Not By Works

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dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,087
14,711
113
God bless you sis

lol

i was a sinless perfectionist


i could name some banned members you probably remember who would rep me and id PM from time to time
HAHAHAH YEP.........and how many engagements did we have.....and the truth...You were OPEN to learning and instruction and willing to admit at some point you were wrong....You humbled yourself and GOD opened your eyes and lifted you up out of your error....
 
Nov 12, 2015
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3 Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek. 4 This matter arose because some false believers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. 5 We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
HAHAHAH YEP.........and how many engagements did we have.....and the truth...You were OPEN to learning and instruction and willing to admit at some point you were wrong....You humbled yourself and GOD opened your eyes and lifted you up out of your error....

man...ive looked at some of them old posts more than once

im grateful He showed me the truth

but before i would claim i was wrong

i accepted that.... i COULD be wrong

that wouldnt have happened without God using brothers and sisters to help me see that

i had read the bible more than once and was still studying

i prayed
i could say all the right words if someone asked me what the gospel was

and i think God sent me here to have me place all this supposed wisdom i had back at His feet

He showed me the good news

I already knew the law

then He gave me assurance

but what i was begging for every night i went to sleep and every time i picked up the bible.... and all day at work... was truth

i was willing to keep my sinless perfection doctrine... i still felt i was correct and id find proof for this that would finally settle any doubts i held

but i was praying for Him to let me see what He wanted me to see


boom
many rough months later enduring through that seeking Him honestly without adding what i WANTED the truth to be

He blesses me with the truth
a whole new set of eyes

and joy
peace
assurance

the whole time giving me bumps of encouragement and showing me my errors
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
816
113
man...ive looked at some of them old posts more than once

im grateful He showed me the truth

but before i would claim i was wrong

i accepted that.... i COULD be wrong

that wouldnt have happened without God using brothers and sisters to help me see that

i had read the bible more than once and was still studying

i prayed
i could say all the right words if someone asked me what the gospel was

and i think God sent me here to have me place all this supposed wisdom i had back at His feet

He showed me the good news

I already knew the law

then He gave me assurance

but what i was begging for every night i went to sleep and every time i picked up the bible.... and all day at work... was truth

i was willing to keep my sinless perfection doctrine... i still felt i was correct and id find proof for this that would finally settle any doubts i held

but i was praying for Him to let me see what He wanted me to see


boom
many rough months later enduring through that seeking Him honestly without adding what i WANTED the truth to be

He blesses me with the truth
a whole new set of eyes

and joy
peace
assurance

the whole time giving me bumps of encouragement and showing me my errors
One man was given his sight but it was not real clear. He stayed with Jesus while the others ran off. Then Jesus gave him clearer sight.

Jesus didn't need two tries to get it right. The story is for you. :)
 
Oct 31, 2015
1,806
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Better yet explain how Jesus fails when the following is true...

He gives faith as a GIFT and deals it out to all men in measure
HE BEGINS the work of FAITH
He FINISHES the work of FAITH
HE COMPLETES the work of FAITH

SO.....IF one can LOSE faith and by default LOSE salvation then the following MUST BE TRUE

JESUS takes his gift of faith BACK
The WORK OF FAITH JESUS began fails
JESUS does not FINISH the work of faith he began
JESUS does not complete the work of faith HE STARTED

THE end result....JESUS is an inept liar that cannot finish what he started and keep his word.....

THIS is exactly what ALL say when they say ONE can LOSE salvation by LOSING faith.....

MY BIBLE states the following...

IF we BELIEVE NOT (AFTER BELIEF and WRITTEN UNTO THE SAVED) HE abides FAITHFUL because HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF.

What do the following words mean

SAVED to the UTTERMOST?
NEVER LEAVE thee OR FORSAKE THEE?
For the GIFTS and the calling of God are IRREVOCABLE. <--salvation is a gift
Are you saying those who believe for a while, then fall away, and no longer believe, are still saved?


Jesus explained the condition for being saved in the previous verse; Believe


  • lest they should believe and be saved.


12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


These in the next group did in fact believe, according to Jesus.


  • who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.


These folks believed are were saved... for a while.


If there is more to being saved, than to believe, then please share what that is, with the scriptures to validate your claim.




JPT
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
53
48
Numbers 18:19-24 Whatever is set aside from the holy offerings the Israelites present to the Lord I give to you and your sons and daughters as your regular share. IT IS AN COVENANT of salt before the Lord for both you and your offspring.” The Lord said to Aaron, “You will have no inheritance in their land, nor will you have any share among them; I am your share and your inheritance among the Israelites. “I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the Tent of Meeting. From now on the Israelites must not go near the Tent of Meeting, or they will bear the consequences of their sin and will die. It is the Levites who are to do the work at the Tent of Meeting and bear the responsibility for offenses against it. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. They will receive no inheritance among the Israelites. Instead, I give to the Levites as their inheritance the tithes that the Israelites present as an offering
who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance?


Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
53
48
Numbers 18:19-24 Whatever is set aside from the holy offerings the Israelites present to the Lord I give to you and your sons and daughters as your regular share. IT IS AN COVENANT of salt before the Lord for both you and your offspring.” The Lord said to Aaron, “You will have no inheritance in their land, nor will you have any share among them; I am your share and your inheritance among the Israelites. “I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the Tent of Meeting. From now on the Israelites must not go near the Tent of Meeting, or they will bear the consequences of their sin and will die. It is the Levites who are to do the work at the Tent of Meeting and bear the responsibility for offenses against it. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. They will receive no inheritance among the Israelites. Instead, I give to the Levites as their inheritance the tithes that the Israelites present as an offering to the Lord. That is why I said concerning them: ‘They will have no inheritance among the Israelites.’”

ALMOST ALL IF NOT ALL OF THE PROTESTANTS AND OTHER CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS AROUND THE WORLD ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO TEACH OSAS AND THAT FAITH ALONE SAVES VOID OF ANY SORT OF WORKS, COLLECT AND TEACH THEIR MEMBERS TO GIVE TITHES ALTHOUGH IT IS CLEAR FROM THE VERSES ABOVE THE TRUTH ABOUT IT.

IF THE ISRAELITES WHO WERE GIVEN AN EVERLASTING COVENANT WILL REPENT AND BELIEVE IN JESUS, THEY WILL BE JUSTIFIED FOR SURE. WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF THEY BREAK AN EVERLASTING COVENANT WITH GOD? WOULD THEY BE SAVED?
WHAT IF THEY UPHOLD IT, WOULD YOU CALL THEM WORKERS FOR SALVATION AND ALIENATED FROM JESUS?

ARE GENTILE CHRISTIANS REQUIRED TO GIVE TITHES OTHERWISE BE ROBBING GOD ACCDG TO THEIR PASTORS WHO TEACHES THEM THAT IT IS BY FAITH ALONE VOID OF ANY RIGHTEOUS WORKS THAT A MAN SHALL BE SAVED?

ACCORDING TO "OSASERS" AND "ALONERS", SALVATION IS THROUGH FAITH ALONE VOID OF ANY SORT OF RIGHTEOUS WORKS.

THEY CONDEMN AND INSULT THOSE BELIEVERS WHO PROMOTE OBEDIENCE TO GOD'S WORDS AND COMMANDS YET CLEARLY TOLERATE EVERY VIOLAftTION OF GOD'S COMMANDS FOR THE BENEFIT OF PERSONAL GAINS..

Luke 12:15 Then he said to them, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.”

1 Timothy 6:3-10 Love of Money If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

1 Timothy 6:3-10,17-19 Love of Money If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.


Romans 2:1-4 God’s Righteous Judgment You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance?

Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
Are you saying those who believe for a while, then fall away, and no longer believe, are still saved?

he never once implied that
i never once implied that
dan never once implied that
ed never once implied that

and all of us have explained to you previously when you came to this ridiculous conclusion that we never even suggested anything like that

but i can see you dont care what we implied

given you have already been corrected regarding this topic now so many times

it is obvious where your intentions are


i dont think running from biblical truth while trying to create silly debates against your own your strawmen arguments is a good look for you JPT.... or anyone else who uses these shady tactics to push their man-man religion


maybe its all you know...
but God can show you a new way





men/women deserve hell
because they (we) have sinned

if you even sin once
you deserve hell (or the lake of fire)

because God is just
and He set just and perfect laws in place

so a perfect God will not let unjustice go unpunished

He is not like a man where is anger is fuled by pride and grudges
it is a righteous anger meant to bring justice where there is none

God is not only just and perfect though

He is loving (more so than any man/woman)
and forgiving (more so than any man/woman)
and shows mercy (more so than any man/woman)

He manifested Himself here in the flesh to provide a path to salvation

Jesus Christ
the only begotten son of God

the Word

God in the flesh

is our savior

He fulfilled all righteousness
so that whosoever believes in Him can be saved

and adopted as sons and daughters

we who are adopted by Him recieve not only eternal life

but a new heart
and a quickened spirit
and become filled with the Holy spirit

once we are His
we are sealed
and imputed with His perfect righteousness

but when this happens it isnt some silly thing

it is a transformation
we become new creatures


and we cannot turn from the truth

because we are His He now chastens us when we choose to be a useless member of the body to correct us
and
our spirit cries to us He is our Father

we had a heart that desired worldly things and now we have a heart that desires His will in our life


the new heart He provides
the quickened spirit
and the chastening

the blessings
and the encouragement

the trials


these things all work together for good to those who are His

He does not fail His children

and the children are not able to save themself

we are kept by His power
unto salvation through Him


the work He does in us does not make pretenders JP

it makes genuine belivers grow


your false doctrine not only ignore His promises which would imply He is a liar

your false doctrine also places salvation on mans shoulders


your false doctrine says God will not only lose some of His through going against His word

but His power is too weak to keep them either way
 
Oct 31, 2015
1,806
473
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and all of us have explained to you previously when you came to this ridiculous conclusion that we never even suggested anything like that

Ok so you agree that those who believe for a while are saved for a while.

Great. For a minute there, I thought you were promoting the false doctrine of OSAS.



JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
1,806
473
83
he never once implied that
i never once implied that
dan never once implied that
ed never once implied that

and all of us have explained to you previously when you came to this ridiculous conclusion that we never even suggested anything like that

but i can see you dont care what we implied

given you have already been corrected regarding this topic now so many times

it is obvious where your intentions are


i dont think running from biblical truth while trying to create silly debates against your own your strawmen arguments is a good look for you JPT.... or anyone else who uses these shady tactics to push their man-man religion


maybe its all you know...
but God can show you a new way





men/women deserve hell
because they (we) have sinned

if you even sin once
you deserve hell (or the lake of fire)

because God is just
and He set just and perfect laws in place

so a perfect God will not let unjustice go unpunished

He is not like a man where is anger is fuled by pride and grudges
it is a righteous anger meant to bring justice where there is none

God is not only just and perfect though

He is loving (more so than any man/woman)
and forgiving (more so than any man/woman)
and shows mercy (more so than any man/woman)

He manifested Himself here in the flesh to provide a path to salvation

Jesus Christ
the only begotten son of God

the Word

God in the flesh

is our savior

He fulfilled all righteousness
so that whosoever believes in Him can be saved

and adopted as sons and daughters

we who are adopted by Him recieve not only eternal life

but a new heart
and a quickened spirit
and become filled with the Holy spirit

once we are His
we are sealed
and imputed with His perfect righteousness

but when this happens it isnt some silly thing

it is a transformation
we become new creatures


and we cannot turn from the truth

because we are His He now chastens us when we choose to be a useless member of the body to correct us
and
our spirit cries to us He is our Father

we had a heart that desired worldly things and now we have a heart that desires His will in our life


the new heart He provides
the quickened spirit
and the chastening

the blessings
and the encouragement

the trials


these things all work together for good to those who are His

He does not fail His children

and the children are not able to save themself

we are kept by His power
unto salvation through Him


the work He does in us does not make pretenders JP

it makes genuine belivers grow


your false doctrine not only ignore His promises which would imply He is a liar

your false doctrine also places salvation on mans shoulders


your false doctrine says God will not only lose some of His through going against His word

but His power is too weak to keep them either way

Those who are born again through faith in Christ Jesus must obey Him as Lord.


3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:3-4


People who claim to have eternal life, “know Him”, but don’t obey Him, are liars, and the truth is not in them.




JPT
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
Those who are born again through faith in Christ Jesus must obey Him as Lord.


3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:3-4


People who claim to have eternal life, “know Him”, but don’t obey Him, are liars, and the truth is not in them.




JPT
your goal is to pervert the gospel in a way that ignores the promises of God to His children

but you have never once provided a verse that backs up your head canon
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
437
255
43
It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

You only have half of the equation though my brother in the Lord...we will all be judged by our works apart from grace. Works of righteousness and holiness prove the authenticity of faith over just some human belief that has no power. The angels won't submit to just anyone with a claim to authenticity and to authority in Christ. It has to be according to reality and power. So you will have to dig deeper into the process of salvation to get the whole picture. :) Are you willing to do that? ;)

Everything in the bible must be balanced with what seems to be contradictions....and it is only as these seeming contradictions are held together that we may glimpse the divine equation that adds up to the truth.

peace