Not By Works

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NoNameMcgee

Guest
You did say that I do not know how to divide. How do you divide the word then between the law and grace?

Jesus is much more into good works, in fact he never uses the word 'grace' in the NT. So do you divide Jesus's words between the law and grace?

i can only tell you the truth

that doesnt mean you will hear it ben

if you wish to learn how to understand the bible

youre going to need the Holy spirit to guide your studies


not lean on your own understanding



you can claim Jesus is "into" whatever you want


it doesnt change the truth
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
Blot out of the book of life is to be removed.


Very clear.


He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. Revelation 3:5


7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Revelation 21:7-8



JPT

having fun fighting against your own strawmen?


who ever implied blot out means anything other than "remove":rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
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are you now going to pretend you werent trying to imply the only names in the book of life before they are blotted out are born again believers when you bolded blot out?:ROFL:


goodness J

youre really stretching and grasping at straws

I'm stating that to be in the book of Life means eternal life.

To not be in the book of Life means no eternal life.



JPT
 
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having fun fighting against your own strawmen?


who ever implied blot out means anything other than "remove":rolleyes::rolleyes:

I'm having fun exposing you for what what you are.


12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


Those who believe are saved.

Those who believe for a while then reject Jesus Christ to save their own life will lose their eternal life.







JPT
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
I'm having fun exposing you for what what you are.


12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


Those who believe are saved.

Those who believe for a while then reject Jesus Christ to save their own life will lose their eternal life.







JPT
all youre exposing is your own lack of wisdom
"no root":eek:
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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Are you saying those who believe for a while, then fall away, and no longer believe, are still saved?


Jesus explained the condition for being saved in the previous verse; Believe


  • lest they should believe and be saved.


12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


These in the next group did in fact believe, according to Jesus.


  • who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.


These folks believed are were saved... for a while.


If there is more to being saved, than to believe, then please share what that is, with the scriptures to validate your claim.




JPT
I am not saying that AT ALL......I believe 3 of the 4 were saved and remained saved......

a. One had no root and was easily offended and in immaturity and offence fell away yet remained saved
b. One was saved but allowed the riches of the world to choke out the fruit yet remained saved
c. one was saved, faithful, matured and bore fruit

The bible supports all three views above concerning the saved.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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You only have half of the equation though my brother in the Lord...we will all be judged by our works apart from grace. Works of righteousness and holiness prove the authenticity of faith over just some human belief that has no power. The angels won't submit to just anyone with a claim to authenticity and to authority in Christ. It has to be according to reality and power. So you will have to dig deeper into the process of salvation to get the whole picture. :) Are you willing to do that? ;)

Everything in the bible must be balanced with what seems to be contradictions....and it is only as these seeming contradictions are held together that we may glimpse the divine equation that adds up to the truth.

peace
Not hardly........read the thread....works do not save, keep saved, top off salvation or even prove salvation....false religions will do many wonderful works in the name of Jesus only to be cast into hell because they believed a false gospel of faith/works for salvation.....
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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Many scriptures seem to have us believe in ES. But too many scriptures that obliterate ES. I have decided to believe in Christ and do what he says. Hope that is not an evil approach to salvation.
Wrong again....there are no verses in context that stand against eternal security and the very statement you made proves your in error...the word does not contradict itself and if MANY scriptures point to Eternal SECURITY there will be NONE that oppose it...wow...you would have God be the author of confusion.....
 
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I am not saying that AT ALL......I believe 3 of the 4 were saved and remained saved......

a. One had no root and was easily offended and in immaturity and offence fell away yet remained saved
b. One was saved but allowed the riches of the world to choke out the fruit yet remained saved
c. one was saved, faithful, matured and bore fruit

The bible supports all three views above concerning the saved.

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


Believe is the requirement to be saved.

  • lest they should believe and be saved.


In the next group these did in fact believe, but only for a while.


So if we are saved the moment we believe, then the person who believed for a while, was indeed saved, but then later he no longer believed.


  • Is someone who no longer believes, still somehow a believer?



Matthew uses the word endure.


20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:20-21


Jesus says those who endure [believe] to the end will be saved.

  • But he who endures to the end shall be saved.


9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Matthew 24:9-14




The context of course in all three scriptures is continuing to believe while being persecuted and even killed for your faith in Christ.




JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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all youre exposing is your own lack of wisdom
"no root":eek:

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


Believe is the requirement to be saved.

  • lest they should believe and be saved.


In the next group these did in fact believe, but only for a while.


So if we are saved the moment we believe, then the person who believed for a while, was indeed saved for a while.




JPT
 
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Wrong again....there are no verses in context that stand against eternal security and the very statement you made proves your in error...the word does not contradict itself and if MANY scriptures point to Eternal SECURITY there will be NONE that oppose it...wow...you would have God be the author of confusion.....


So you believe it's impossible for one of His sheep to become lost?



4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine[b]just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7


  • ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’




Do you understand what lost means?




JPT
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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We have all read this many times. It boils down to Jesus speaking to believers and he sees their good works, and he sees that they have also left their first love, which is him and the gospel. So unless they repent, these believers will be removed.

Looks like they did not repent because that church is gone. Perfect example of believers that lost their salvation.

I know you can comment with different words to meet your agenda, but this is a perfect example of believers losing their salvation.
FALSE again...man the best thing you could do is quit talking...actually study the bible for about 10 years and then open your mouth...NO where does JESUS threaten their salvation, but rather their authority as a true New Testament Church....wow man.....you are missing the mark by a mile
There is not one soul on this site or in any church/denomination who can possibly keep all commandments, the Law, to ensure their eternal salvation. No not one.
Oh there are a few delusional ones that believe in their mind that they do.......especially the Lawyers, Pharisees and sinless perfectionists.....
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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So you believe it's impossible for one of His sheep to become lost?



4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine[b]just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7


  • ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’




Do you understand what lost means? <-----THIS does not mean LOSS of salvation




JPT
You must be dense.....

A. It was STILL a SHEEP (not a goat)
b. Do you seriously believe the word LOST in this context means the loss of salvation

WOW....have some cake
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
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Not hardly........read the thread....works do not save, keep saved, top off salvation or even prove salvation....false religions will do many wonderful works in the name of Jesus only to be cast into hell because they believed a false gospel of faith/works for salvation.....
There is a book in the bible called James.

In that book there is this verse...

James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

So you have been improperly instructed or you have not read enough to make a proper assessment of what the bible says.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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There is a book in the bible called James.

In that book there is this verse...

James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

So you have been improperly instructed or you have not read enough to make a proper assessment of what the bible says.
YEAH.....and there is also a word that the workers for fail to acknowledge when they peddle a works based false non saving dogma that leads to hell....

It is called CONTEXT.....look it up and then compare JAMES to Romans.....
 
Oct 31, 2015
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You must be dense.....

A. It was STILL a SHEEP (not a goat)
b. Do you seriously believe the word LOST in this context means the loss of salvation

WOW....have some cake

I see so lost. really doesn't mean lost, and found really doesn't mean found.


Unfortunately for you and your "redefinition" of biblical words, Lost means a sinner in need of repentance, spiritually dead to God.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7


  • ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’


likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.



again



It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ”
Luke 15:32


  • for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ”


Lost = Sinner in need of repentance or be lost for eternity in the fires of hell.


Found = Reconciled to God




James says it this way -


19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


  • let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death





JPT
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
41,612
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I see so lost. really doesn't mean lost, and found really doesn't mean found.


Unfortunately for you and your "redefinition" of biblical words, Lost means a sinner in need of repentance, spiritually dead to God.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7


  • ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’


likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.



again



It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ”
Luke 15:32


  • for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ”


Lost = Sinner in need of repentance or be lost for eternity in the fires of hell.


Found = Reconciled to God




James says it this way -


19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


  • let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death





JPT
Keep thinking that.....your conflating two words in pure ignorance....was it still a SHEEP or did it turn into a GOAT.....yeah we know you cannot answer truthfully....as dense as lead pal!
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
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YEAH.....and there is also a word that the workers for fail to acknowledge when they peddle a works based false non saving dogma that leads to hell....

It is called CONTEXT.....look it up and then compare JAMES to Romans.....

You are missing the context of biblical truth. Rather than rant... read and learn from the word. There may yet be hope for you. Learn to be humble learn about love...which is the bond of perfection. :)

Peace
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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You are missing the context of biblical truth. Rather than rant... read and learn from the word. There may yet be hope for you. Learn to be humble learn about love...which is the bond of perfection. :)

Peace
DUDE....James does not teach a works based salvation....it is about the mere assent to belief and NOT about saving faith...and I am missing nothing pal....the bible is clear and does not contradict itself....

NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE, but according to his mercy has HE SAVED US (PAST TENSE)

IT pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE (NO WORKS)

IN the grace we are having been saved (past tense) out of FAITH and that NOT of yourselves, it is the GIFT (FREE) of GOD and NPT of WORKS lest any man should boast.

Let me tell you and ALL who peddle a false works based dogma which has no power to save, keep saved, embellish salvation, top off salvation.....YOU can forget it....NO WHERE does the bible teach a works based salvation and you are wasting your time if you think for one micro second that you or those other false teachers will ever change my mind.....

Take your own bolded advise above....before you find yourself in the "plenteous in number" grouping that believes your right to enter is based upon the many wonderful works you have done in the name of JESUS....