Not By Works

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joefizz

Senior Member
Apr 23, 2017
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Technology can make you read so fast now a days,who knew?...

In case anyone is wondering I didn't post this image intentionally 3 times sometimes the images don't show up for awhile lol.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
5,039
468
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A message to this forum please excuse me. I'm on a mission with Jesus and the Holy Spirit to overcome prostate cancer. Some days are good other days are not. The reason for this post is so that in my absence you will understand why. And by the way I wake up with a smile on my face every morning that Jesus puts there. God is great!
Will be thinking off you TT.
Will be praying for you.

Jesus we pray for healing from prostate cancer.
In your name.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,010
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No I would not. As soon as one question is answered you will have a 1000 more to ask so please excuse me. Plus I am going through a 6 month treatment for prostate cancer and I just do not have the energy. I am sure there will be some who will fulfill your request but not me.
.

Thank you, that was honest. May the Lord bless you, to heal your prostate.
 

joefizz

Senior Member
Apr 23, 2017
13,422
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1.
John 6:44 - No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

God calls us to the way and the truth (Jesus)
_____________


2.
John 3:3 - Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Ezekiel 36:26
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

we become as children.... His children born again... new creatures
________________
3.

1 Peter 1:23
“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.”

ephesians 1

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

this is forever... we are already His children... sealed by God
______________

4.


1 John 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.


those who fall from belief.... are not of those who are born again.... never Gods children... their departure shows how genuine their faith truely was

________________

5.


Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

romans 4 : 5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Ephesians 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
John 3:36 - He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


it is by belief you are born again.... a genuine faith in Jesus as your SAVIOR....




Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

it is HIS Holy righteousness that will save me... by HIS grace and mercy... not my own.... dont be like the pharisees




____________


Matthew 5:20
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Romans 10:3
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Yes that is one of the "main points" of being saved and born again,you are no longer your old self,and you are "never alone" and you "cannot sin willfully without being convicted by the holy spirit" it is not a "picnic".
To put things in perspective being saved and receiving the holy spirit is like "past pleasures" and "wants" being gradually over lapped by what Jesus wants us to be and "our thoughts" being shifted gradually to what Jesus wants us to think on such as scriptures "more abrubtly" coming to mind where as before "scriptures" were like "closed doors to wisdom" that only interested us for a time or for "justification" for our sins "to open"and then "close again" when "uninterested" where as through the holy spirit it's like "wisdom from God's word" becoming as if doors "open wide without even a lock to possibly shut the wisdom out with".
 
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Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
2,042
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Why should we know yet, this debate has been on for 2000 years
Too many go round and round over this issue. Having worked in the complex world of electronics and software I found the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) method useful. So how does the law, sin, faith, and works relate to each other?

Jesus said the law is in place until heaven and earth pass away. Therefore we are under the 613 rules of the law as written in the Torah.
Sin is transgression of the law and we all sin.
The wages of sin is death.
Faith in Jesus removes the penalty of sin.
This faith produces works.

No works means dead faith.
Dead faith means we are still under the penalty of sin.
 
Dec 22, 2017
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That is why I believe that faith and works are eternally tied together. If you have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, good works will follow you all your days. Your faith will grow and develope as the grain of a mustard seed grows from a very small seed to a great and mighty tree. So does your compassion for your fellow men, and good works become a hall mark.

Now do these good works save you, no, but I can guarantee you that if you say you have great faith in Jesus Christ and good works do not follow, I know your supposed great faith will not save you either. Faith and good works are tied together. The parable of the talents is a perfect example of how Jesus works with his own faithful servants.
If only people would open their hearts and minds and even their eyes and ears to the TRUTH and admit to themselves that a DEAD FAITH CANNOT SAVE, there will be no quarrels, strife, arguments and misunderstandindgs, abuse, insults and cursings esp. apparent on a CHRISTIAN forum like this.

I just hope that everyone will contribute something for the benefit of the readers and the edification of the church acting as MATURE CHRISTIANS.

Philippians 3:12-15 Pressing on Toward the Goal Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.[/I][/U][/I][/B]

Hebrews 5:11-14 Warning Against Falling Away We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

James 1:4 Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.

Ephesians 4:12-16 to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
 
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Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
2,042
37
48
If only people would open their hearts and minds and even their eyes and ears to the TRUTH and admit to themselves that a DEAD FAITH CANNOT SAVE, there will be no quarrels, strife, arguments and misunderstandindgs, abuse, insults and cursings esp. apparent on a CHRISTIAN forum like this.

I just hope that everyone will contribute something for the benefit of the readers and the edification of the church acting as MATURE CHRISTIANS.

Philippians 3:12-15 Pressing on Toward the Goal Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.[/I][/U][/I][/B]

Hebrews 5:11-14 Warning Against Falling Away We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

James 1:4 Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.

Ephesians 4:12-16 to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
Since the carnal mind is enmity against God expect a lot of fighting over the everything.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
5,039
468
83
If only people would open their hearts and minds and even their eyes and ears to the TRUTH and admit to themselves that a DEAD FAITH CANNOT SAVE, there will be no quarrels, strife, arguments and misunderstandindgs, abuse, insults and cursings esp. apparent on a CHRISTIAN forum like this.

I just hope that everyone will contribute something for the benefit of the readers and the edification of the church acting as MATURE CHRISTIANS.

Philippians 3:12-15 Pressing on Toward the Goal Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.[/I][/U][/I][/B]

Hebrews 5:11-14 Warning Against Falling Away We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

James 1:4 Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.

Ephesians 4:12-16 to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
Yes if only people would people open their hearts and minds to the truth.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
23,391
1,333
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Yes if only people would people open their hearts and minds to the truth.
Yes, if only people would stop pretending anyone says a dead faith can save.

But I guess that is akin to asking them to stop presenting God's
grace as a license to sin. It is just one of many lies they tell.
 
Dec 4, 2017
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You rebuked nothing pal....but I will give you credit for being delusional!
Well, i had a conversation with the Redeemer last night.
And he gave me a something to Encourage us all with.

The Good News(you know Gospel)


So here is something for everyone who wants to participate.
Go out today, tonight, and the next few days. Everyone you meet Greet them with,, "Salvation Foundation!..", and then tell them to go and tell their friends also'"Salvation Foundation"

Nothing more nothing less.

And Lets see If God Hears your Petition,..stranger
 
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Dec 28, 2016
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Well, i had a conversation with the Redeemer last night.
And he gave me a something to Encourage us all with.

The Good News(you know Gospel)


So here is something for everyone who wants to participate.
Go out today, tonight, and the next few days. Everyone you meet Greet them with,, "Salvation Foundation!..", and then tell them to go and tell their friends also'"Salvation Foundation"

Nothing more nothing less.

And Lets see If God Hears your Petition,..stranger
So you haven't set aside your Montanism yet? You really should.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
2,042
37
48
Yes if only people would people open their hearts and minds to the truth.
There have been differences of opinion on all kinds of theological issues since the early church. The elders back then created the Apostles Creed to define who is and isn't a Christian. All other issues we just have to agree to disagree on and still accept each other as brothers and sisters in Christ!!
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
1,790
400
83
Too many go round and round over this issue. Having worked in the complex world of electronics and software I found the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) method useful. So how does the law, sin, faith, and works relate to each other?

Jesus said the law is in place until heaven and earth pass away. Therefore we are under the 613 rules of the law as written in the Torah.
Sin is transgression of the law and we all sin.
The wages of sin is death.
Faith in Jesus removes the penalty of sin.
This faith produces works.

No works means dead faith.
Dead faith means we are still under the penalty of sin. (A dead faith means you were never saved).
Are you trying to place Christians under the yoke of slavery when the bible makes it clear that we have been set free from the law. And your second point is equally as foolish, Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. James 2 has been gone through over and over again, Christians will have works but not unto salvation. We are saved unto good works not by them. Epheasians2:10 I can understand why an electronics engineer would find the complexity of the law appealing, but you have fallen from grace.

Jesus is the fulfillment of the law He kept the law perfectly, we could not and cannot today therefore Christ had to die and shed His blood on the cross. If you can keep the the law perfectly then Christ died needlessly. Of course you will not believe this.
"You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." Eph.5:4

Freedom In Christ
: Galatians 5:1-6

1) It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
3) Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.
4) You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
5) For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.
6) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
 
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dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,012
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Let me explain the parable of the merciful king so you can see why LLH brought it up.
The master summons his subject that owes him a large amount of money. The debtor begs for more time. The king has mercy on him and gives him a great gift and forgives him all that the debtor owes him.

The debtor turns around and summons a person that owes him a small amount of money and demands it now. The person begs for time, but the debtor does not forgive him and sends him to prison.

When the master hears about his unforgving debtor, he summons him before him and takes away the gift of forgiveness of debt and throws him into prison to be tortured until he pays back every penny.

Jesus adds after he taught this parable, [FONT=&quot]“This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”

[/FONT]
So what is the meaning of this parable.

You can be given a free gift of grace and all your sins can be removed, but you can also do things that can jeopardize this free gift and it can be taken away. In this case if you are not merciful and forgiving your Father will not forgive you of your sins, and no forgiving of sins means you are not saved.

Good parable that supports the words of Jesus in Matthew 6:15. If you do not forgive, my Father will not forgive you. What this looks like to me is that you can say you have faith all day long, and you can have a lot of trust in Jesus and you can think that you are saved, but if you cannot be merciful and forgive men their trespasses against you, you are not going to finally be saved.
The reason that you do not need to explain anything to me is because I will never buy your errors....especially your cake taking false losable salvation...I suggest you actually trust Jesus biblically before your time under the sun is up!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,012
848
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Yes, if only people would stop pretending anyone says a dead faith can save.

But I guess that is akin to asking them to stop presenting God's
grace as a license to sin. It is just one of many lies they tell.
Amen.......not likely to change though!
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
1,986
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Jesus says He is the Life, He is the Way, and He is the Truth.

Jesus IS Salvation. We enter through being reborn in Him. HE is eternal life.

He is the Vine. We are His branches. As a result of being reborn in Him the fruit of the Spirit flows out of us.

If our focus is on something other than Jesus I believe we've missed it.

It is because we ARE saved that we can call Him Lord.

1 John 4:4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.
4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.

Looking at this Scripture we see these statements: We have overcome. We are saved. We are His children.

Consider this:

If you think you're still being saved, how can you call yourself His children? By what power did you become His children? And if you became His children by the power of the Spirit, why do you think you can perfect yourself by the flesh?


 
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Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,696
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Only God knows the hearts of men.

Beware of disobedience being taught cloaked in the disguise of teaching of works.
Without works given by grace to each of us, there is no faith.

Beware of hateful attitudes being cloaked in the disguise of words of love. Love is not words alone but the content of the heart, soul and mind.

No one can earn salvation, but by disobedience and failing to do good works all could lose it.

Learn the difference between doing works given by the grace of God and thinking you are earning salvation........do not teach against God's gifts of works nor against obeying Him for He considers disobedience as witchcraft.

Jesus teaches us all about the above.
Jack, no-one is against works that follow salvation, and I've yet to meet anyone on here saying that grace gives us an excuse/pass to sin. The issue is when someone makes additional requirements for salvation, when it should be Jesus only.

Are you not contradicting yourself? You agree that salvation cannot be earnt, but when you say it must be maintained by us, aren't you then making obedience a necessary requirement, in addition to the cross?

This reminds me a bit of the legalism in Galatea, which Paul spoke against, where they were trying to add law (circumcision) to the finished work of Jesus, and trying to drag believers back to bondage, when they had been set free.

Which scriptures do you cling to, to support that bit I highlighted in red?