Not By Works

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benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,028
60
48
How can one who humbly gives their life to their Saviour and Lord Jesus turn from "servitude"?
one can perhaps keep from "small tasks" such as tithes but who serving Jesus can turn away when their Lord earnestly calls them to do what he wills,for instance if one has not heard of Jesus and Jesus calls for one of us to teach them of him and his works,whom in his service can "keep from doing his will"?
That is why I believe that faith and works are eternally tied together. If you have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, good works will follow you all your days. Your faith will grow and develope as the grain of a mustard seed grows from a very small seed to a great and mighty tree. So does your compassion for your fellow men, and good works become a hall mark.

Now do these good works save you, no, but I can guarantee you that if you say you have great faith in Jesus Christ and good works do not follow, I know your supposed great faith will not save you either. Faith and good works are tied together. The parable of the talents is a perfect example of how Jesus works with his own faithful servants.
 
Jan 25, 2018
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You need to repent of this statement. I percieve that your heart is rather cold.
I am sad to say dcontroversal will wake up one day and find his faith has flown
away and he will not know where it has gone. You cannot continual destroy the
source of life in your heart and gain encouragement in the Lord. It does die
eventually.

I have read of people who look at things for years and finally change their view,
not quite knowing why but knowing they have arrived at something new. Equally
some appear to hold certain positions in the Lord, and then lose it all. I think this
is Jesus's warning about a sin against the Holy Spirit. Once one is this hard there
is no way back.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
6,360
314
83
Amen. This is a very stirring testimony.
And brother, after such an experience you know there is nothing you can do that
makes you worthy, that everything in your walk is just an offering of praise to the King.

The part you shared about seeing your sins and Jesus upon that cross bearing them all
and forgiving them is the core of our walk and our purity.

Many here have not come close to what you saw that day, or know in their hearts the
depth of repentance you felt. I went to a similar place to yourself and it changed everything
for me. But this only has significance if we walk in His ways. He gives us the ability to walk
in our futures whether we are faithful or not.

I used to wonder why God blessed with gifting and spiritual insight those who later stumbled
and fell, maybe irretrievably. Because God blesses in the moment, He accepts you as you are
today, and He honors that moment, whether it will be destroyed in the future or not.

This is the meaning of Ezk 18:21-26

The people of Israel where baptised into heaven through the red sea, yet many died judged
in that desert. We are free beings, blessed by love and grace, but we need to be worthy of
this blessing and walk in it.

More of my Testimony is on Post #35421 on this Thread.

I am just a Sinner Saved by Grace. I find it strange that few have that DEEP REMORSE OVER THEIR SINS, but who am I to judge. Yes, I have a intolerance for FALSE DOCTRINES, but NEVER for the SINNER SAVED BY GRACE. In Fact, like Paul, I have to consider my self the Chiefest of Sinners.

1 Timothy 1:15-17 (NKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.


Every moment of ANGER wrongfully is SIN; Every moment of Greed or Uncaring for any reason, especially because I am to Busy doing something else, is SIN, etc.; and I am YET convicted of SIN once again. I even Confess every time I notice that I am driving over the Speed Limit accidentally; because HE SAID - I AM TO BE SUBMISSIVE TO EVERY ORDINANCE OF MAN FOR THE LORDS SAKE.

You made a statement that I disagree with, when you said "those who later stumbled and fell, maybe irretrievably."
IF WE TRULY WERE BORN AGAIN, we still are. How much of your sins were yet future when we HE PAID FOR THEM ALL?


Romans 5:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.


1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.


But I am convinced that genuine REMORSE over Sin, is part of the Repentance process.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
1,829
467
83
<><.t.><>

Do You Know Why I Adamantly Believe in the Born Again experience, and the Once Saved, Always Saved positions?


Believe me, NEITHER was taught in the Church that I was Raised In. It was an old fashion German style of Lutheran Church. No Body ever even mentioned those two Beliefs to me, while I was growing up.

I remained, not Saved, but thought I was a Christian, because I took up space on a Church Pew once in awhile. Some body should have told me, that if sitting in a garage, did not make me a Car; why would just sitting in a pew, would make me a Christian. I was NOT Saved, until I was almost 29 years old on about December 30, 1977, and I was raised in that Church my whole life prior to that. On December 24, 1977, I was told by my wife of only 6 months, "I want a Divorce, because you cannot earn enough money to buy me what I want in life."

That sent me into a tailspin, into deep depression. During the Following week, I attempted SUICIDE three different times. The first time I made up my mind that I knew I did not care if I hurt my parents, or even my brother or sister. I just did not want to live another DAY. I sat on the bed with a pistol against my head, and with the trigger half pulled. The is when the Lord intervened, HE PUT SUCH A SHEAR TERROR IN MY HEART, because I was NOT SAVED, that I KNEW IF I FINISHED PULLING THE TRIGGER I WAS WALKING INTO HELL, FOR SURE. I shook so hard that I dropped the pistol on the bed. No, I was not afraid of Dying, I just did not want to see another DAY.

Two days after that, I tried a second Time. This time I called my wife, because I wanted her to hear the fatal shot when I did it. And again the Lord intervened, and that SAME OVERWHELMING TERROR over came me. A TERROR WAY BEYOND WHAT A MAN WITH A KNIFE TO THROAT, COULD EVER PUT IN ME JUST BEFORE HE SLIT MY THROAT. I LITERALLY KNEW I WAS IN THE DOORWAY TO HADES/HELL AND WILLINGLY WALK INTO IT. This time as I shook the Pistol fell from my hand and hit the floor. I still do not know what it did not go off.

The Next NIGHT, I tried a third time. I saw them pouring a very thick layer of Gravel on a dirt road near me, that after noon. I went to a bar that night, and got as drunk as I could, and made a full proof plan {God had other plans for my life}, and drove home on my dirt bike, and dropped my helmet off. I then when out to than dirt road with lose gravel on it, KNOWING THE MOST DANGEROUS SURFACE YOU CAN RIDE A BIKE ON WAS LOOSE GRAVEL. I am MORE ashamed of what I did next, because I KNEW IT SAID IN THE BIBLE, "THOU SHALT NOT TEMPT THE LORD YOUR GOD." As I approached that Mile of Lose Gravel, I looked up to the sky and TAUNTED GOD, "If You want me, you can take me any where you want to on this mile!" And I leaned out over the handle bars with NO HELMET, so that way I was sure to hit head first when I lost control.

With the throttle wide open, and leaning over the handle bars for the whole mile, that bike DID NOT EVEN WOBBLE. It was as if I was riding on pavement. That was about 01:30 AM. I backed the throttle off, went home and sat up thinking about what had happened, sobering up, and then as I was about to go to bed at approximately at 05:00 AM, something happened that dropped me to my knees. As I walking into the Bedroom, I REALIZED, that GOD HAD INTERVENED YET AGAIN. I KNEW HE HAD TO HAVE REACHED DOWN AND HELD THAT BIKE STEADY, as if to say, "KNOW YOU DON'T, I HAVE A PLAN FOR YOUR LIFE."

As I fell to my knees, WAVE, AFTER WAVE of guilt over my WHOLE LIFESTYLE washed over me. I was WEEPING and Bawling like a baby, as I CRIED OUT TO HIM, "Forgive Me, Forgive Me! Lord if you have a purpose for my life, you have to come into my life and live it, because I CAN'T LIVE LIKE THAT. I am making a Total Mess of my Life." I continue to weep and asking HIM FOR FORGIVENESS for about another hour. Sometime I found that I was Prostrate face down on the floor.

What happened next, I usually leave out when telling my Testimony, because I fear most would want to make fun of it. But some how, I think this will be important to someone. Either I fell asleep for a little while and had the most VIVID Dream I ever had, or HE gave me a vision. I found myself kneeling at the Foot of the Cross, my Crying uncontrollably, crying, "Forgive Me, Forgive Me!" EVERY SIN I EVER COMMITTED WAS LIKE ANOTHER ONE POUND WEIGHT, pulling all the more on HIS nails. And there were so MANY. As I noticed the NAILS, they were in HIS wrists. NO ONE EVER TOLD ME THAT THE JEWS CONSIDER THE WRISTS TO BE PART OF THE HANDS. I never knew that before. AND then I SAW THE BLOOD DRIP, AND FALL, AND I COULD FEEL THE BLOOD WAS WARM AS IT FELL ON MY OUTSTRETCHED FOREARMS. I knew that meant I was FOREGIVEN!


Whether it was a Dream, or Vision, I do not know, that was where it ended. AND KNOW NO ONE HAD EVER TAUGHT ME ABOUT BEING BORN AGAIN, OR ETERNALLY ALIVE IN MY SPIRIT IN THE CHURCH WERE I GREW UP IN, and eventually left. BUT I KNEW HE AND THE HOLY SPIRIT WERE IN ME. I KNEW HE HAD A PLAN FOR MY LIFE, and I TRUSTED HIM TOTALLY. I have seen so many minor miracles in my life, and some Big Ones, there IS NO MORE TURNING BACK, NOT A SINGLE TIME OF DOUBT IN HIM, AND HIS CONTROL OVER MY LIFE HAS BEEN AWESOME. YES I AM ABSOLUTELY CONFIDENT THAT HIS SPIRIT BROUGHT MY HUMAN SPIRIT TO BE ETERNALLY ALIVE. I will tell the rest of my story, and How HE used me, some other time.

But PLEASE, do not ever tempt the LORD our GOD the way I DID. DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT SUICIDE, IT IS DEFINITELY THE WRONG WAY. IF YOU KNOW ANYONE WHO IS THINKING ABOUT SUICIDE, YOU HAVE MY PERMISSION TO LET THEM READ MY TESTIMONY.
Love you brother, I was born again about one year after you, Sept. 25th, 1978, and never looked back.
Your testimony has touched my heart in so many ways all I can say is Praise God He is so wonderful.

[video=youtube;P1SfQJb6GcE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1SfQJb6GcE[/video]
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,028
60
48
gb9,

How do you reconcile your definitions of grace and gift with the parable of the merciful king?

You are saying that LLH has rejected the definition of grace and gift and made up his own.

You on the other hand seem to be ignoring or rejecting the words of Jesus as an example of how his grace and gifts work. A perfect example of how he gives his gift of grace freely.

Please reconcile your definition of grace and gift with the parable of the merciful king. Thank you. It would be helpful to all of us on the forum.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,028
60
48
Hi gb9, and thank you for a clear definition of grace whereby Christians are set free and placed into God's family. Unfortunately people like LightLoveHope aka, PeterJens a lier and a fraud, will take the glorious Grace of God and crush it under foot and then insult a whole group of Christians and then he finishes his insult with LOL. Christianchat.com Moderators should take note of these insults and do what is appropriate to maintain a wonderful Christian website.
Would you also be willing to reconcile the definition of grace and gift that gb9 gave us with the parable that Jesus gave us of the merciful king. Thank you. It will be beneficial for all on the forum.
 
Jan 25, 2018
673
9
0
More of my Testimony is on Post #35421 on this Thread.

I am just a Sinner Saved by Grace. I find it strange that few have that DEEP REMORSE OVER THEIR SINS, but who am I to judge. Yes, I have a intolerance for FALSE DOCTRINES, but NEVER for the SINNER SAVED BY GRACE. In Fact, like Paul, I have to consider my self the Chiefest of Sinners.

1 Timothy 1:15-17 (NKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.


Every moment of ANGER wrongfully is SIN; Every moment of Greed or Uncaring for any reason, especially because I am to Busy doing something else, is SIN, etc.; and I am YET convicted of SIN once again. I even Confess every time I notice that I am driving over the Speed Limit accidentally; because HE SAID - I AM TO BE SUBMISSIVE TO EVERY ORDINANCE OF MAN FOR THE LORDS SAKE.

You made a statement that I disagree with, when you said "those who later stumbled and fell, maybe irretrievably."
IF WE TRULY WERE BORN AGAIN, we still are. How much of your sins were yet future when we HE PAID FOR THEM ALL?


Romans 5:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.


1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.


But I am convinced that genuine REMORSE over Sin, is part of the Repentance process.
Amen, all believers are sinners saved by grace that we have nothing to boast about.

You made a statement that I disagree with, when you said "those who later stumbled and fell, maybe irretrievably."
IF WE TRULY WERE BORN AGAIN, we still are. How much of your sins were yet future when we HE PAID FOR THEM ALL?
Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted.
Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.
If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself.
Galatians 6:1-3

Jesus talks of the seed and the sower some springing up quickly but when
trouble comes they fall away.

I can just reflect this in some people I know. It is not for me to judge or
make conclusions. Strangely my love in not judging others or closing the door
saying they must not be a believers or know the Lord.

And how can believers reject so strongly walking in Jesus's ways and those who
encourage such a thing? This is the only "sin" I am guilty of, yet from the reaction
you would think I am the worst person ever, evil beyond description or someone said
a blasphemer. It makes you wonder what some actually believe and do they know
their own hearts and others, because this language is the most discouraging judgemental
and damaging a believer could ever receive unless they were truly grounded in Christ.

I have found sometimes when people find God in a real way, they then judge everyone as
lost who they think is like them before, not seeing they can only speak for their own walk
and not others.

Now a loving heart, knows how to draw people to the loving King. Praise the Lord He found
you and has ministered to you over the years, Grace and peace to you in Christ Jesus, Amen.
 
Last edited:

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
4,648
692
113
1.
John 6:44 - No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

God calls us to the way and the truth (Jesus)
_____________


2.
John 3:3 - Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Ezekiel 36:26
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

we become as children.... His children born again... new creatures
________________
3.

1 Peter 1:23
“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.”

ephesians 1

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

this is forever... we are already His children... sealed by God
______________

4.


1 John 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.


those who fall from belief.... are not of those who are born again.... never Gods children... their departure shows how genuine their faith truely was

________________

5.


Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

romans 4 : 5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Ephesians 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
John 3:36 - He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


it is by belief you are born again.... a genuine faith in Jesus as your SAVIOR....




Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

it is HIS Holy righteousness that will save me... by HIS grace and mercy... not my own.... dont be like the pharisees




____________


Matthew 5:20
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Romans 10:3
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
6,360
314
83
Love you brother, I was born again about one year after you, Sept. 25th, 1978, and never looked back.
Your testimony has touched my heart in so many ways all I can say is Praise God He is so wonderful.

[video=youtube;P1SfQJb6GcE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1SfQJb6GcE[/video]

WOW, I know where that TETONS picture is located. After GOD brought a godly woman into my life, and we went on trip to Yellow Stone, a couple years before we moved to California. I walked up to that point where the stream emptied into that LAKE, and tried my luck fishing for a bit. The TETONS in the background were a joy to view what the LORD had Made, it was a little bit south of Yellow Stone. No Fish though. That is the scene was when the "This Is My Story" begins.
 
Jan 25, 2018
673
9
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NNM, where is conviction, repentance, confession, forgiveness, faith, obedience?

You seem to only have faith and regeneration.
What you have preached would achieve very little and would be regarded as just religion.

For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!
Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned--
Romans 5:10-12

All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.
2 Corinthians 5:18-20


I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.
Acts 20:21
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
4,648
692
113

number 5

i wouldnt forget that
:)


after all it is by grace through faith we are saved


(note: my post is on how to be saved... become a born again believer sealed by the power of God... not the fruits of the spirit that follow)
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
4,648
692
113
number 5

i wouldnt forget that
:)


after all it is by grace through faith we are saved


(note: my post is on how to be saved... become a born again believer sealed by the power of God... not the fruits of the spirit that follow)
1.
John 6:44 - No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

God calls us to the way and the truth (Jesus)
_____________


2.
John 3:3 - Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Ezekiel 36:26
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

we become as children.... His children born again... new creatures
________________
3.

1 Peter 1:23
“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.”

ephesians 1

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

this is forever... we are already His children... sealed by God
______________

4.


1 John 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.


those who fall from belief.... are not of those who are born again.... never Gods children... their departure shows how genuine their faith truely was

________________

5.


Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

romans 4 : 5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Ephesians 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
John 3:36 - He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


it is by belief you are born again.... a genuine faith in Jesus as your SAVIOR....




Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

it is HIS Holy righteousness that will save me... by HIS grace and mercy... not my own.... dont be like the pharisees




____________


Matthew 5:20
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Romans 10:3
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

bump in case you missed it

;)
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,095
968
113
so, in simple words, you reject the actual definition of the word grace and make up your own.

why do you refuse to actually accept what words actually mean?
It contradicts his erroneous position! Simple as!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,095
968
113
I am talking about the definition of the word grace. you ignored the meaning, and jumped to the parable.

the meaning of the parable of the merciful king is this- the servant who was shown grace and mercy should have shown the person who owed him a far less amount the same. this backs ups Jesus's golden rule- do onto others as you would hav them do onto you.

this does not mean that the definition of grace is changed. I gave the N.T., first definition of the word charis. if you do like that definition, take it up with the writers of the N.T. they used it.
Better yet....take it up with God...he inspired the word used
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
1,829
467
83
Would you also be willing to reconcile the definition of grace and gift that gb9 gave us with the parable that Jesus gave us of the merciful king. Thank you. It will be beneficial for all on the forum.
No I would not. As soon as one question is answered you will have a 1000 more to ask so please excuse me. Plus I am going through a 6 month treatment for prostate cancer and I just do not have the energy. I am sure there will be some who will fulfill your request but not me.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,028
60
48
Better yet....take it up with God...he inspired the word used
Let me explain the parable of the merciful king so you can see why LLH brought it up.
The master summons his subject that owes him a large amount of money. The debtor begs for more time. The king has mercy on him and gives him a great gift and forgives him all that the debtor owes him.

The debtor turns around and summons a person that owes him a small amount of money and demands it now. The person begs for time, but the debtor does not forgive him and sends him to prison.

When the master hears about his unforgving debtor, he summons him before him and takes away the gift of forgiveness of debt and throws him into prison to be tortured until he pays back every penny.

Jesus adds after he taught this parable, [FONT=&quot]“This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”

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So what is the meaning of this parable.

You can be given a free gift of grace and all your sins can be removed, but you can also do things that can jeopardize this free gift and it can be taken away. In this case if you are not merciful and forgiving your Father will not forgive you of your sins, and no forgiving of sins means you are not saved.

Good parable that supports the words of Jesus in Matthew 6:15. If you do not forgive, my Father will not forgive you. What this looks like to me is that you can say you have faith all day long, and you can have a lot of trust in Jesus and you can think that you are saved, but if you cannot be merciful and forgive men their trespasses against you, you are not going to finally be saved.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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A message to this forum please excuse me. I'm on a mission with Jesus and the Holy Spirit to overcome prostate cancer. Some days are good other days are not. The reason for this post is so that in my absence you will understand why. And by the way I wake up with a smile on my face every
morning that Jesus puts there. God is great!
 
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