Not By Works

[Shamah]

None are "perfect", and none will ever be in this lifetime!

That imperfection (sin) is your condemnation, and mine!
To believe that trying to obey the Torah will result in your salvation is futile!

You are literally placing your faith in a hopelessly inconsequential object - the law!

However, Jesus Christ literally fulfilled the legal requirements of the law on your behalf - all you need to do is accept this fact,
"8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. " Eph 2:8-9

Unfortunately, as an Adventist, you are hopelessly mired in law-keeping......

YHWH saves, yet those that enter keep His Commands:

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”


Revelation 22:11-15, “He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy, let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart. And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood.”







[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”[/FONT]

 

[posthuman]

Then they asked him,
“What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered,
“The work of God is this: to believe in the one He has sent.”
(John 6:28-29)​

 

[Laish]

Then they asked him,
“What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered,
“The work of God is this: to believe in the one He has sent.”
(John 6:28-29)​

Blessings
Bill

 

[Shamah]

Then they asked him,
“What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered,
“The work of God is this: to believe in the one He has sent.”
(John 6:28-29)​

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 8:24, “Therefore I said to you that you shall die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.”

He is the sent one we must shamah...
[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 7:37-38, “This is the Mosheh who said to the children of Yisra’yl, ‘יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear.’ This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness with the Messenger who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, who received the living Words to give to us.”[/FONT][/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

*Mosheh wrote:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, “I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it.”

"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַע[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 3:22-23, “For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Studyman]

None are "perfect", and none will ever be in this lifetime!

That imperfection (sin) is your condemnation, and mine!
To believe that trying to obey the Torah will result in your salvation is futile!

You are literally placing your faith in a hopelessly inconsequential object - the law!

However, Jesus Christ literally fulfilled the legal requirements of the law on your behalf - all you need to do is accept this fact,
"8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. " Eph 2:8-9

Unfortunately, as an Adventist, you are hopelessly mired in law-keeping......

I am not SDA as I have stated many times. Jesus was not SDA either. Yet We both believe that the Sabbath created by the Word which became Flesh was made for man as it is written.

We all have works, the question is, whose works are they?

Eph. 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordainedthat we should walk in them.

The Word which became Flesh inspired this same teaching as the Word.

Jeremiah 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, (The Word which became Flesh) Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
17 Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.


I believe in this Messiah, my High Priest.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.


The Word which became Flesh warned me of "Many" who would tell lies about God. (to deceive is to convince one of a lie)

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

I know you all preach that striving honor the Messiah with respect and obedience is a bad thing. But I can not accept this teaching. I must be "Faithful" to the one who purchased me, for I am not my own. As my Brother David said; "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path."

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Why on earth would I listen to anyone else.I appreciate your concern for my Spiritual well being. But I must believe in the Christ and His Word's over the preaching of men.

 

[TruthTalk]

And you say blah blah blah...
"Jesus became Sin for us"....!?????
that is the nuttiest bag of pecans from the nut house of religion that I have ever read or heard...
Jesus didn't "become sin" he was "without sin" but became a "sacrifice" for "our sins" quite a difference,and my remarks are in general only a mere "portion" of what might be said to you in a church congregation if you said such a thing.
Just a small critique of mine that might keep you from being a laughing stock and help you to think to "discern better" because honestly just saying "Jesus became sin" would make people question anyone's "credibility" or "understanding" of God's word because many scriptures point toward Jesus having "no sin" and therefore is easy to "retort" by way of scripture.

And you say blah blah blah...
"Jesus became Sin for us"....!?????
Jesus didn't "become sin" he was "without sin" but became a "sacrifice" for "our sins"
Just a small critique of mine that might keep you from being a laughing stock and help you to think to "discern better"

Hi Joe, isn't it true that; "God made him "who had no sin to be sin for us", However I could be wrong ya know.

The Ministry of Reconciliation: 2 Corinthians5:20,21

20) "We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.
21) God made him "who had no sin to be sin for us", so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

 

[preacher4truth]

I agree 100%. What gets me is how every one attacks when someone says the Law/His Commandments is the right way to behave...

But it makes sense I guess;

Revelation 12:17, Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

First, I'd be cautious in equating those you're speaking of with "the dragon." Secondly, the passage isn't referring to the converted being under OT Law, or under law keeping.

 

[TruthTalk]

Hey bro....I suggest you read the following....

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

poieó: to make, do​

Original Word: ποιέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: poieó
Phonetic Spelling: (poy-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I do, make
Definition: (a) I make, manufacture, construct, (b) I do, act, cause

Hi decon, I see you reconciled Joefizz's correction, thank you and please disregard my post above.....

 

[miknik5]

Then they asked him,
“What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered,
“The work of God is this: to believe in the one He has sent.”
(John 6:28-29)​

The will and the work of God are clearly stated in John 6.

Good post!

 

[Studyman]

First, I'd be cautious in equating those you're speaking of with "the dragon." Secondly, the passage isn't referring to the converted being under OT Law, or under law keeping.

2 Cor. 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

According to scriptures the "dragon" is very much associated with those who claim to know God.

And it will preach against the Commands and sayings of the Word which became Flesh, not for them.

 

[preacher4truth]

2 Cor. 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

According to scriptures the "dragon" is very much associated with those who claim to know God.

And it will preach against the Commands and sayings of the Word which became Flesh, not for them.

How ironic that you'd step in here!

The passage is about false teachers who preach the law is necessary, that the faith is not enough, so they must add in works.

You know, the same things you teach. Thus the passage you are using to slam those who are justified by faith is actually exposing you and your teaching.

Wow. Talk about deception and not seeing the forest for the trees sir. Unreal.

 

[dcontroversal]

HE THINKS HIS WORDS ARE SUPREME.

John 7:18 He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.

This proves you are nothing but a deceiver.....I constantly point to Christ.....

 

[dcontroversal]

The Word which became Flesh inspired it to be written that God's Law was not for the perfect (Righteous), but for those who are not yet perfect. That would be me.

I strive to honor The Word which became Flesh, but fall on occasion. I am thankful for God's Instructions which turn me again towards Him.

I am comforted and encouraged by His Teaching.

1 Cor. 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

I know there is an accuser pointing to my guilt.

But my Faith is in the "works" of the Word which became Flesh.

My faith is in Jesus and his imputed righteousness which puts an end to some legalistic law keeping working for dogma...

 

[dcontroversal]

None are "perfect", and none will ever be in this lifetime!

That imperfection (sin) is your condemnation, and mine!
To believe that trying to obey the Torah will result in your salvation is futile!

You are literally placing your faith in a hopelessly inconsequential object - the law!

However, Jesus Christ literally fulfilled the legal requirements of the law on your behalf - all you need to do is accept this fact,
"8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. " Eph 2:8-9

Unfortunately, as an Adventist, you are hopelessly mired in law-keeping......

AMEN bro.....nor is a cafe blend of JESUS and works or law keeping acceptable as a belief system that leads to salvation.

 

[dcontroversal]

Then they asked him,
“What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered,
“The work of God is this: to believe in the one He has sent.”
(John 6:28-29)​

The simplicity found in Christ....muddled and befuddled by the working for, sinless, perfectionist law keepers....

 

[Seohce]

This proves you are nothing but a deceiver.....I constantly point to Christ.....

dcon says;

BLAH BLAH BLAH more working for pseudo salvation.....My bible teaches salvation is a present CURRENT possession.....

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy HAS HE SAVED US <--PAST TENSE

YES..JESUS did become SIN for us....<--Only a deceiver would reject this truth as well....

He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

JESUS was BORN of a WOMAN, BORN UNDER THE LAW and “was CURSED” when he hung on a TREE....<--Only deceivers would reject the word of God which states as much....

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us-- for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE "

FOLKS any and all who deny the above truths have proven they are not of GOD....DO NOT BELIEVE POST 59510..HE DENIES these truths and supplants them with HALF truths and deceit just like the garden when the serpent removed and then added his own words to the bible.......

Seohce

...”JESUS was BORN of a WOMAN, BORN UNDER THE LAW and “was CURSED” when he hung on a TREE....<--Only deceivers would reject the word of God which states as much....”

THIS IS A CLEAR DECLARATION BY DCON THAT JESUS WAS “CURSED”.

I DECLARE THAT OUR LORD JESUS IS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD, PURE, HOLY AND UNDEFILED. HE IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE AND THE WORD THAT BECAME FLESH.

SINCE WHEN HAS THE GOSPEL CHANGED?

... THAT IF YOU CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH “JESUS IS LORD” …...AND YOU WILL BE SAVED. (rom 10:9)

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

God has said, “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.” So we say with confidence, “The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?” Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. Jesus Christ is THE SAME yesterday and today and forever.(heb 13:5-8)

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

Isaiah 5:20-24 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel.

WOE TO THOSE WHO CALL JESUS “CURSED".

Matthew 12:36-37 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

 

[Endoscopy]

TEACHING THE WORD, is far, far more effective. In the conservative Evangelical type of Churches that I have attended ever since, the Sermons are about one hour long, and the Pastor teaches Verse by Verse. I thought Head Knowledge was all that I needed and sitting on a pew, but someone should have told me, "Sitting in a Garage does not make you a car, any more than sitting on a pew made me a Christian." Born Again is sincere HEART KNOWLEDGE. I was MISSING SALVATION by 18 inches, the distance between my Head and MY HEART. I was one of those that went through the WRONG GATE, and was on the road to the Destruction of Hell.

The Parable of the Gates is ONLY ABOUT PEOPLE WHO CALL THEMSELVES CHRISTIANS.


Matthew 7:13-14 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.


Why do you think HE told Peter three times to FEED MY SHEEP?

Which means TEACH THEM MY WORDS, explain it, and how it applies to our lives. AND JESUS IS AUTHOR IN EVERY VERSE and including Gen.1:1 and Rev 22:21.

He did not say, Recite My Creeds.

There are different effective methods used by Christian ministers. Each has its pros and cons. It is why membership falls sometimes with a change of ministers. It usually picks up again after a time. If membership keeps declining the elders will have to deal with it. I lived it. As an elder I was forced to work with the other elders and replace a minister I loved and respected. His issue was he could never say I'm sorry. People getting close to him would all of a sudden drop out of the church. Investigation showed those who left felt betrayed by him and when they tried to talk to him he just ignored them. Lost a quarter of the congregation with this. A retired former minister of the church told us the survival of the church takes precedence over the minister when the elders met privately to discuss the issue.

 

[posthuman]

Eph. 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordainedthat we should walk in them.

do you not believe in the power of the One who created us unto His works such that you feel some kind of need to present them as a "Law" that must be kept on threat of eternal damnation?

is He unable to bring us to do His will without the coercion of fear and terror?

doncha trust that He knows what He is doing when He creates us in Christ?

we should be acting on account of being filled with thankfulness and joy -- not browbeaten into servitude. a slave has to be ordered about and told how to behave, and he is cast out, beaten or even killed for disobedience; a son sees what his father does, and joins him in it -- and remains a son even when he does what is wrong.

so which did we receive, a spirit of fear or one that cries 'abba' ?
and how did we receive this spirit?

"not by works"

 

[Endoscopy]

And they do harmonize when viewed in context which is.......

Romans-->A man is justified before GOD by faith without works
James-->The above faith which justifies before GOD without works is SEEN and JUSTIFIED before MEN by works

End of story....JAMES is not saying that works save, keep save or render a man just and saved before GOD......

We are saved by grace through faith.
Faith without works is dead.

These are 2 quotes from the Bible. Explain why works are not required to prove a valid faith.

 

[dcontroversal]

We are saved by grace through faith.
Faith without works is dead.

These are 2 quotes from the Bible. Explain why works are not required to prove a valid faith.

Already have.......and jut like immersion, you reject, push a document by men and claim to be a Christian for 69 years.......