Not By Works

[TruthTalk]

As I requested give the other texts that contradict this statement of James.

You will not believe because you are still trying to, "Save Yourself" Impossible, think about that.

Luke16:30,31
30) No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31) “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”

Maybe you’ve heard it said that text taken out of context makes it a pretext and usually a false one at that. This is true. That’s how cults are started. When we take text out of their context we are stripping the meaning of the verses and give them a different, and usually a wrong meaning. Far too many people try and find one Bible verse and come up with a doctrine but that’s not the way to read the Bible. When we want to take out or interpret Scripture properly, we need to read the entire paragraph, the entire chapter, and sometimes the entire book. To take one verse and use it to build a belief system is highly fraught with error. The result is that Bible verses are taken out of context and misapplied.

Read more: https://www.whatchristianswanttokno...ses-often-taken-out-of-context/#ixzz5BR1tefe4

 

[SavdbyGracethtwrks]

It's sad to see that the very debate going on in the Jerusalem council is still alive and well.
WE ARE NOT SAVED BY WORKS IT IS A FREE GIFT!
BUT TO REMAIN IN SIN ONCE WE HAVE BEEN SET FREE OF IT IS TO CALL THE MESSIAH'S BLOOD A COMMON THING!

ALL FAITH HAS OBEDIENCE BEHIND IT, ABRAHAM BELIEVED YAHWEH AND GOT OUT OF UR - HE BELIEVED AND OBEYED
NOAH BELIEVED YAHWEH AND BUILT AND ARK - HE BELIEVED AND OBEYED

EVE BELIEVED THE SERPENT AND ATE - SHE BELIEVED AND OBEYED (the wrong voice)

MESSIAH SAID THE LAW AND PROPHETS WILL STAND TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY / THE DAY EVERYTHING WILL FINALLY BE FULFIILED. WILL YOU BELEIVE HIS VOICE AND OBEY?
IT DOES NOT GET MUCH SIMPLER THAN THIS.
THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN 2 VOICES
THE FATHER'S AND THE ADVESARY WHICH VOICE ARE YOU GOING TO OBEY?
THE WORD'S OF THE MESSIAH ARE WRITTEN IN RED CONCERNING THE LAW, DID HE LIE, DID HE NOT REALLY MEAN WHAT HE SAID, THESE ARE THE WORDS OF THE ENEMY SINCE THE BEGINNING.
EVEN IF WE SAY YEAH, BUT PAUL OVER HERE SEEMS TO SAY THIS.....CATCH YOURSELF! EITHER OUR UNDERSTANDING IS WRONG OR PAUL HIMSELF CALLS THE MESSIAH A LIAR.

DEUT. 18:18
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. 20But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. 21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which YAHWEH hath not spoken? 22When a prophet speaketh in the name of YAHWEH, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which YAHWEH hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

THERE'S ONLY 3 SIDES HERE:

WHAT THE MESSIAH SAYS IS TRUE
WHAT PAUL SAYS THAT CONTADICTS WHAT THE MESSIAH SAYS IS TRUE.
OR WE ARE NOT FULLY UNDERSTANDING PAUL AND HE DOES NOT CONTRADICT THE MESSIAH.

2 PETER 3:10

But the day of the Master will come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.11Therefore since all these things will be destroyed like this, what kind of people ought you to be in holy living and godliness, 12looking for and earnestly desiring the coming of the day of Elohim, which will cause the burning heavens to be dissolved, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13But, according to his promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
14Therefore, beloved, seeing that you look for these things, be diligent to be found in peace, without blemish and blameless in his sight. 15Regard the patience of our Master as salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote to you; 16as also in all of his letters, speaking in them of these things. In those, there are some things that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unsettled twist, as they also do to the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17You therefore, beloved, knowing these things beforehand, beware, lest being carried away with the error of the wicked, you fall from your own steadfastness. 18But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Yahushua The Messiah. To him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.

What is the error of the wicked Peter is talking about in verse 17, look it up and see for yourselves.

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:24-27, “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does them, shall be like a wise man who built his house on the rock, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not do them, shall be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat on that house, and it fell, and great was its fall.” [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

 

[dcontroversal]

Point out where James said anything like that. He was pointing out the difference between true and false faith. Works is the evidence of true faith. No works is evidence of false faith. Thus as he said, "Faith without works is dead." It is a method of seeing a wolf in sheep's clothing. Jesus warned us about them and told us to watch out for them. This is a method of seeing them. As the saying goes, "Actions speek louder than words." It is how Presbyterian USA was taken over be secular ministers by 1932 as documented by Gary North in Crossed Fingers. The other 7 sister churches have become secular as well. I met a man after an invitational evening service and in the refreshment time he told me he heard the gospel message for the first time even though he was a lifelong Lutheran. This country has gone from being almost 100% Christians to 25% or less. The church has a major fallout problem. The root cause is they don't teach the youth in Sunday School that big bang evolution defies 5 scientific laws. Then when they get to college and the profesors teach big bang evolution as fact they believe them and eventually cease going to church.

Christian Ministries International is a multinational science based Christian organization at creation.com. They created a DVD about the fallout issue. It is a good place to find science based evidence about Genesis being factual and being a young earth. For example they point out the grand canyon proves the flood. There are lines showing deposits in layers and proving they were created at one time not over millions of years since there is no erosion in any of the layers. Also there is Carbon-14 in Diamonds. The half life of Carbon-14 would have it gone over millions of years. Also coal was created not that long ago because man made objects have been founded imbedded in it like a hammer and a bell.

Of course a man who believes in law keeping and or works as part of salvation will gloss over...SHOW ME YOUR FAITH.......while disregarding WE conclude a man is justified BY FAITH without the deeds of the law (works)

and what does you last paragraph have to do with anything concerning what we are covering??

 

[dcontroversal]

For all to see....because this is disregarded so much by many on this site.....HEBREWS 10 is NOT about losing salvation and the CONTEXT is ABOUT FORSAKING the ASSEMBLING together and COUNTING the BLOOD of CHRIST a COMMON ORDINARY BASE THING.......IT IS WRITTEN TO HEBREWS who wish to GO BACK UNDER and INFERIOR WAY and there are/is NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SIN BECAUSE the BLOOD OF CHRIST IS SUFFICIENT to COVER ALL SIN in a BELIEVER...

Written to believes-->WHERE SIN ABOUNDS GRACE DID MUCH MORE ABOUND

con·text
ˈkäntekst/
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]

• the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.
  
  
  
  

 

[Endoscopy]

Are you serious, we have been giving you verse upon verse but you still will not believe. Okay here is one more for you from a different person but with the same belief... but hey like I said, If you had a 1000 verses you still will not believe. You must believe that Jesus paid the full price for your sin or you will die in your sin's. If you are working for your salvation you have fallen from grace. And this I say to you on "Resurrection Day", good grief man repent and believe the Gospel.

You cannot save yourself no matter how many good works you have, period, end of story.

What is a verse that you see taken out of context frequently? One verse we know that is in context says it all for those who have repented and trusted in Christ. Second Corinthians 5:21 says “For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” If you have not trusted in Christ, then God sees you as having filthy rags and if you stand in your own righteousness before God someday, then you will die in your sins. No one is ever going to be good enough to save themselves. Trust God, repent from your sins, confess them to God, and then trust in the only name that can save you from the wrath of God…Jesus Christ. He is the one and only way to the Father (John 6:44) and there is no other way than through Jesus Christ (John 14:6).

Read more: https://www.whatchristianswanttokno...ses-often-taken-out-of-context/#ixzz5BR1tefe4

You missed the point of my response to dcontroversal. He claims Bible only and nothing else. I set HIM an impossible task using Bible only. I could easily look it up in my Berkhofs ​Systematic Theology.

 

[dcontroversal]

There is so much wrong with this post that it would take 2 full pages of scripture in context to correct.......

It's sad to see that the very debate going on in the Jerusalem council is still alive and well.
WE ARE NOT SAVED BY WORKS IT IS A FREE GIFT!
BUT TO REMAIN IN SIN ONCE WE HAVE BEEN SET FREE OF IT IS TO CALL THE MESSIAH'S BLOOD A COMMON THING!

ALL FAITH HAS OBEDIENCE BEHIND IT, ABRAHAM BELIEVED YAHWEH AND GOT OUT OF UR - HE BELIEVED AND OBEYED
NOAH BELIEVED YAHWEH AND BUILT AND ARK - HE BELIEVED AND OBEYED

EVE BELIEVED THE SERPENT AND ATE - SHE BELIEVED AND OBEYED (the wrong voice)

MESSIAH SAID THE LAW AND PROPHETS WILL STAND TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY / THE DAY EVERYTHING WILL FINALLY BE FULFIILED. WILL YOU BELEIVE HIS VOICE AND OBEY?
IT DOES NOT GET MUCH SIMPLER THAN THIS.
THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN 2 VOICES
THE FATHER'S AND THE ADVESARY WHICH VOICE ARE YOU GOING TO OBEY?
THE WORD'S OF THE MESSIAH ARE WRITTEN IN RED CONCERNING THE LAW, DID HE LIE, DID HE NOT REALLY MEAN WHAT HE SAID, THESE ARE THE WORDS OF THE ENEMY SINCE THE BEGINNING.
EVEN IF WE SAY YEAH, BUT PAUL OVER HERE SEEMS TO SAY THIS.....CATCH YOURSELF! EITHER OUR UNDERSTANDING IS WRONG OR PAUL HIMSELF CALLS THE MESSIAH A LIAR.

DEUT. 18:18
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. 20But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. 21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which YAHWEH hath not spoken? 22When a prophet speaketh in the name of YAHWEH, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which YAHWEH hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

THERE'S ONLY 3 SIDES HERE:

WHAT THE MESSIAH SAYS IS TRUE
WHAT PAUL SAYS THAT CONTADICTS WHAT THE MESSIAH SAYS IS TRUE.
OR WE ARE NOT FULLY UNDERSTANDING PAUL AND HE DOES NOT CONTRADICT THE MESSIAH.

2 PETER 3:10

But the day of the Master will come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.11Therefore since all these things will be destroyed like this, what kind of people ought you to be in holy living and godliness, 12looking for and earnestly desiring the coming of the day of Elohim, which will cause the burning heavens to be dissolved, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13But, according to his promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
14Therefore, beloved, seeing that you look for these things, be diligent to be found in peace, without blemish and blameless in his sight. 15Regard the patience of our Master as salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote to you; 16as also in all of his letters, speaking in them of these things. In those, there are some things that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unsettled twist, as they also do to the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17You therefore, beloved, knowing these things beforehand, beware, lest being carried away with the error of the wicked, you fall from your own steadfastness. 18But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Yahushua The Messiah. To him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.

What is the error of the wicked Peter is talking about in verse 17, look it up and see for yourselves.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

There is so much wrong with this post that it would take 2 full pages of scripture in context to correct.......

so true....

 

[dcontroversal]

You missed the point of my response to dcontroversal. He claims Bible only and nothing else. I set HIM an impossible task using Bible only. I could easily look it up in my Berkhofs ​Systematic Theology.

You did nothing of the sort....well..maybe in your mind.......show me the verse or verses that state we are to go outside the bible as our rule of faith and practice.......and or prove the bible is not it's own best commentary!

 

[NoNameMcgee]

For all to see....because this is disregarded so much by many on this site.....HEBREWS 10 is NOT about losing salvation and the CONTEXT is ABOUT FORSAKING the ASSEMBLING together and COUNTING the BLOOD of CHRIST a COMMON ORDINARY BASE THING.......IT IS WRITTEN TO HEBREWS who wish to GO BACK UNDER and INFERIOR WAY and there are/is NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SIN BECAUSE the BLOOD OF CHRIST IS SUFFICIENT to COVER ALL SIN in a BELIEVER...

Written to believes-->WHERE SIN ABOUNDS GRACE DID MUCH MORE ABOUND

con·text
ˈkäntekst/
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]

• the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.
  
  
  
  

i see many of the false gospel pushers try to reject this....

it's sad really

 

[Endoscopy]

You did nothing of the sort....well..maybe in your mind.......show me the verse or verses that state we are to go outside the bible as our rule of faith and practice.......and or prove the bible is not it's own best commentary!

Let me refresh your memory. My question to you was to list ALL verses in the Bible both Old and New Testament about salvation using Bible only as you claim to do. Here is the challenge again. So start listing them.

I know this is an impossible task. That is why I have Berkhofs Systematic Theology. I go to salvation and there they are. There are several different Systematic Theology books and some with other titles doing the same thing. They are a useful resource to let you see EVERY VERSE on a topic.

 

[dcontroversal]

Let me refresh your memory. My question to you was to list ALL verses in the Bible both Old and New Testament about salvation using Bible only as you claim to do. Here is the challenge again. So start listing them.

I know this is an impossible task. That is why I have Berkhofs Systematic Theology. I go to salvation and there they are. There are several different Systematic Theology books and some with other titles doing the same thing. They are a useful resource to let you see EVERY VERSE on a topic.

I could care less about your books or your challenge....I have the bible.....line upon line, precept upon precept.....it tells me all I need to know......and again....quote verse, chapter and book that states I need to go outside the bible to extra biblical sources to learn the truth....

 

[Endoscopy]

i see many of the false gospel pushers try to reject this....

it's sad really

The problem is that there are and have been differences of opinion about many issues. There are and have been heresies as well. The elders in the early church created first the Roman Creed and within 100 years upgraded it to the Apostles Creed. Since differences of opinion was there the Apostles Creed defines what a Christian must believe. Everything else is agree to disagree.

Here is an example of two totally opposed views. Both of these are what a lot of Christians believe. If memory serves the Armenians first created their list and the Reformed/Calvinist responded with their corresponding list. There are denominations that are part one or the other as well. Baptists for example are part Reformed with a denomination that is fully Reformed

Reformed/Calvinist
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints

Armenianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace

 

[SavdbyGracethtwrks]

There is so much wrong with this post that it would take 2 full pages of scripture in context to correct.......

Please feel free do so. Since mostly everything I posted is scripture. Take it away. With scripture that backs it up please.

 

[VCO]

Exactly, and Messiah does not change, if we are dead to ourselves and He lives in us. Why is it ok to not follow the commands now?

<><.t.><>

It is NOT, but that does not make it part of SALVATION.

It means you do not LOVE HIM and NEVER HAVE.


1 John 3:14 (ESV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers.
Whoever does not love abides in death.


1 John 5:3 (CSBBible)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For this is what love for God is: to keep his commands.
And his commands are not a burden,


You see, when the Holy Spirit birthed our once dead Human Spirit into ETERNAL LIFE (the moment you first believed), HE gave us a NEW NATURE, and that is to LOVE GOD AND OUR LORD, and TO LOVE THE BRETHREN. It is no longer in our nature to NOT LOVE GOD more and more as we spiritually mature, and our fellow Believers. When you see someone that has fallen away, HE DID NOT LOSE HIS SALVATION, he only fell away from ACTING like a Christian:


1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

 

[dcontroversal]

Please feel free do so. Since mostly everything I posted is scripture. Take it away. With scripture that backs it up please.

I will just pull one out.....the following is false....she did not obey anyone..the bible states clearly she was DECEIVED...not that she BELIEVED and OBEYED.......as to the rest....like I said..two pages of scripture in context........

EVE BELIEVED THE SERPENT AND ATE - SHE BELIEVED AND OBEYED (the wrong voice)

 

[VCO]

The problem is that there are and have been differences of opinion about many issues. There are and have been heresies as well. The elders in the early church created first the Roman Creed and within 100 years upgraded it to the Apostles Creed. Since differences of opinion was there the Apostles Creed defines what a Christian must believe. Everything else is agree to disagree.

Here is an example of two totally opposed views. Both of these are what a lot of Christians believe. If memory serves the Armenians first created their list and the Reformed/Calvinist responded with their corresponding list. There are denominations that are part one or the other as well. Baptists for example are part Reformed with a denomination that is fully Reformed

Reformed/Calvinist
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints

Armenianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace

<><.t.><>

I only agree with 3 points of Calvinism and 2 points of Armenianism, what does that make me? A NORMAL CHRISTIAN THAT LOVES THE LORD. Those who want to continue this USELESS ARGUMENT, only want to CONTINUE THE ARGUMENT, and do not love their Brethren.


1 John 4:19-21 (ESV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love because he first loved us.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

 

[VCO]

I will just pull one out.....the following is false....she did not obey anyone..the bible states clearly she was DECEIVED...not that she BELIEVED and OBEYED.......as to the rest....like I said..two pages of scripture in context........

EVE BELIEVED THE SERPENT AND ATE - SHE BELIEVED AND OBEYED (the wrong voice)

Yeah!

She should have killed and eaten the snake.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I only agree with 3 points of Calvinism and 2 points of Armenianism, what does that make me?

That makes you a CAL-ARM-IST. Which is better than a simple alarmist.

 

[Nehemiah6]

She should have killed and eaten the snake.

Not if he was a talking dragon. She would have lost all her teeth.