to support your belief with something besides clever words.
There is only 1 spiritual baptism and the Lord referred to this as being born of the spirit. (John 3:5). In that same verse the Lord also said that we must be born of water too. To me, you can't be completely baptized until you are born of water (baptized by water) and born of the spirit (baptized of the spirit). This then, to me is the one baptism that Paul was talking about.
I haven't done an exhaustive study of the use of the word baptized. But if I were to do it, I believe that I will find that the word when used in the scriptures, more often refers to water baptism. In the beginning of the church, a person was water baptized in order to become a member of the church. So again, I believe when Paul was talking about one Lord and one baptism he was talking about water baptism, but I also believe that one baptism could be referring to both the water and the spirit baptism.
There is only 1 spiritual baptism and the Lord referred to this as being born of the spirit. (John 3:5). In that same verse the Lord also said that we must be born of water too. To me, you can't be completely baptized until you are born of water (baptized by water) and born of the spirit (baptized of the spirit). This then, to me is the one baptism that Paul was talking about.
I haven't done an exhaustive study of the use of the word baptized. But if I were to do it, I believe that I will find that the word when used in the scriptures, more often refers to water baptism. In the beginning of the church, a person was water baptized in order to become a member of the church. So again, I believe when Paul was talking about one Lord and one baptism he was talking about water baptism, but I also believe that one baptism could be referring to both the water and the spirit baptism.
Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of
his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” John 7:38
his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” John 7:38
Jesus said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” John 4:13b-14
And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment." Rev 21:6
The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price. Rev 22:17
With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation. Isa 12:3
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb Rev 22:1
On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. John 7:37-39a
They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any scorching heat. For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd, and he will guide them to springs of living water, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes. Rev 7:16-17
Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, ‘Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.” John 4:10
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Again, I tell you are wrong about Christian Water Baptism.
IT DOES NOT SAVE.
Nothing we DO CAN SAVE US.
You want Proof, here it is:
1 Peter 3:20-22 (ESV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
[SUP]22 [/SUP] who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.
IT IS NOT THE WATER THAT SAVES YOU, it is the IMMERSION INTO THE BODY OF JESUS CHRIST, performed by the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:13 (GW)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] By one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.
Whether we are Jewish or Greek, slave or free, God gave all of us one Spirit to drink.
Ephesians 4:4-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope at your calling—
[SUP]5 [/SUP] one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Why is the Christian Water Baptism most certainly also important?
IT IS ONE OF THE FIRST STEPS OF OBEDIENCE, THAT A BABY CHRISTIAN SHOULD BE WILLING TO TAKE.
A PUBLIC IDENTIFICATION WITH CHRIST, IN WHICH WE IDENTIFY WITH HIS DEATH, BURIAL, AND RESURRECTION.
BUT Christian Water Baptism DOES NOT SAVE YOU. THAT HAPPENED THE MOMENT YOU FIRST BELIEVED.
SEE IT, IN 1 COR. 12:13, "we were all baptized"
Not everyone was Baptized in Water,
NOT THE THIEF ON THE CROSS,
NOT death bed confessions,
NOT people who are bed bound for life,
NOT inmates, permanently in solitary confinement,
NOT Old Testament Saints that believed GOD would send a Messiah,
ETC.
BUT every single TRUE believer, whether they be N.T. Saints, or O.T. Saints, were immersed by the HOLY SPIRIT the MOMENT THEY BELIEVED, in the Body of Christ the MESSIAH.
Again, I tell you are wrong about Christian Water Baptism.
IT DOES NOT SAVE.
Nothing we DO CAN SAVE US.
You want Proof, here it is:
1 Peter 3:20-22 (ESV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
[SUP]22 [/SUP] who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.
IT IS NOT THE WATER THAT SAVES YOU, it is the IMMERSION INTO THE BODY OF JESUS CHRIST, performed by the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:13 (GW)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] By one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.
Whether we are Jewish or Greek, slave or free, God gave all of us one Spirit to drink.
Ephesians 4:4-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope at your calling—
[SUP]5 [/SUP] one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Why is the Christian Water Baptism most certainly also important?
IT IS ONE OF THE FIRST STEPS OF OBEDIENCE, THAT A BABY CHRISTIAN SHOULD BE WILLING TO TAKE.
A PUBLIC IDENTIFICATION WITH CHRIST, IN WHICH WE IDENTIFY WITH HIS DEATH, BURIAL, AND RESURRECTION.
BUT Christian Water Baptism DOES NOT SAVE YOU. THAT HAPPENED THE MOMENT YOU FIRST BELIEVED.
SEE IT, IN 1 COR. 12:13, "we were all baptized"
Not everyone was Baptized in Water,
NOT THE THIEF ON THE CROSS,
NOT death bed confessions,
NOT people who are bed bound for life,
NOT inmates, permanently in solitary confinement,
NOT Old Testament Saints that believed GOD would send a Messiah,
ETC.
BUT every single TRUE believer, whether they be N.T. Saints, or O.T. Saints, were immersed by the HOLY SPIRIT the MOMENT THEY BELIEVED, in the Body of Christ the MESSIAH.
J
No he's just pointing out that you still haven't learned,honestly just how long are you determined to lie to yourself?
We've been through this before and the result will be the same as last time.
I respect the disciples in the bible because at least they "learned" from their transgressions and sought to repent,you are determined for some reason to end up in a constant circle,repeating forever and accomplishing nothing for Jesus.
We've been through this before and the result will be the same as last time.
I respect the disciples in the bible because at least they "learned" from their transgressions and sought to repent,you are determined for some reason to end up in a constant circle,repeating forever and accomplishing nothing for Jesus.
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Amen....Jesus disrobed himself of glory, was born the Son of God by the Holy Spirit overshadowing a woman and was immersed as THE SON OF MAN.....many completely overlook the fact that Jesus walked the earth as the SECOND ADAM and was in the form of sinful flesh though without sin....HIS HUMANITY can be seen many times....especially when he prayed for this cup to pass from him if possible.
Really....I don't remember a verse where they call him Lord.....can you please post a verse where they call Jesus Lord.
I remember the following.....but cannot think of one verse where they call him Lord!
And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
I remember the following.....but cannot think of one verse where they call him Lord!
And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Amen.....cannot stand any dogma that devalues the work, promises, and power of Christ while enthroning self and boasting of their works, how holy they are and their sinless perfectionists garbage....Jesus speaks of them using the statement... MANY WILL COME BEFORE ME IN THAT DAY SAYING, "Lord, Lord, did we not...."
Hi Joe,
You are suffering from a delusion.
So whatever point you guys are trying to make, unless you work for the Lord you work
in vain. Somehow you have created a view of God where you need to do nothing, which
means you literally do not know Him.
There is this truth, unless your heart is flowing with love from on High, you have nothing
and have gained only a religious performance.
Now the fact you oppose scripture and it appears all I share, you are cast out in a way I
did not expect or you can actually grasp. But we choose our loyalties and who we listen to.
But there is always hope, if you will humble yourself, repent of the sin you cannot face, and
ask Him to heal you.
What is the meaning of the parable of the talents?
Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them.
To one he gave five talents of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey.
The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more.
So also, the one with the two talents gained two more.
But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.
"After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them.
The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.'
"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
"The man with the two talents also came. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.'
"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
"Then the man who had received the one talent came. 'Master,' he said, 'I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed.
So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.'
"His master replied, 'You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed?
Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
"'Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents.
For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.
And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
Matthew 25:14-30
The parable of the talents is about taking responsibility for what God has given you.
It is about putting things to work and giving glory to God for what He has provided.
You are suffering from a delusion.
So whatever point you guys are trying to make, unless you work for the Lord you work
in vain. Somehow you have created a view of God where you need to do nothing, which
means you literally do not know Him.
There is this truth, unless your heart is flowing with love from on High, you have nothing
and have gained only a religious performance.
Now the fact you oppose scripture and it appears all I share, you are cast out in a way I
did not expect or you can actually grasp. But we choose our loyalties and who we listen to.
But there is always hope, if you will humble yourself, repent of the sin you cannot face, and
ask Him to heal you.
What is the meaning of the parable of the talents?
Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them.
To one he gave five talents of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey.
The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more.
So also, the one with the two talents gained two more.
But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.
"After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them.
The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.'
"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
"The man with the two talents also came. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.'
"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
"Then the man who had received the one talent came. 'Master,' he said, 'I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed.
So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.'
"His master replied, 'You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed?
Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
"'Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents.
For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.
And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
Matthew 25:14-30
The parable of the talents is about taking responsibility for what God has given you.
It is about putting things to work and giving glory to God for what He has provided.
There is a joke here. Wherever we stand in our belief system, and the type of life we have,
and the way we go about things, we are saying, become like me.
And Paul calls us to follow his example as he follows Christ. Are you saying this is wrong?
Now in the church I attend like most we have people with many different views, and very
few people would ever say how holy and righteous they are, even when that is exactly what
they are. These humble folk need encouragement, and to be told how precious a thing God
has done in their lives, and how much delight He takes in His people.
Paul puts it like this
To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ--their Lord and ours:
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:2-3
The people of God are sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy.
I do not hear such words from your group, or even a desire to be such a thing,
or even a belief that Christs sanctification brings one into holiness.
This is why under all the words and aspirations, you are not following Jesus.
Unless you see the cross is all about holiness and its sanctity, how He opens
the door to eternal life and communion with Him, for us to be Holy Temples of
the Holy Spirit, how can any of it make sense?
What you end up with is a fake conversion, with a fake hypocritical walk, where
maybe you learn how to put up with your neighbor while disliking all he represents.
That is a farce, and a mockery of the cross and Jesus's all conquering love.
and the way we go about things, we are saying, become like me.
And Paul calls us to follow his example as he follows Christ. Are you saying this is wrong?
Now in the church I attend like most we have people with many different views, and very
few people would ever say how holy and righteous they are, even when that is exactly what
they are. These humble folk need encouragement, and to be told how precious a thing God
has done in their lives, and how much delight He takes in His people.
Paul puts it like this
To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ--their Lord and ours:
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:2-3
The people of God are sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy.
I do not hear such words from your group, or even a desire to be such a thing,
or even a belief that Christs sanctification brings one into holiness.
This is why under all the words and aspirations, you are not following Jesus.
Unless you see the cross is all about holiness and its sanctity, how He opens
the door to eternal life and communion with Him, for us to be Holy Temples of
the Holy Spirit, how can any of it make sense?
What you end up with is a fake conversion, with a fake hypocritical walk, where
maybe you learn how to put up with your neighbor while disliking all he represents.
That is a farce, and a mockery of the cross and Jesus's all conquering love.
I am not a fervent water baptizer. But I am one who sees obedience to the Lord
and sealing ones faith in Him matters. So at the right time, being baptized is a sealing
and confession to the world one has become His.
To rebel against such a testimony, is to deny the power of all Christ has achieved, so
if one claims Him as Lord, this is a test of where ones heart truly lies.
It is similar to forgiveness. The Lord does not command us to forgive, but shows us
we are in no position to withhold forgiveness, for our very lives rest on His forgiveness
of our sins. Now this is such a problem for many, they would rather die than forgive some
people, which unfortunately seals their fate.
Purity and holiness are so extreme, it is very hard to take. It takes ones life, all that we
are, to sacrifice and accept the life Jesus then gives us.
Who is the believer? Someone who has believed on Christ or someone who has believed
on Christ and forgiven all the hold things against?
The answer is both, except if the first never forgives all, then the forgiveness they have
received will be taken away. God is very clear on this reality. And I know many will die
rebelling against this very reality, and believe God will save them, when the exact opposite
is His declared position. But He is very patient, and will give all time and opportunity to work
these realities through, but they stand eternally.
and sealing ones faith in Him matters. So at the right time, being baptized is a sealing
and confession to the world one has become His.
To rebel against such a testimony, is to deny the power of all Christ has achieved, so
if one claims Him as Lord, this is a test of where ones heart truly lies.
It is similar to forgiveness. The Lord does not command us to forgive, but shows us
we are in no position to withhold forgiveness, for our very lives rest on His forgiveness
of our sins. Now this is such a problem for many, they would rather die than forgive some
people, which unfortunately seals their fate.
Purity and holiness are so extreme, it is very hard to take. It takes ones life, all that we
are, to sacrifice and accept the life Jesus then gives us.
Who is the believer? Someone who has believed on Christ or someone who has believed
on Christ and forgiven all the hold things against?
The answer is both, except if the first never forgives all, then the forgiveness they have
received will be taken away. God is very clear on this reality. And I know many will die
rebelling against this very reality, and believe God will save them, when the exact opposite
is His declared position. But He is very patient, and will give all time and opportunity to work
these realities through, but they stand eternally.
N
matthew 7
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
______________
John 10
10 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Romans 4:5 - But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
____________
Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
_________________
Isaiah 53:11 - He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
______________
Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
______________
John 10
10 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Romans 4:5 - But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
____________
Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
_________________
Isaiah 53:11 - He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
______________
Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.