Not By Works

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Oct 31, 2015
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and were did I say that a person can be saved and not obey??

what I said was that obedience is a RESULT , not a cause .

you say that obedience that causes salvation. 100% wrong. saved by grace, not by works, so that no man can boast


please show me where I said that one can be saved and not obey.

what I said was we are saved by grace through faith for good works.. so that no man can boast.

if you say that you are saved by obeying , that is boasting, is it not??

Here is your quote -


what you just said here is salvation is based on obedience. that is 100% false.

Again salvation starts when we obey the Gospel, that is how we are saved; born again - regenerated.


22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23



If a person hears the Gospel and does not obey it, how can they be saved?


  • with the mouth confession is made unto salvation



10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10




JPT
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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Me too BillG, what is benhur agreeing with I do not know. Sometimes I believe benhur is "comparing" himself with other believers to make sure he believes as we do. But the bible says we should not compare our self to others.

benhurs theology is sometimes off the rails. Like using God-whispers, instead of God breathed. The bible never uses God-whispers about anything or any where in the bible at all.

And he still will not tell of his Church Denomination for some reason.

2Corinthians10:12
We do not dare to classify or compare ourselves with some who commend themselves. When they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are not wise.
Wow, geesh, wow, how far off the rails have I gone to make a statement that God whispers instead of God breaths. Wow, geesh, wow.

If you cannot get over this little thing, I'm not sure how you operate day to day without getting all tied up in knots.

I was answering VCO that you are saved when the Holy Spirit enters your heart.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
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There are no experts on here who can make me feel bad nor angry except whenever I am accused of something I haven't done. There is a cool song called "before you accuse me, take a look at yourself" which I like.
Good, I am glad you don't feel bad.
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
418
83
Out of respect for GOD, I will never use that acronym.

KOG = games for PCs made in Korea.

KOG = an American Computer Gaming Company

KOG = Kodiac Oil & Gas Co.

KOG = KOG'MAW is a British Computer Gaming Company.

KOG = Kokomo Opalescent Glass Co.

KOG = K.O.G. Gamers for XBOX

KOG = KOG International, Inc. - Security Bond Brokers

KOG = KOG is a pioneering consultancy and creative agency dedicated to LGBTQ+ travel.

KOG = EuKaryotic Orthologous Groups (KOG) - database using euKaryotic Orthologous Groups from NCBI,

KOG =
(King Of Games) is a brand in Splatoon, along with a line of Nintendo-related products

KOG = K.O.G. & the Zongo Brigade - The 9-piece deliver infectious West African vibes from Ghana

KOG = King KOG - full service bicycle repair

KOG = Stock Quotes - Kongsberg Gruppen AS (KOG)

KOG = A Volleyball League

KOG = IGLTA - Gay and Lesbian Travel Agency

ETC.


SEEMS VERY DISRESPECTFUL TO GOD, TO SHORTEN THE KINGDOM OF GOD, to the Acronym you suggested.
I didn't suggest the acronym. I simply explained the possible meaning of KOG in the context of this forum's focus.
It really boils down to what such an acronym means to the person who uses it. Others are able to read their own ideas into it but when that isn't the writers intent those others are just opining.
I'm moving on now. This isn't that deeply personal to me.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
9,108
4,840
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Here is your quote -





Again salvation starts when we obey the Gospel, that is how we are saved; born again - regenerated.


22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23



If a person hears the Gospel and does not obey it, how can they be saved?


  • with the mouth confession is made unto salvation



10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10




JPT
Here is your quote -





Again salvation starts when we obey the Gospel, that is how we are saved; born again - regenerated.


22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23



If a person hears the Gospel and does not obey it, how can they be saved?


  • with the mouth confession is made unto salvation



10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10




JPT
what is the Gospel?

believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

you are saved the moment you believe. as long as you believe.

the formula that the Bible teaches is grace-faith -works.

you are saying that obeying produces salvation. wrong. dead wrong.

we are saved BY grace. God saves us. we do not save us.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,260
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and were did I say that a person can be saved and not obey??

what I said was that obedience is a RESULT , not a cause .

you say that obedience that causes salvation. 100% wrong. saved by grace, not by works, so that no man can boast


please show me where I said that one can be saved and not obey.

what I said was we are saved by grace through faith for good works.. so that no man can boast.

if you say that you are saved by obeying , that is boasting, is it not??
Amen gb9, The selfrighteous, "save yourself bunch", will also tell you that you can lose your "eternal salvation." How can you "obey" the gospel unless you are first "saved", you cannot. And how can you "obey" when we were "Dead in our transgressions and sin's."

Poster passingthrough has "selfrighteous" myopic view of the bible, he needs to turn his telescope around and he will see clearly the true gospel.

Ephesians2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Ephesians2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Titus3:5
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

1Corinthians1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,161
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Do you disagree, that we are to obey the Gospel, in order to be saved?


in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 1:8


  • on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ


and again


22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23


again


14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”
Romans 10:14-16



Please explain how a person who does not obey the Gospel is saved?




JPT
Romans 10:14-16

Israel Rejects the Gospel
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

Is this not about Israel rejecting the gospel, rejecting Jesus?

If so how can they obey something they reject or do but believe in.?

Is the verse quoted from Isaiah talking about Israel and their refusal to believe?

Romans 10:3-4
3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

So I cannot see the verses you posted from Romans are relevant to your point of obedience to the gospel in order to be saved by being obedient.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,260
113
Wow, geesh, wow, how far off the rails have I gone to make a statement that God whispers instead of God breaths. Wow, geesh, wow.

If you cannot get over this little thing, I'm not sure how you operate day to day without getting all tied up in knots.

I was answering VCO that you are saved when the Holy Spirit enters your heart.
Frankly I cannot believe anything you say until you reveal your "Church Denomination", your silence about your Church affiliation tells everyone a lot about who you are. The reason a local Church body has a "Statement of Faith" is so that people who maybe interested can discern whether your theology is biblical or it is not biblical.
 
Oct 31, 2015
1,990
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Romans 10:14-16

Israel Rejects the Gospel
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

Is this not about Israel rejecting the gospel, rejecting Jesus?

If so how can they obey something they reject or do but believe in.?

Is the verse quoted from Isaiah talking about Israel and their refusal to believe?

Romans 10:3-4
3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

So I cannot see the verses you posted from Romans are relevant to your point of obedience to the gospel in order to be saved by being obedient.
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” Romans 10:16


We are saved by obeying the Gospel.

Those who do not obey the Gospel will suffer the vengeance of God’s wrath.

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:8



JPT
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,235
4,183
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Do you disagree, that we are to obey the Gospel, in order to be saved?


in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 1:8


  • on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ


and again


22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23


again


14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”
Romans 10:14-16



Please explain how a person who does not obey the Gospel is saved?




JPT
YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE your emphases is ON THE WRONG ADVERB.

It is NOT Obey to be SAVED.

IT IS SALVATION produces a change in the HEART (Born Again Human Spirit), who WILL WILLINGLY WANT TO OBEY.

IT IS NOT SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO DO TO BE SAVED.

IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THOSE HE SAVED, THE PROOF IS IN THE CHANGE OF THEIR BORN AGAIN HUMAN SPIRIT, THAT LOVES TO DO WHAT PLEASES OUR LORD.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,235
4,183
113
If you think it an insult, then do not use it. Since I do not think it an insult, I use it.

I does not surprise me that you do not find it is an insult to GOD. I do not see the same Reverence and Love for GOD in your theology, that I have for HIM. Too much "ME, MYSELF, MUST KEEP, I'VE EARNED IT"; whereas, for me, it is "I do not deserve it, AWE THAT HE LOVES EVEN ME, HE PAID IT ALL, ALL THE GLORY BELONG'S TO CHRIST".


 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,260
113
I does not surprise me that you do not find it is an insult to GOD. I do not see the same Reverence and Love for GOD in your theology, that I have for HIM. Too much "ME, MYSELF, MUST KEEP, I'VE EARNED IT"; whereas, for me, it is "I do not deserve it, AWE THAT HE LOVES EVEN ME, HE PAID IT ALL, ALL THE GLORY BELONG'S TO CHRIST".


Hi VCO, the self-righteous, "I can save myself group", who also have no "eternal security", (no wonder yes), are always putting there "wonderful works" out in front of what Jesus Christ has already done for us. They are so puffed up its a wonder how they make it through their front door when they get home.

"Salvation is of the Lord", Jonah's Prayer after God saves him.; Jonah2:9
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
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Out of respect for GOD, I will never use that acronym.

KOG = games for PCs made in Korea.

KOG = an American Computer Gaming Company

KOG = Kodiac Oil & Gas Co.

KOG = KOG'MAW is a British Computer Gaming Company.

KOG = Kokomo Opalescent Glass Co.

KOG = K.O.G. Gamers for XBOX

KOG = KOG International, Inc. - Security Bond Brokers

KOG = KOG is a pioneering consultancy and creative agency dedicated to LGBTQ+ travel.

KOG = EuKaryotic Orthologous Groups (KOG) - database using euKaryotic Orthologous Groups from NCBI,

KOG =
(King Of Games) is a brand in Splatoon, along with a line of Nintendo-related products

KOG = K.O.G. & the Zongo Brigade - The 9-piece deliver infectious West African vibes from Ghana

KOG = King KOG - full service bicycle repair

KOG = Stock Quotes - Kongsberg Gruppen AS (KOG)

KOG = A Volleyball League

KOG = IGLTA - Gay and Lesbian Travel Agency

ETC.


SEEMS VERY DISRESPECTFUL TO GOD, TO SHORTEN THE KINGDOM OF GOD, to the Acronym you suggested.
You are always talking about context. Well, when I use KOG, put it in context and you will know that I mean Kingdom of God. Hope that is helpful.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,161
3,942
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16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” Romans 10:16


We are saved by obeying the Gospel.

Those who do not obey the Gospel will suffer the vengeance of God’s wrath.

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:8



JPT
One needs to believe to obey.
The remnant of Israel will be saved.
Not by obedience but by faith that leads to obedience.
You have said it is by faith we are saved and not works in the past.
But then you say after that we are saved by obedience.

So in effect you negate the faith void of works that saves us and replace it with works save us. Afterall obedience is works.

I have no issue with obedience, wanting to be like Jesus, doing good works.
Not to be saved but because I love Jesus and people.

You focus on the negative whereas I focus on the positive.
I'm focused on doing good works to and obedience so that people can see Jesus.

Not in order to be saved.
After all Jesus will reject those on judgement day who say "But I did this and did that"

Jesus never knew them.
The Pharisees thought obedience counted but Jesus shot right through that.
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
418
83
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” Romans 10:16


We are saved by obeying the Gospel.

Those who do not obey the Gospel will suffer the vengeance of God’s wrath.

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:8



JPT
True. And the good news is what is often called the golden text that is John 3:16
For God
so loved the world
that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whoever believes in Him
should not perish
but have everlasting life.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
I does not surprise me that you do not find it is an insult to GOD. I do not see the same Reverence and Love for GOD in your theology, that I have for HIM. Too much "ME, MYSELF, MUST KEEP, I'VE EARNED IT"; whereas, for me, it is "I do not deserve it, AWE THAT HE LOVES EVEN ME, HE PAID IT ALL, ALL THE GLORY BELONG'S TO CHRIST".


I do tell people they need to.....
I am not a big preacher about me, and myself
I have never said I've earned it, never, and you know it, so why did you say it.
And I know that you are very proud of your humility.

And what has this insult to me got to do with me using shortening the 'Kingdom of God' by using KOG?
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
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What are some of the faith alone denominations and what are some of the works-salvationist denominations?