Not By Works

Pontiac · Mar 29, 2018

I would not go as far as to say that works has "zero" to do with salvation ... If that is true then how do you explain the verses below ? ...

James 2:26 [SUP]26[/SUP]As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
James 2:17-18 [SUP]17[/SUP]In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. [SUP]18[/SUP]But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

Truly I believe many are arguing here for no reason ... According to the Bibles many verses both works and faith have an impact upon one's salvation ...

graceNpeace · Mar 29, 2018

Pontiac said:

I would not go as far as to say that works has "zero" to do with salvation ... If that is true then how do you explain the verses below ? ...

James 2:26 [SUP]26[/SUP]As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
James 2:17-18 [SUP]17[/SUP]In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. [SUP]18[/SUP]But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

Truly I believe many are arguing here for no reason ... According to the Bibles many verses both works and faith have an impact upon one's salvation ...

Wrong wrong wrong

dcontroversal · Mar 29, 2018

Seohce said:

originally posted by ElAmor

dcon says:

….ALL who exercise saving faith into the work of Christ will have your sin debt covered, the imputed righteousness of Christ which = saved, sealed, justified and sanctified in Christ eternally…..

ElAmor

What do you mean by "exercise" isn't it to practice and not just say and claim or just a lip service? Do you preach about a genuine saving Faith without doing anything? Is preaching not a work? Assuming that Faith alone saves, can a person have Faith and be saved without someone preaching to them the Gospel of salvation?

If you are a preacher, can you say that you are not doing a work? If it is so then what are you doing? Is preaching the Gospel of our salvation irrelevant or unnecessary to our salvation? Does it embellish or add anything to your Faith ALONE doctrine?

dcon’s reply;

Take 1 second and actually think about and ponder what this thread is about.....serious.....it is about HOW ONE IS SAVED not WHAT THEY DO AFTER THEY ARE SAVED.....it IS FAITH ALONE THAT SAVES.....end of story........!

ElAmor

If “ Faith ALONE" saves, can one have faith without hearing the message? The verses below proves that a work is needed and essential to salvation….PREACHING.

It is not of ourselves that we may not boast.( ephesians 2:8-9 ) A Faith that works in Love.( galatians 5:6 ) A “selfless LOVE" that thinks about the welfare and SALVATION OF OTHERS and not just his own interests.( philippians 2:3-4, 1 john 3:16-18 )

Romans 10:14-17 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And HOW CAN THEY HEAR WITHOUT SOMEONE PREACHING TO THEM? And how can they preach UNLESS THEY ARE SENT? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” Consequently, FAITH COMES FROM HEARING THE MESSAGE, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

2 John 1:4-11 It has given me great joy to find some of your children WALKING IN THE TRUTH, just as the Father COMMANDED US. And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had FROM THE BEGINNING. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE. Many DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as COMING IN THE FLESH, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the DECEIVER and the ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who RUNS AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE in the TEACHING OF CHRIST does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him SHARES IN HIS WICKED WORK.

Who are those RUNNING AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST?

They are those who CLAIM SALVATION is by Faith ALONE and ONCE SAVED they are ALWAYS SAVED therefore rejecting God’s Laws and commands which are in fact God’s own words. says that even obedience to God cannot save anyone because they are works and Faith ALONE saves.

Who then is the deceiver and the ANTICHRIST?

They are those who do not continue in the teaching about WALKING IN LOVE which is WALKING IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. Who do not acknowledge Jesus as coming in the flesh by the mere fact that they reject the LAW that prophesied about Jesus as coming in the flesh.

1 John 2:1-6 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. THE MAN WHO SAYS, “I KNOW HIM,” BUT DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.

….-JESUS HIMSELF TAUGHT THAT WE SHOULD OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.

Matthew 19:17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

….Does the true Gospel teaches disobedience? NO!!!

The True Gospel teaches LOVE and OBEDIENCE and not DISOBEDIENCE.

So whoever is teaching that OBEDIENCE to the commandments cannot be added to FAITH for salvation is rejecting God’s and Jesus’ commands to walk in obedience to His commands and it is clear in the bible who they truly are. (2 john 1:1-11)lll

Romans 5:19 For just as through the DISOBEDIENCE of the one man the many were made SINNERS, so also through the OBEDIENCE of the one man the many will be made RIGHTEOUS.

Hebrews 5:7-9 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM.

Why are you quoting a person who has been banned and causing strife?

dcontroversal · Mar 29, 2018

Pontiac said:

And context would prove your stance as error.......

Romans-->We CONCLUDE a man is JUSTIFIED BY FAITH WITHOUT WORKS

JAMES speaks to the above faith being SEEN by MEN by works.....

There is no contradiction and WORKS HAVE ZERO to do with GAINING, KEEPING, MAINTAINING or EMBELLISHING salvation which is a FREE GIFT OF GRACE and eternal...

NOT BY WORKS of RIGHTEOUSNESS which we have DONE, but ACCORDING to HIS MERCY has he SAVED US (PAST TENSE)

Way to feed the working for trolls.....

Stunnedbygrace · Mar 29, 2018

Why don't men want to learn? I don't get it...

dcontroversal · Mar 29, 2018

Stunnedbygrace said:

More importantly is why cannot people read plain English that states clearly that we are saved by grace through faith and NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS>......

Seohce · Mar 29, 2018

dcontroversal said:

Originally Posted by dcontroversal
why is it hard for you to understand what I have said.....”JESUS WAS UNDER THE LAW “what he said had to be applicable to that time frame...HIS death RATIFIED a NEW COVENANT of GRACE, the CONDEMNATION of the LAW is no longer LEVELED at those who believe. And the words he speaks in MATTHEW MUST be vied in light of this truth. THOSE in CHRIST are NOT condemned by the LAW, but rather dealt with as CHILDREN and chastised...they are NOT cast away LOST, but whipped as a child to yield the peaceable fruits of righteousness.....again...the words have nothing to do with losing salvation.....salvation CANNOT be lost......rewards, honor and possible positions in the Kingdom as a ruler can be, but our standing as a child by BIRTH is eternally secure in Christ, as is our position!

Seohce

Romans 3:19-20 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

1 Timothy 1:9-11 We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

JESUS WAS BORN UNDER THE LAW BUT IT DOESN’T MEAN THAT HE IS UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES BECAUSE:

Hebrews 3:3 Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself.

Romans 7:12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

IF JESUS WAS UNDER THE LAW, AND WE KNOW THAT WHATEVER THE LAW SAYS,, IT SAYS TO THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW AND IT IS NOT MADE FOR THE RIGHTEOUS BUT FOR THE LAWBREAKERS, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF JESUS THEN? WAS HE NOT DECLARED RIGHTEOUS?

IF ANYONE CLAIMS THAT HIS HEAD(JESUS) IS UNDER THE LAW THEN HE HIMSELF(THE BODY) IS UNDER THE LAW.

dcon said

...So genius....CURSED is everyone that hangs on a tree<----TELL us ALL what JESUS did when he was CRUCIFIED, HUNG on a CROSS and CRIED MY GOD, MY GOD why has thou forsake ME!...

NoNameMcgee and TruthTalk like this.

Seohce

GOD SAID THAT HE WILL NEVER LEAVE US NOR FORSAKE US.(heb 13:5)

DID GOD FORSAKE JESUS?

DO YOU NOW BELIEVE THAT GOD CAN FORSAKE US IF HE DECIDES TO, JUST TO BE PROVEN RIGHT?

Galatians 3:10,13-14 ALL WHO RELY ON OBSERVING THE LAW ARE UNDER A CURSE, for it is written: “cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

SO, CURSED ARE THOSE WHO ARE HUNG ON A TREE AND THEY ARE THOSE WHO DO NOT CONTINUE TO DO EVERYTHING WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW.

WAS JESUS DISOBEDIENT TO GOD’S LAWS AND COMMANDMENTS THAT HE SHOULD BE CURSED AND DESERVE TO BE HUNG ON A TREE?

OR WAS HE UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES TO DESERVE SUCH DEATH ON THE CROSS?

BUT WHAT DID HE SAY?

John 14:31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me. “Come now; let us leave.

LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW.(rom 13:10)

Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.

DID JESUS BECOME SIN FOR US?

Romans 8:3-4 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son IN THE LIKENESS OF SINFUL MAN TO BE A SIN OFFERING. And so HE CONDEMNED SIN IN SINFUL MAN, in order that the RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENTS OF THE LAW might be FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

WAS JESUS CURSED?

TO SAY THAT JESUS WAS “UNDER THE LAW” IS EQUIVALENT OR TANTAMOUNT TO DECLARING HIM AS “CURSED" FOR BEING HUNG ON A TREE (DIED ON THE CROSS) BASED ON WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY.

….ONLY LIARS AND DECEIVERS WOULD DO SUCH THING.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

...LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR.

TruthTalk · Mar 29, 2018

Pontiac said:

Hi Pontiac, does this verse have any impact on you; saved by grace, "not by works, so that no one can boast"

we are "saved unto good works" we are not save by our good works. It is Jesus who shed His blood on the cross that saves us, not our good works so that no one can boast. Does this make any sense to you? And also if I may ask, are you Catholic, yes or no. If you are Catholic it would help to understand what your theological background is and God bless.

Alive in Christ: Ephesians2:8-10
8) For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9) not by works, so that no one can boast.
10) For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Save to do good works but we are not saved by our good works, see the difference?

Seohce · Mar 29, 2018

dcontroversal said:

New International Version 1984 Deuteronomy 6:25 And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness.”

THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE JEWS IS THROUGH THE LAW.

ARE YOU TALKING TO THE JEWS ALL THESE TIMES OR IS IT REALLY JUST YOUR INTENTION TO DECEIVE AND DIVIDE OR JUST FOR SOME PERSONAL GAIN OR PROFIT?

Seohce · Mar 29, 2018

Not by works( NOT VOID OF WORKS) but by grace thru FAITH.(eph 2:8-9)
Justified by works and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.(james 2:24)
Faith that Worketh in Love.(gal 5:6)
Faith and Action Working TOGETHER.(james 2:22)

Salvation is by GRACE through FAITH and NOT BY WORKS(of ourselves).(#1)

It is NOT BY FAITH ALONE(#2)but it WORKS in LOVE(#3)thus FAITH & LOVE(works of obedience(romans 1:5) manifested in ACTION and in TRUTH)(1john 3:16-18)are working TOGETHER.(#4)

2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE: THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.

THE FIRST PHASE OF SALVATION IS TO BELIEVE IN THE ONE THAT GOD HAS SENT AND IN HIS WORD OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION.
(john 6:28-29, eph 1:13,romans 10:8-17).
THROUGH THIS FAITH WE WILL RECEIVE THE PROMISED HOLY SPIRIT(the Helper/Counsellor)(gal 3:14, john 14:16-17)

John 6:28-29 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the WORKS GOD REQUIRES?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to BELIEVE in the one he has sent.”

THE SECOND PHASE IS THE WORKING OUT OF THAT SALVATION AND REMAINING/CONTINUING IN THE FAITH TO THE END THROUGH OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL AND COMMANDMENTS, DOING GOOD WORKS. WALKING AS JESUS DID AND BEING A PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST WHO DOES THE WORKS BEING LED BY THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST WHO IS THE HEAD.

Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, HIS BODY OF WHICH HE IS THE SAVIOR.

1 Corinthians 12:28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.

John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has FAITH in me WILL DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father

1 Corinthians 15:2 By this gospel you are saved, iF YOU HOLD FIRMLY TO THE WORD I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Romans 1:5 Through him and for his name’s sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the OBEDIENCE that comes from FAITH.

Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always OBEYED—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—CONTINUE TO WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING.

Romans 6:16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—WHETHER YOU ARE SLAVES TO SIN, WHICH LEADS TO DEATH, OR TO OBEDIENCE, WHICH LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS?

2 Corinthians 9:13 Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, men will praise God for the OBEDIENCE THAT ACCOMPANIES YOUR CONFESSION OF THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else.

Ephesians 4:11-13 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to PREPARE God’s people FOR WORKS OF SERVICE, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the FULLNESS of Christ.

Romans 2:7 To those who by persistence in DOING GOOD seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Galatians 6:9 Let us not become weary in DOING GOOD, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

1 Timothy 6:18-19 Command them TO DO GOOD, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.

Hebrews 5:8-9 Although he was a son, he learned OBEDIENCE from what he suffered and, once made PERFECT, he became the SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION for all who OBEY HIM.

Matthew 19:16-17 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do TO GET ETERNAL LIFE?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.”

Matthew 25:21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful SERVANT You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. COME AND SHARE YOUR MASTER’S HAPPINESS!’

WE ARE SANCTIFIED BY THESE TRUTHS AS IT IS WRITTEN:
John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

James 1:22 BUT BE YE DOERS OF THE WORD AND NOT HEARERS ONLY deceiving your own selves.

Romans 2:13 (For it is not the hearers of the law who are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God: that WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS; and His commandments are not grievous.

1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed and in truth.

Ephesians 3:19 and to know this LOVE that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all THE FULLNESS OF GOD.

THE THIRD PHASE OF SALVATION IS SALVATION FROM GOD’S WRATH. THIS IS DEPENDING ON GOD’S MERCY AND JUDGMENT(JUSTICE).

Romans 9:15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

1 John 4:17 In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because IN THIS WORLD WE ARE LIKE HIM.

Matthew 12:36-37 But I tell you that MEN WILL HAVE TO GIVE ACCOUNT ON THE DAY OF JUDGMENT for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

John 16:8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father,(ref:john 14:12) where you can see me no longer; and in regard to judgment,(ref:hebrews 10:26-27) because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

Romans 2:5-10 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

Romans 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? FOR WE WILL ALL STAND BEFORE GOD’S JUDGMENT SEAT.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, NOT TO BEAR SIN, BUT TO BRING SALVATION to those who are waiting for him.

1 Peter 4:17-18 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY the gospel of God? And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the SINNERS.

John 7:17-18 If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who WORKS for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.

John 3:34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.

John 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

blue_ladybug · Mar 30, 2018

*Enters room*

Waves hello..

*Poof! Disappears*

Stunnedbygrace · Mar 30, 2018

That's one fast cat, man.

joefizz · Mar 30, 2018

blue_ladybug said:

Careful you might singe fur that way ninja vanish*pow*?...whoops wrong gas,*grabs smoke grenade,poof*.

blue_ladybug · Mar 30, 2018

Don't make me go all ninja on you... I have crazy ninja skillz..

joefizz said:

mailmandan · Mar 30, 2018

Pontiac said:

In a nutshell, man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-26).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*

dcontroversal · Mar 30, 2018

Seohce said:

When you can be honest with the truth and what I have said then address me, until then your deceptive tactics and mouthy responses which have no basis in truth and or actual facts do nothing but prove to all that you have no interest in the truth, but rather a strong hatred and indifference for the truth. The above quote proves yet again that you have no concept of the New Covenant and or the fact that both Jews and Gentiles have been folded in together under the same banner of grace, while ignoring the actual facts of why the law was given and that it deems both JEWS and GENTILES guilty before GOD! Nor does the LAW give or make ANYONE righteous BEFORE GOD!

dcontroversal · Mar 30, 2018

mailmandan said:

It is not that difficult to understand hey bro........those who wish to embellish the finished work of Christ with their own works to gain, keep or top off salvation state clearly that what Jesus has done is insufficient....it states that he is a weak god that cannot keep his promises and also at the same time makes him out to be false........too be honest it sickens and infuriates me......!

eternally-gratefull · Mar 30, 2018

benhur said:

Hogwash- He spoke of those who had a claimed faith only (hearers of the word but not doers) vs those who had true living faith (not only hearers of the word but doers) .

eternally-gratefull · Mar 30, 2018

benhur said:

Whatever,

I just take james ot say what he says.

WHat does it PROFIT a person if they CLAIM to have faith, but have no work? CAN THIS FAITH SAVE THEM?

You want to think people who say they have faith but has ZERO ZIP NADA works were saved then lost it. How could they be saved if they NEVER HAD WORKS?

You just want to keep your legalistic mumbo jumbo alive by attacking others, Good luck with that.

eternally-gratefull · Mar 30, 2018

benhur said:

we know he was NOT baptized AFTER he got saved. Unless you think someone came, removed him from the cross. Baptised him, and then rehung him on the cross before he died.

Not By Works

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