Not By Works

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Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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WHO MOCKS GOD?

THOSE WHO SAY THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD IS NOT PART OF SALVATION ARE THE ONES WHO CLEARLY MOCKS GOD.

DO "OSASERS" BELIEVE THAT THOSE WHO SOW TO PLEASE THE SPIRIT WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE.? I DOUBT IT, BECAUSE NO ONE CAN SOW WITHOUT DOING ANYTHING. THEIR BELIEF IS THAT FAITH ALONE SAVES VOID OF WORKS.

CAN FAITH WITHOUT OBEDIENCE TO GOD SAVE THEM?

IS IT NOT DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD IF WE SOW TO PLEASE THE SINFUL NATURE? AND WHAT DO WE REAP FOR BEING DISOBEDIENT, IS IT NOT DESTRUCTION?

DOES OBEDIENCE THEN HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION?

WHY NOT TEACH OBEDIENCE AS WE ARE COMMANDED TO DO (matthew 28:18-20)RATHER THAN SAYING THAT OBEDIENCE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION.

IT IS CLEAR THAT GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.(ephesians 5:6)

Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit
will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

Isaiah 5:20-24 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for THEY HAVE REJECTED THE LAW OF THE LORD ALMIGHTY AND SPURNED THE WORD OF THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL.
 
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theanointedsinner

Guest
God works in mysterious ways, so he can use the idea that "OSAS is true" to draw people toward redemption and obedience.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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1 Corinthians 4 : 6-7
6 Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "DO NOT GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTE." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another
7 For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
Paul, who was and is a saved child of God for eternity had no problem identifying himself as a JEW...and or identifying himself that he was raised in the Jewish law/religion....

I was circumcised when I was eight days old. I am a pure-blooded citizen of Israel and a member of the tribe of Benjamin--a real Hebrew if there ever was one! I was a member of the Pharisees, who demand the strictest obedience to the Jewish law.

"I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city, educated under Gamaliel, strictly according to the law of our fathers, being zealous for God just as you all are today.

Jesus said, "Salvation is of the JEWS" to the woman at the well....

"You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.

And Paul said that in Christ their is neither JEW nor GENTILE

This whole HEBREW CHRISTIAN thing is a farce Bill..........
Don, he has explained this to me Preston is a Christian period. He has Hebrew blood from the tribe of Levi. No matter his doctrine that is just a fact. Like I have the blood of Judah, but not the religion of the Jews. I was raised traditional Christian and later became a called Christian. Call me a Jew if you like, but don't associate me with Judaism (the religion). :cool:
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,959
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God works in mysterious ways, so he can use the idea that "OSAS is true" to draw people toward redemption and obedience.
<><.🖞🕇.><>

Saved ETERNALLY the moment we BELIEVE as a GIFT OF GOD,

Those who are REALLY SAVED, have GOD's LOVE Poured into our HEARTS.

THAT LOVE IN US, gives us the ability to LOVE GOD AND THE BRETHREN Forever,

And when we FAIL due to a momentary sin, THAT IS WHAT 1 John 1:9 is about.


Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.


Romans 5:5-10 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
6 For while we were still helpless, at the appointed moment, Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For rarely will someone die for a just person—though for a good person perhaps someone might even dare to die.
8 But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!
9 Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!


JESUS DID IT ALL! ALL TO HIM I OWE!
Our Obedience is an ACT OF LOVE FOR HIM, and has NOTHING to do with Salvation.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
<><.🖞🕇.><>

Saved ETERNALLY the moment we BELIEVE as a GIFT OF GOD,

Those who are REALLY SAVED, have GOD's LOVE Poured into our HEARTS.

THAT LOVE IN US, gives us the ability to LOVE GOD AND THE BRETHREN Forever,

And when we FAIL due to a momentary sin, THAT IS WHAT 1 John 1:9 is about.


Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.


Romans 5:5-10 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
6 For while we were still helpless, at the appointed moment, Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For rarely will someone die for a just person—though for a good person perhaps someone might even dare to die.
8 But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!
9 Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!


JESUS DID IT ALL! ALL TO HIM I OWE!
Our Obedience is an ACT OF LOVE FOR HIM, and has NOTHING to do with Salvation.
Our Obedience is an ACT OF LOVE FOR HIM, and has NOTHING to do with Salvation. <-- thanks for clarifying this, what you put here is worthy of being a thread-title, I pray that God continue to bless you with the gift of clear explanations
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
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1 John 2:3-6 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. THE MAN WHO SAYS, “I KNOW HIM,” BUT DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS IS A LIAR, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, GOD'S LOVE is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

1 John 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

2 John 1:6-11 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.

1 John 4:16-17 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. GOD IS LOVE. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. In this way, love is made complete among us so that WE WILL HAVE CONFIDENCE ON THE DAY OF JUDGMENT, because in this world we are like him.

WHO SAYS THAT FAITH ALONE SAVES?

THEY REJECT GOD WHO IS "LOVE" , MAKING HIM NOT NECESSARY OR EVEN PART OF SALVATION.

JESUS APPEARED TO DESTROY THE WORK OF THE DEVIL.

DO NOT BE DECEIVED...

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Of course he is saying that and he also believes one can lose salvation by not obeying which seals his fate because NO one KEEPS the LAW and all are lawbreakers......
It truly amazes me to see just how many people confidently (and self righteously) believe they qualify for heaven under those terms. Seems to be a growing epidemic on CC. :(:rolleyes:
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Don, he has explained this to me Preston is a Christian period. He has Hebrew blood from the tribe of Levi. No matter his doctrine that is just a fact. Like I have the blood of Judah, but not the religion of the Jews. I was raised traditional Christian and later became a called Christian. Call me a Jew if you like, but don't associate me with Judaism (the religion). :cool:
In Christ their is neither JEW NOR GENTILE and all who are saved genuinely by faith are a NEW CREATION in Christ Jesus....ALL who blend FAITH with works/law keeping/religious hoop jumping FOR salvation or to KEEP OR MAINTAIN salvation peddle a FALSE GOSPEL WITH NO POWER TO SAVE A FLEA, MUCH LESS A MAN!
It truly amazes me to see just how many people confidently (and self righteously) believe they qualify for heaven under those terms. Seems to be a growing epidemic on CC. :(:rolleyes:
Exactly why I keep swinging the sword.....there are more false gospels than choices on an all you can eat buffet at a Chinese resturant.....!
 
Mar 14, 2011
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God works in mysterious ways, so he can use the idea that "OSAS is true" to draw people toward redemption and obedience.
Yet he can not use the doctrine (OSAS IS NOT TRUE) to draw people to himself. All that would do is it would have draw them to themselves. and how they act and perform, WHich is why NOSAS is so dangerous.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,544
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North Carolina
Then you also got baptized because Jesus communicated His plan of salvation clearly in the word of God that we needed to believe and be baptized in order to be saved. Mark 16:16. I suppose you were baptized? If so, you followed the right path.
Baptism did not save me. It was an outward sign of my inward change. Yes I have been baptized. The salvation came from the Almighty work and blessing our our God through His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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Jesus did not say that whoever is not baptized will be condemned. It logically follows that we get water baptized after we believe and are saved, but if no water is available (particularly due to a death bed conversion) you will still be saved because you BELIEVE which is in harmony with Mark 16:16(b); John 3:18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31 etc..

Jesus clarifies the first clause with "but he who does not believe will be condemned” in Mark 16:16. So once again, if water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.
It was unnecessary for Jesus to say if you are not baptized you will be damned. The reason for that is: if you do not believe, why would you be baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the HS? You would not, therefore it was given that if you do not believe you will be damned, and no need to mention baptism.

It mentions in Mark 16:16 that you have to be baptized in order to be saved. How many more times does it have to be said to be valid?
Just because it does not mention it in these other scriptures, I can quote just as many more scriptures that do mention baptism is essential.
Go to this website and see the history of baptism and you will see:
https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-necessity-of-baptism

I know this is a Catholic site and you folks are not big on Catholic doctrines (neither am I) except we do think alike in terms of baptism being essential to salvation, as does at least 50% of Christians. They give good historical information about baptism.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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Baptism did not save me. It was an outward sign of my inward change. Yes I have been baptized. The salvation came from the Almighty work and blessing our our God through His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
You are correct, baptism does not save anyone that does not trust Jesus and his promises and lives the way Jesus intended Christians to live. But I can tell you this, that if you had chosen not to be baptized, you would have no place with Jesus, because he said to follow him, and if you chose not to be baptized, you would have not followed him and in that case he would not have you in his sheep fold.
Remember his sheep hear his voice and follow him. The most memorable thing Jesus did was to go down into the waters of baptism and that started his earthly ministry. On that occasion all 3 persons of the Trinity were present also, so it was a very important event and a perfect example for all who were to follow Jesus.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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Ben you said the following



So the bolded above is you saying "I am right" therefore trying to prove yourself right.

I don't actually have a problem with that because we all do it, whether it be directly or covertly.

After all we only post given our convictions that we consider the truth.
So you have said "That I am right" by saying that then the person you responded to is wrong, not you but the person you responded to.

So we have discussed baptism to save, forgiveness given 109% to be saved (but you feel if we do not then we have a chance to forgive when we stand before God).

That's been discussed between us, we could flog it more but I see no point.

So as you are willing to discuss can you explain to me, like I asked you originally concerning what you are trying to convey concerning the Sabbath.

Ta
I have talked to many Christians that say they do not have to attend church on Sunday because they are no longer under the Law of Moses. Because they are under grace, they feel like they are freed from Sabbath restrictions even though our Christian Sabbath is on Sunday, the Lords day, instead of Saturday.

To me that is a dangerous position to take, because I believe that the fellowship available in church is important and hearing the word of God is important, so when someone tells me they are free from having to go to church on Sunday, I feel like their pastor is giving them bad information about what it means to be free from the Law of Moses because we are under grace.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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A false Gospel ALWAYS has conditions !!!!!
Well lets take that to its obvious conclustion. If there are no conditions, then
1) we don't even have to believe in Jesus.
2) we don't have to have faith in Jesus.
3) we don't have to have love for Jesus.
4) we can murder as many times as we want.
5) etc., etc., etc.

I hope you can see where I am going with your statement. There are always conditions. For instance if you never feel the promptings to ask God about His Son Jesus Christ, you will never get an answer that he is the Son of God and should be worshipped. So at the very start or you jouney to EL is a condition that you must believe in Jesus Christ.

If you read your bible and you are honest with yourself you will see many conditions that you must adhere to in order to be saved.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Well lets take that to its obvious conclustion. If there are no conditions, then
1) we don't even have to believe in Jesus.
2) we don't have to have faith in Jesus.
3) we don't have to have love for Jesus.
4) we can murder as many times as we want.
5) etc., etc., etc.

I hope you can see where I am going with your statement. There are always conditions. For instance if you never feel the promptings to ask God about His Son Jesus Christ, you will never get an answer that he is the Son of God and should be worshipped. So at the very start or you jouney to EL is a condition that you must believe in Jesus Christ.

If you read your bible and you are honest with yourself you will see many conditions that you must adhere to in order to be saved.
here is where the disconnect is, And it follows that here is where pride and self righteousness comes in

1. Faith and belief is the work of God (not the calvinist view, but the bible says it is the work of God)
2. A person who is not saved CAN NOT love God, so if love is a requirement, then no one will be saved. (we love because god loved us first) as a child must learn to love his or her parents, a child of Gd learns to love their heavenly father, Again, This is not a requirment to being saved, it is a result of being saved
3. Of course, the pharisee self righteous view of praising God your not like the sinner. Your self righteousness causes God to puke you do realize this do you not? Murder/lieing/coveting/pride? God hates them all.. if stopping sin is a requirement, then no one will make it, because no one can live up to Gods standard, which is perfection.

of course if you knew God, you would know no one who knows God wishes to go out and murder anyone, let alone all they want. That is not their nature, Unlike a newe believer, their nature is not to sin, but to walk with God. Which is why John said a child of God can not live in sin, because they have been made new (born again)
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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here is where the disconnect is, And it follows that here is where pride and self righteousness comes in

1. Faith and belief is the work of God (not the calvinist view, but the bible says it is the work of God)
2. A person who is not saved CAN NOT love God, so if love is a requirement, then no one will be saved. (we love because god loved us first) as a child must learn to love his or her parents, a child of Gd learns to love their heavenly father, Again, This is not a requirment to being saved, it is a result of being saved
3. Of course, the pharisee self righteous view of praising God your not like the sinner. Your self righteousness causes God to puke you do realize this do you not? Murder/lieing/coveting/pride? God hates them all.. if stopping sin is a requirement, then no one will make it, because no one can live up to Gods standard, which is perfection.


of course if you knew God, you would know no one who knows God wishes to go out and murder anyone, let alone all they want. That is not their nature, Unlike a newe believer, their nature is not to sin, but to walk with God. Which is why John said a child of God can not live in sin, because they have been made new (born again)
So let me see if I can follow you. You are defending the idea that there are no conditions necessary for one to be saved. Is that right?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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So let me see if I can follow you. You are defending the idea that there are no conditions necessary for one to be saved. Is that right?
That what the term "not by works" means, and the term "salvation by grace" means, and the term "eternal life" as apposed to the term "conditional life" means correct?

Jesus met all the conditions, because you could not. Unless you think you can do more than Jesus did. In which case, No one can help you.