Not By Works

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Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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Romans8:1
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

True Gospel
New International Version 1984 1 John 2:3-6 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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I hope some will appreciate this sermon
God bless!
The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector

A Sermon by Charles H. Spurgeon​

"I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other."
Luke18:14

The publican was justified rather than the Pharisee. The outwardly worse man of the two was accepted rather than the one who was apparently better. "This man went down to his house justified rather than the other." Observe, dear Friends, our Savior's gentle way of describing the contrast between these two men. He says that the publican was "justified rather than the other," but we all know that behind this mild and lenient expression, there is the sad and solemn Truth of God that the Pharisee was not justified at all.

There are also some persons who reckon themselves to be very good because they conceive themselves to have done almost more than they ought There is one family of the "Good-Enoughs" and there is another family of the "Too-Goods." They are cousins, I believe. Certainly, they are very closely related. This Pharisee belonged to the family of the "Too-Goods."

Alas, it is often the characteristic of hypocrites that they overdo one part and underdo another! Remember that striking simile in Hosea 7:8—"Ephraim is a cake not turned." What happens to a cake that is not turned? Why, it is done too much on one side and it is not done at all on the other! How many there are who always keep looking at their burnt side! "Oh," they cry, "we are baked and more than baked." Yes, but look at the other side of you, which God also sees— there, you are underdone. Oh, that we might have sense enough to look at ourselves in a true light and to see the whole of ourselves—for then our foolish self-righteousness would soon vanish!

What an awful sight that will be—a man everlastingly a martyr to his own pride! Even the demons in Hell might ask, "Why did that man come to Hell? Was he unjust?" No. "Was he an extortioner?" No. "Was he an adulterer?" No. "Then, why did he come here?" Because he would not go to Heaven by Grace!

"There is life for a look at the Crucified One, There is life at this moment for you"— if you will but look there for it! But if you will look only to yourself for it, you will perish in your iniquity and your blood will be upon your own head. God bless this word to all whom it concerns, for Jesus' sake! Amen.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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You cannot even quote me correctly, much less the gospel.....you said something akin to...50% of Christianity disagrees with me....and I said...more like 90%.....get your facts straight.....
Thank you decon for making this statement clear. I knew in my heart that benhur had changed your words and twisted everything you said. He was twisting my words and many others from the beginning. I would call that being deceitful and pure lies.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
Thank you decon for making this statement clear. I knew in my heart that benhur had changed your words and twisted everything you said. He was twisting my words and many others from the beginning. I would call that being deceitful and pure lies.
Isaiah 5:20-24 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel.

Psalm 49:13-14 This is the fate of those who trust in themselves, and of their followers, who approve their sayings. Selah Like sheep they are destined for the grave, and death will feed on them. The upright will rule over them in the morning; their forms will decay in the grave, far from their princely mansions.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,497
3,850
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I am not a liar. The reason God can go back on what he said is because people do not keep the promise. They reject God and so Jesus rejects them and pulls the promises he made. Jesus will not force any man to eternal life with God and Jesus. If you think about it, Jesus's promises are only as good as your word as a believer. (see the parable of the vine, the merciful king, and the sheep and the goats).

I am not a troll. I read what you say, but I do not believe what you say. You are an OSAS type Christian, and most Christians do not believe that doctrine. Decon says it could be 90% do not. I believe him.
<><.🕇.><>

BAPTIST BELIEFS ABOUT SALVATION:
. . . There is no salvation apart from personal faith in Jesus Christ as Lord. Regeneration, or the new birth, is a work of God's grace whereby believers become new creatures in Christ Jesus. It is a change of heart wrought by the Holy Spirit through conviction of sin, to which the sinner responds in repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Repentance and faith are inseparable experiences of grace. . . .

EVANGELICAL FREE CHURCH OF AMERICA BELIEFS ABOUT SALVATION:
That the shed blood of Jesus Christ and His resurrection provide the only ground for justification and salvation for all who believe, and only such as receive Jesus Christ are born of the Holy Spirit, and thus become children of God.

GRACE BRETHREN BELIEFS ABOUT SALVATION:
A complete and eternal salvation by God's grace alone, received as the gift of God through personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished work.

COMMUNITY CHURCHES BELIEFS ABOUT SALVATION:
We believe salvation is the gift of God’s grace given to all whom God has elected to salvation. It includes all that God does in saving the elect from the penalty, power, and presence of sin and in restoring them to a right relationship with God. As such, it is solely the work of God from initiation to completion. It cannot be gained by good works, but is a free gift for all who put their trust in Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross.

BIBLE CHURCHES BELIEFS ABOUT SALVATION:
Man is sinful and separated from God, and a reunion, called salvation, is possible only by faith in Jesus Christ, apart from works, through the regeneration of the Holy Spirit.

ASSEMBLY OF GOD BELIEFS ABOUT SALVATION:
We believe man's only hope of redemption is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Salvation is received through repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

PENTECOSTAL CHURCH BELIEFS ABOUT SALVATION:
Everyone has sinned and needs salvation. Salvation comes by grace through faith based on the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

WESLEYAN CHURCH BELIEFS ABOUT SALVATION:
We believe that for men and women to appropriate what God’s prevenient grace has made possible, they must voluntarily respond in repentance and faith. The ability comes from God, but the act is the individual’s.
. . .
We believe that when one repents of personal sin and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, that at the same moment that person is justified, regenerated, adopted into the family of God, and assured of personal salvation through the witness of the Holy Spirit.

We believe that justification is the judicial act of God whereby a person is accounted righteous, granted full pardon of all sin, delivered from guilt, completely released from the penalty of sins committed, by the merit of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, by faith alone, not on the basis of works.

MESSIANIC JEWISH CHURCHES BELIEFS ABOUT SALVATION:
Our only hope for redemption (salvation) is through the atonement made by the Messiah (Leviticus 17:11; Isaiah 53; Daniel 9:24-26; I Corinthians 15:22; Hebrews 9:11-14, 28; John 1:12, 3:36), resulting in regeneration by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5), which is the new birth (John 3:3-8). For by grace we are saved through faith, it is a gift of God (Ephesians 2:8-9).


I could go on, and on, but NOTHING SEEMS TO MATCH what you say about SALVATION.
Okay, only one more:


LUTHERAN BRETHREN CHURCH BELIEFS ABOUT SALVATION:
Eternal salvation is available to every living human being on earth
by God’s grace alone
through faith alone

in Christ alone.
This salvation consists of an instantaneous aspect and an ongoing, continual aspect.
  1. Justification is God’s gracious act by which He, for Christ’s sake, instantaneously acquits repentant and believing sinners and credits them with Christ’s righteousness. At that moment, God gives each one who believes a new and godly nature and the Holy Spirit begins the process of sanctification. There is no place for human effort in justification.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
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John 6:44-47
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
There is an assumption on your part that all you have to do is believe and you will have everlatsing life. That assumption is faulty.

Jesus did say if you believe on me you shall have everlasting life. But he has also said many other things about what is necessary to be saved. So if you put the many scriptures together, it goes like this.

If you believe me, you will do as I have commanded you, and you will have eternal life.
If you believe me, and you do not do as I have commanded, you will not have eternal life.

That is the result of all the scriptures that have to do with being saved. Ignore any of those scriptures and you have a faulty theology.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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There is an assumption on your part that all you have to do is believe and you will have everlatsing life. That assumption is faulty.
Well your wrong on your assumption of what he believes, Because he thinks it is way more than mere belief. And that assumption is faulty.

which means the rest of your post. based on your faulty assumption. is most likely in error also. so I will let it go
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
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OSAS is not a doctrine of the Church - Eternal Security is a doctrine of the Church.

As usual you are misguided in your theology and do not provide scripture to back up your false belief.
Remember what Decon says, ES is the doctrine of probably only about 10% of the churches. OSAS is probably the doctrine of another 20%, and the other 30% mix grace and faith and works, and the other 40% are all over the place.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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you are a liar

the Lord is not slack concerning His promises
He keeps every one of them
I've already explained every point you keep trying to make when you take these verses out of context but you keep asking the same questions unable to learn the truth
it is crazy to me how blind you are when so many brothers and sisters keep trying to help you and shine light on the truth
I do not go around lying. You know what the Lord thinks of a liar.

Here is the bottom line. Jesus did say in the scriptures that if you believe in him, you will have Eternal Life.

But Jesus has said a lot of other things about being saved. See parables on the merciful king, the vine, and the sheep and the goats.

If you take all the scriptures that have to do with being saved, you have to say this:

Jesus says, if you believe in me, you will do as I have commanded, and you will have eternal life.
If you believe in me, and do not what I have commanded, you will not have eternal life.

You ignore any of the myriad of scriptures that have to do with eternal life and it can look like Jesus is making a promise and then backing off of that promise. Not so. He never made the kind of promises that you think he did. His promises from all the scriptures are contingent upon you doing as he commands. If you do not, you have no promise or gift.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,259
113
<><.🕇.><>

BAPTIST BELIEFS ABOUT SALVATION:
. . . There is no salvation apart from personal faith in Jesus Christ as Lord. Regeneration, or the new birth, is a work of God's grace whereby believers become new creatures in Christ Jesus. It is a change of heart wrought by the Holy Spirit through conviction of sin, to which the sinner responds in repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Repentance and faith are inseparable experiences of grace. . . .

EVANGELICAL FREE CHURCH OF AMERICA BELIEFS ABOUT SALVATION:
That the shed blood of Jesus Christ and His resurrection provide the only ground for justification and salvation for all who believe, and only such as receive Jesus Christ are born of the Holy Spirit, and thus become children of God.

GRACE BRETHREN BELIEFS ABOUT SALVATION:
A complete and eternal salvation by God's grace alone, received as the gift of God through personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished work.

COMMUNITY CHURCHES BELIEFS ABOUT SALVATION:
We believe salvation is the gift of God’s grace given to all whom God has elected to salvation. It includes all that God does in saving the elect from the penalty, power, and presence of sin and in restoring them to a right relationship with God. As such, it is solely the work of God from initiation to completion. It cannot be gained by good works, but is a free gift for all who put their trust in Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross.

BIBLE CHURCHES BELIEFS ABOUT SALVATION:
Man is sinful and separated from God, and a reunion, called salvation, is possible only by faith in Jesus Christ, apart from works, through the regeneration of the Holy Spirit.

ASSEMBLY OF GOD BELIEFS ABOUT SALVATION:
We believe man's only hope of redemption is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Salvation is received through repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

PENTECOSTAL CHURCH BELIEFS ABOUT SALVATION:
Everyone has sinned and needs salvation. Salvation comes by grace through faith based on the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

WESLEYAN CHURCH BELIEFS ABOUT SALVATION:
We believe that for men and women to appropriate what God’s prevenient grace has made possible, they must voluntarily respond in repentance and faith. The ability comes from God, but the act is the individual’s.
. . .
We believe that when one repents of personal sin and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, that at the same moment that person is justified, regenerated, adopted into the family of God, and assured of personal salvation through the witness of the Holy Spirit.

We believe that justification is the judicial act of God whereby a person is accounted righteous, granted full pardon of all sin, delivered from guilt, completely released from the penalty of sins committed, by the merit of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, by faith alone, not on the basis of works.

MESSIANIC JEWISH CHURCHES BELIEFS ABOUT SALVATION:
Our only hope for redemption (salvation) is through the atonement made by the Messiah (Leviticus 17:11; Isaiah 53; Daniel 9:24-26; I Corinthians 15:22; Hebrews 9:11-14, 28; John 1:12, 3:36), resulting in regeneration by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5), which is the new birth (John 3:3-8). For by grace we are saved through faith, it is a gift of God (Ephesians 2:8-9).


I could go on, and on, but NOTHING SEEMS TO MATCH what you say about SALVATION.
Okay, only one more:


LUTHERAN BRETHREN CHURCH BELIEFS ABOUT SALVATION:
Eternal salvation is available to every living human being on earth
by God’s grace alone
through faith alone

in Christ alone.
This salvation consists of an instantaneous aspect and an ongoing, continual aspect.
  1. Justification is God’s gracious act by which He, for Christ’s sake, instantaneously acquits repentant and believing sinners and credits them with Christ’s righteousness. At that moment, God gives each one who believes a new and godly nature and the Holy Spirit begins the process of sanctification. There is no place for human effort in justification.
Hi VCO, and thank you for this post. The Church my wife and I attend, (I am currently home bound and will return after my recovery), is a non-denominational Church. I have included a partial list of what our Church believes, a "Statement of Faith."

When I read some of the fake gospel messages on this thread, such as benhur's fake gospel, it makes me wounder where on earth did they get their bible training from. Some of benhur's ideas from the bible almost sounds "cultic" and it makes me concerned about younger Christian's who may fall prey to his counterfeit gospel.

God bless you all in the name of Jesus Christ

Wayside Chapel
community Church

Statement of Faith
The Church consists of all those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, are redeemed through His blood, and are born again of the Holy Spirit. Christ is the Head of the Body, the Church, which has been commissioned by Him to go into all the world as a witness, preaching the gospel to all nations.

It is the will of God that each believer should be filled with the Holy Spirit and be sanctified wholly, being separated from sin and the world and fully dedicated to the will of God, thereby receiving power for holy living and effective service. This is both a crisis and a progressive experience wrought in the life of the believer subsequent to conversion. 1 Thessalonians 5:23, Acts 1:8, Romans 6:1-1

Salvation has been provided through Jesus Christ for all men, and those who repent and believe in Him are born again of the Holy Spirit, receive the gift of eternal life, and become the children of God. Titus 3:4-7

The Holy Spirit is a divine person, sent to dwell, guide, teach, empower the believer, and convince the world of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment. John 14:15-18, John 16:13, Acts 1:9, John 16:7-11

There shall be a bodily resurrection of the just and of the unjust; for the former, a resurrection unto life; for the latter, a resurrection unto judgment. 1 Corinthians 15:20-23, John 5:28-2911. The second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ is imminent and will be personal, visible, and premillennial. This is the believer’s blessed hope and is a vital truth which is an incentive to holy living and faithful service. Hebrews 10:37, Luke 21:27, Titus 2:11-14
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,259
113
Remember what Decon says, ES is the doctrine of probably only about 10% of the churches. OSAS is probably the doctrine of another 20%, and the other 30% mix grace and faith and works, and the other 40% are all over the place.
Thank you for this post, I have already talk to decon about this subject. You are a lier and a deceiver. You twist and distort God's holy word to your own destruction. I have not seen one ounce of humility in you and only your prideful display of your wonderful works, you have gone the way of Cain and the Pharisees. You are your own savior and redeemer, no room for Jesus Christ.

Go tell your twisted and deceitful lies some where far away.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,259
113
Remember what Decon says, ES is the doctrine of probably only about 10% of the churches. OSAS is probably the doctrine of another 20%, and the other 30% mix grace and faith and works, and the other 40% are all over the place.
benhur you have not received one "Like Sticker" for 140 pages why is this true? do you think maybe people on this thread are wise to your lies. Not one "Like Sticker", for 140 pages, very revealing.

You are going the "wrong way"
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
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Hi NoName, benhur is a deceiver and cannot interpret scripture properly, he reads the bible like it is a novel, and tells you what he thinks the bible say's.

As in Matthew6:14,15 Jesus is exaggerating his statements using hyperbole. The same as Jesus' talk on adultry, "if your eye offends you pluck it out." He doesn't want people to pluck out their eye, it is hyperbole, an exaggeration to get His point across.

Will God forgive "all" of our sins, yes of course He will, Jesus was using hyperbole, a well known form of communication.

benher does not understand proper interpretation of scripture and he will lead many down a dark path, a pity.
His misunderstanding of what the scriptures say is terribly disturbing and that is why he is obsessed with the false gospel of works and loosing your salvation.
If I am a deceiver, then the bible is a deceiving book.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,259
113
If I am a deceiver, then the bible is a deceiving book.
You twist and distort the Holy Book, that is a deceiver and pure arrogance to boot. You have gone the way of Cain, go save yourself with your wonderful works.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,787
3,721
113
There is an assumption on your part that all you have to do is believe and you will have everlatsing life. That assumption is faulty.

Jesus did say if you believe on me you shall have everlasting life. But he has also said many other things about what is necessary to be saved. So if you put the many scriptures together, it goes like this.

If you believe me, you will do as I have commanded you, and you will have eternal life.
If you believe me, and you do not do as I have commanded, you will not have eternal life.

That is the result of all the scriptures that have to do with being saved. Ignore any of those scriptures and you have a faulty theology.
Well your assumptions are wrong.

Get to know a person first before you make assumptions like you have above.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
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His false view makes Christ into a liar.....I WILL NEVER leave your OR FORSAKE YOU <--IF he did then he would be a liar....and we ALL know Christ KEEPS his WORD
Think about it. I never leave you or forsake you even if you spit on me and deny the HS. I force you to have eternal life.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
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To whomever may be of concern:

According to this forum not one person has given benhur a "like sticker" for the past 140 pages - not a single person on this thread has approved of anything benhur has said about the bible. Pretty amazing since you esteem yourself so very high.

According to this Christian forum 100% of Christians disagree with you and your dreadful fake gospel.

I would have made my search longer but it would have been a big waste of time and effort.

John3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that "whoever believes in Him" shall not perish but have eternal life."

Simple Gospel, True Gospel
All that my dreadful fake gospel says is that you have good works as your friend. If that is so dreadful, I feel sorry for you.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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You twist and distort the Holy Book, that is a deceiver and pure arrogance to boot. You have gone the way of Cain, go save yourself with your wonderful works.
Tell me one scripture I have used to distort the bible?
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
Tell me one scripture I have used to distort the bible?

soooo soooo soooo many times have you distorted whats being said in scripture to mean something other than what it actually means to push your head canon which gives glory to the works of men and attempts to deny Jesus His earned glory


Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

(using birth as an earthly example to help the lost Nicodemus who believed in works and didnt understand spiritual things to explain something spiritual to him)

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

(again Nicodemus is unable to understand this spiritual lesson even with an earthly example of birth so he uses his earthly reasoning to question Jesus about being born of flesh two times)

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

(still speaking of brith and trying to relate the two.... born of water = anatomical fluid =born of flesh and born of the Spirit = when God makes His children new)

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

(again further explaining the two births.... flesh = natural birth Spirit = born of God)


7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again......



it's not born again again

born, born of a cerimony being dipped in water, born of spirit


it's born < natural birth > again < born of God



heres one example of truth you reject as some weak attempt to keep your false gospel alive in your head
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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benhur you have not received one "Like Sticker" for 140 pages why is this true? do you think maybe people on this thread are wise to your lies. Not one "Like Sticker", for 140 pages, very revealing.

You are going the "wrong way"
I am going the wrong way according to you and about 4 other people on this forum, which makes up about .000000000000000000001 of the Christian community. That is not scary to me, especially since you are willing to call me Cain because I like to do good works out of love for Jesus. Wow, what a devil incarnate.