Not By Works

[BillG]

That sounds so good,, but what i canr figure is why should the new body be diffrent. (Ihave never Got this despite of all the theories. ?.

Jimbo

Maybe the following will help.

https://www.gotquestions.org/resurrection-body.html

I have never understood what it will be.

In a simple base sense for me when I look at Jesus after the resurrection he could do things with his resurrected body that he could not do before.

John 20:19-20
The Apostles Commissioned
Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.

I heard a preacher say once that we will have bodies but they won't be limited as the bodies we have this side of eternity.

Part of me thinks a bit like this.

A new heaven and and new earth. I have always wanted to go to New Zealand.
Now if the new earth has New Zealand then maybe I could just go there, no need to get on a plane.

 

[Ariel82]

Jesus may We by like you to each other and those you have given us.

when you ask us to build in others may we build on the rock, which is you.
May we teach the true foundation which is you.
And I pray we ourselves build each other up with love, wisdom and sacrifice

Amen and Amen.

 

[PeterJens]

Originally Posted by PeterJens

Funny how people so keen to condemn the Pharisees for their belief in being righteous
and chosen, yet the same people are certain they will be in heaven and God has zero
issues with them. Is this not a version of exactly the same thing???

yup you could be destroyed i get what your saying but i guess you would only see it was in front of you... its hard to see it here mate God bless i think that what you ment my apolagies

The people who declare what the spirit it behind everything, often end up ship wrecked.
It often becomes the people they are condemning are another version of themselves, and
when it finally comes home to them, they have no where to go.

God is good, but if we spend too much time seeing what is wrong with those who have
a distorted view of things, it changes too much and discourages our walk.

So I prefer to praise the Lord and walk in His ways and love those I meet. People will
believe what they believe, I will never affect them, it is only the light within that brings
people closer to the King. God bless, I hope tonight we find blessing in the Lord in our
house group, on Nehemiah and restoring the walls, chapter 2.

See you later May His Spirit rule in your hearts, Amen.

 

[slave]

And we should kill that or admit it is already dead and cut it out of our being like a tumor taking nutrients from the rest of our bodies.

It is not an "OR" thing, however, you continued your thought and added "AND", so , yes, But we cannot cut it completely out, we must remain in Christ, and it will not rule, while here on the earth but outside of Christ it will want to rule again. But by our living out our life in faith, God will empower us to be graced up daily and walk according to the spirit and not according to the flesh. We must choose this inwardly and onwardly, and we must implement His power and exercise our faith accordingly.

Position:

"I HAVE BEEN CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST and I (or individuality) no longer live, but Christ lives in me (Christ-likeness)." (Galatians 2:20)
;
Thus, our position in Christ first recognizes things already accomplished in Christ as we then walk on as He walked in the world:

Experience:

"..put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry." (Col. 3:5).

For if ( a choice) you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to (a choice in the spirit) death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. (Romans 8:13).

Thus, as we sit in Christ, then we walk, but then we also stand; (Which, then is our attitude toward the enemy - our spiritual enemy for our battle is not against flesh and blood!):

"Put on the full Armor of God so that you 'can' take your stand (Your stand in Christ, willed by Christ, of God's victory seen in you) against the devil's schemes." (Ephesians 6:11).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Btw eternaly grateful you are on my ignor so do the right thing and not respond to me untill im ready to forgive you for your ill mannered behavior..

Honor and obey are the fruits of the seed........... and if you continue to honor and obey you will go to heaven...

Hey Jimbo,

Just keep me on ignore.. Maybe it is better that way,

Because I will always be up when it comes to the gospel. and never repent of being that way,

You think because you honor and obey you will get to heaven. You rnot honoroing God, you are honoring self.. God will not recieve your self righteousness.

If that sounds harsh to you, So be it.. It is something you need to hear.

 

[JIMBO43]

Hi Grace,
You wrote a very nice post to me to which I wanted to reply. I've been busy but wanted to spend some time with it, instead this thread goes too fast and I can't find it anymore!

I agree with everything you say. The problem I have is that some people hear what they want to hear and not what the person is saying.

I was at a funeral mass the other day and a very nice priest (a friend) spoke about the DOOR, the GATE. You have to go through the gate. Who is the gate? Jesus. The RCC does teach belief in Jesus, but many do not HEAR this. At the luncheon I spoke about this and no one at that table (except for my born again daughter) understood what the priest said, although it could not be clearer.

SO, when a new Christian reads along, he might get the impression from reading certain things (which I happen to agree with)
that he JUST HAS TO HAVE FAITH IN JESUS, and all will be just fine --- when in reality Jesus said we are to do the work of the Kingdom.

I've thought about this and I believe the difficulty I personally have here is the Language we speak.

We talk about works...


Works are necessary as we all agree.
So maybe the problem is with the words "LAW" and "GRACE"?

A girl at out table told me she goes to Mass because she feels she has to. This is following the Law.
I told her it's like not even going, and she should go because she loves God. This is Grace.

She's still going to Mass, but one is efficacious and the other is of no value.
BOTH ARE A WORK.

Everything we do is a work. It's just that some have value and some don't.
We still must FOLLOW THE LAW. It was NOT abolished.
But the REASON we follow the Law and do works is what counts.

So, OF COURSE we are saved by faith ALONE.
Works come after.

When we say that FAITH ONLY STILL SAVES US AND CONTINUES TO SAVE US,
that's where I fear some may misunderstand.

Continued salvation, or progressive justification, or sanctification, ARE a cooperative effort which includes man.

AND we cannot say that God does everything in us.
If this were true, then He would also have to accept the responsibility when we do not listen to Him and sin.
WE are RESPONSIBLE for our once time decision (salvation) and our daily decisions (sanctification).

Thessalonians 3:11 tells us to work and not be idle. Paul meant real work, like at a job, however some had stopped doing everything and instead Paul said we are to continue to do everthing --- until the Lord returns. In verse 14 Paul goes so far as to say to not associate with those who do not obey his instructions.

Thessalonians 4:3 it is God's will that we be sanctified --- and then it goes on to say what we are not to do. Paul says that the Lord will punish those for such sins. This means that WE are responsible for our own sins and cannot blame God.

Paul goes on to say that God called us to live a holy life, and he who rejects this does not reject man but rejects God, who gives us the Holy Spirit.

Faith and belief in Jesus DOES CONTINUE to save us.
But what does BELIEF in Jesus mean?
Everyone here, including yourself, seems to understand Greek.
BELIEF in the Greek means TO FOLLOW, to AGREE WITH, TO OBEY.

So, my question is simple:
Is it correct to say that ONLY FAITH CONTINUES to save?
Or should we say that our OBEDIENCE of faith continues to save us?

Yes and a big yes for this inspired scripture which it has now become like many other scriptures in this thread lol...

Anyways this is exactly what i have argued all along and that is what does it mean to believe.....

 

[BillG]

Btw eternaly grateful you are on my ignor so do the right thing and not respond to me untill im ready to forgive you for your ill mannered behavior..

Honor and obey are the fruits of the seed........... and if you continue to honor and obey you will go to heaven...

Jimbo,

If you have been offended try not to wait until you are ready to forgive or even wait for an apology to forgive.

How many times should you forgive? What did Jesus say?

I think we all need to be careful as such.

We can all take offence where no offence was meant. This tends to happen when a raw nerve is hit based on our life experiences have built up barriers of self protection and preservation.

To me even if it the offence is blatant and hostile we need to forgive me do it quickly regardless of whether an apology is forth coming.

Its called unilateral forgivness, the forgivness that Jesus did on the cross.

[h=1]“To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner was you"[/h]

 

[JIMBO43]

The people who declare what the spirit it behind everything, often end up ship wrecked.
It often becomes the people they are condemning are another version of themselves, and
when it finally comes home to them, they have no where to go.

God is good, but if we spend too much time seeing what is wrong with those who have
a distorted view of things, it changes too much and discourages our walk.

So I prefer to praise the Lord and walk in His ways and love those I meet. People will
believe what they believe, I will never affect them, it is only the light within that brings
people closer to the King. God bless, I hope tonight we find blessing in the Lord in our
house group, on Nehemiah and restoring the walls, chapter 2.

See you later May His Spirit rule in your hearts, Amen.

Lol another greatly inspired moment haha.... seariously tho i do wish to engage with you now seeing as there is some sought of even ground...

Do you believe you can be saved... then unsaved.... then saved again..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jimbo,

If you have been offended try not to wait until you are ready to forgive or even wait for an apology to forgive.

How many times should you forgive? What did Jesus say?

I think we all need to be careful as such.

We can all take offence where no offence was meant. This tends to happen when a raw nerve is hit based on our life experiences have built up barriers of self protection and preservation.

To me even if it the offence is blatant and hostile we need to forgive me do it quickly regardless of whether an apology is forth coming.

Its called unilateral forgivness, the forgivness that Jesus did on the cross.

“To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner was you"

IE, FORGIVE others as God forgave us.. Unconditionally.

 

[JIMBO43]

Jimbo,

If you have been offended try not to wait until you are ready to forgive or even wait for an apology to forgive.

How many times should you forgive? What did Jesus say?

I think we all need to be careful as such.

We can all take offence where no offence was meant. This tends to happen when a raw nerve is hit based on our life experiences have built up barriers of self protection and preservation.

To me even if it the offence is blatant and hostile we need to forgive me do it quickly regardless of whether an apology is forth coming.

Its called unilateral forgivness, the forgivness that Jesus did on the cross.

“To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner was you"

I know the scripture but when i am ready to forgive is not the same as not wanting to forgive... is it.. so in my heart i have allready forgiven but.... showing the person that when there still doing it... is a waste of time in my book...god bless the king bro.....

 

[JIMBO43]

THOSE WHO GET JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW........WILL BE SEVERED FROM CHRIST.............................

i do not want this for anyone... atlas no i want to carry on playing good soccer with the lads in heaven....

 

[Ariel82]

Alright bro, let's see if I can make any sense with my response...lol, to start with, I know I don't have all the answers and I have more questions that I just wait for God to answer, but I will share with you what God has taught me so far.

That sounds so good,, but what i cant figure is why should the new body be diffrent. (I have never Got this despite of all the theories. ?.

we can look at the scriptures but I believe it will be different because the Bible says it will be and what Revelation 21 says about the New Heaven and New Earth. That God will wipe away our years.

I understand that the seed inside you cant be tainted,,,, and the seed being the spirit... What i have a hard time with is understanding that the spirit inside us can not stop our own soul from sinning..... It is written that soul that sins is the soul that dies,, This is not a statement ment for one person,,, this to me is ment for everyone..

So spirit who is Jesus can win the battle daily and never sin.. but yet the same spirit in us can not...Jeuses body was no diffrent to yours or mine..

soul and spirit are different. We have the same spirit but not the same soul...it's confusing because in Hebrew the word for the "inner most being" is translated "breath of life or soul" but in Greek the "inner most being or breath of life is translated "spirit" and the mind or the flesh is translated "soul or mind".

So when we look at the Bible verses we have to figure out what is really meant.

I can get the Greek and Hebrew words and Bible verses if you like. I am still trying to figure out how to explain it all coherently.

I understand that Jesus takes away the conviction and burden of sin.. And i understand he fights for us daily... However manytimes i switch off through out the day and this is when im out od sorts.... coz i know the enemy can sneak in an attack which is does all tho today as been a good day so far.... no attacks upto now... But surely the spirit should be a shield like a barrier around your Body..

I wish it were like that, but what good is a castle of you leave the drawbridge down?

Or how do you keep robbers out if you kids leave the window open with a rope ladder to allow them to sneak off at night?

When we sin we let down the drawbridge and leave a rope ladder to our minds that allows the enemy to torment us,until we turn back to God and repent of our sins and ask for his mercy and grace to rescue us again.

Some people think God HAS to HELP them,but he doesn't. He does because of love, not duty or cuz he "owes" us anything.

How come we are attacked in the frst place... My theorie is bad spirit has the power to break through when we are absent minded or not with it or asleep.....at which point even the the holy spirit cant break through whilst your cursing...

I believe the Holy Spirit is there but when we tell and curse, we can't hear Him speak.

Sure i get that thanks for your explanation.. ill remember that in future... But for some scripture as you know is meat and some milk... i thinks it important to know when to give either...certainly getting to know someone first befor dishing out meat is a good idea..

very true. We need to get to know others and have them know we love them or its just clanging cymbals. Just like we allow others to know us and love us too. Personally I listen to a rebuke from someone I know respects and loves me more than from a stranger.

yeah sad i know but why should that bother us if where walking in the spirt.

because it bothers God to see people lost and enslaved. Jesus came to set the captives free.

Why do bad doctrines exist.

Satan loves lies and has deceived many.

I could write a book on the possibilities ,,, my answer is there are so many bad doctrins coz everyone including you thinks they have it all worked out including me. lol..

well I don't believe I have it all worked out. I know just enough to live my life for God's glory, but there is much I know that I don't know the answers to,

But now i look above this mentality with an open heart open to interpratation.. and understanding of anothers belief... I will from now on try to be this way..

amen, I pray that we all come to this place of wisdom.

The other day i was confronted with a pakistani lady face to face who told me Jesus was a profit only and he will come back as the messiah.. but God does not have children so Jesus being the son of God is false... i was tollerant with her just looked her in the eye and she knew instantly i didnt agree a moment later she also still carried on to look at me coz i was showing her kindness with out speaking....we never became enemies and that was that...end of story..

sounds like God's love working through you to me. Eventually she will see that you don't just preach your faith, you live it. That's how hearts and minds are changed, when we follow Jesus in not just words but heart and seed. Maybe she will ask for your testimony one day and you can tell her more about who Jesus really is and how He can save HER too. However it's in God's timing, not ours.

That a good idea and well inspired

Blaming God is rebellion to.. and not just satanism... How ever undersdtanding of this field can also be mourning a loved one you have lost coz you dont understand why it happened.

So your reaction would be to blame God coz hes supposed to protect you...and you dont understan why or how you could recieve so much harm in another situation... My guess is God is still there at this point...which doesnt give a free liscence to sin but rather a battle that must be won... i see it as lost and in need to be refound and recieving salvation of the soul once more...

yeah but even then God still loves them,even when they rebel and He draws them towards himself even when we grieve.

Yes given by the grace of god... and like saying saved by the grace of God and not we are saved by grace alone..

38Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.” 39Jesus also told them a parable: “Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit?…

This the word of jesus saying do a good works and i will give you one back...

I always thought that verse was about judgement and forgiveness. God forgive you and you should forgive others. If instead you insist on"judging" or condemning them,they God will "give the same measure" to you.

Like you say "he should be cursed and his kids die because of the harm he did me" then God may decide to let that curse happen to YOU instead because it is easy to find sins folks are guilty of.

selfish ambition maybe but by no means something we should hate someone for if you feel that someone is posting for a selfish ambition.. then you can test the spirit. i think we need time to think on this... on how e test and how we react... where as me not being perfect would react strasight away,,, i guess i have a hard time taming the tounge too too..

I hate sin, deception and lies. I don't hate people. Only way I have found for taking the tongue is praying. Sometimes we all need reminders and that is what my brothers and sisters do.

If I cross the line or if someone gets under my skin, one of them gently rebukes me and reminds me that I am God's ambassador and need to represent HIM and not myself or my hurt pride.

Thank yeah sure why not ill send you an invite when we have another gathering of all the world great spiritual christians from arount hte world... You could even like it...

sounds like fun. A CC world gathering day? Where and when?

Yes God plays a part in our Good works but it is written that we must perform to verry important works to let Jesus know we are truly his...

God already knows we are His. We do good works to show the world that God loves them still.

Which is honor and obey (works) which if you do that daily you can be rest assured that your soul is continueing to recieve your daily salvation rescue...God bless you sister..

Honor and obey aren't what I consider good works. They are just a part of who i am as a new creation, born again child of God.

Good works to me means acts of love.

For example, you listening to the lady, hugging a crying child, giving clothes to flood victims, taking in orphans,feeding the homeless, fellowshiping and worshipping with fellow believers, etc.

Actions that reveal God's love to the world, that is my definition of a good work.

 

[BillG]

The people who declare what the spirit it behind everything, often end up ship wrecked.
It often becomes the people they are condemning are another version of themselves, and
when it finally comes home to them, they have no where to go.

God is good, but if we spend too much time seeing what is wrong with those who have
a distorted view of things, it changes too much and discourages our walk.

So I prefer to praise the Lord and walk in His ways and love those I meet. People will
believe what they believe, I will never affect them, it is only the light within that brings
people closer to the King. God bless, I hope tonight we find blessing in the Lord in our
house group, on Nehemiah and restoring the walls, chapter 2.

See you later May His Spirit rule in your hearts, Amen.

Hey PJ,

Can your first verse not be reciprocated along with your second paragraph?

I commend your 3rd paragraph line one.
With regard to line two I think you fall foul of your two first paragraphs because you say you will never affect them but given all your posts you are trying to affect them based on everything that you feel the Holy Spirit has given you.

That being the case where do you go? You go back to your holding place.

The same is for all of us.

Enjoy your house group and may Jesus bless you all as you meet.

 

[Ariel82]

I know the scripture but when i am ready to forgive is not the same as not wanting to forgive... is it.. so in my heart i have allready forgiven but.... showing the person that when there still doing it... is a waste of time in my book...god bless the king bro.....

It's never a waste of time to show love. But yeah i have to ignore some folks too because they make me mad and I don't want to speak out of anger.

 

[BillG]

IE, FORGIVE others as God forgave us.. Unconditionally.

Exactly. It's hard no denying that.

But what you said is the truth.

 

[Ariel82]

EG I am pretty sure Jimbo is against works salvation cuz he accused me of it months ago.

Everyone tends to get heated (thus the name calling and labels) and often folks make statements that are hard to understand (some I still don't know what they truly believe) , but we should make the effort to ask for folks to clarify their beliefs instead of assume we already know them.

 

[JIMBO43]

Alright bro, let's see if I can make any sense with my response...lol, to start with, I know I don't have all the answers and I have more questions that I just wait for God to answer, but I will share with you what God has taught me so far.

we can look at the scriptures but I believe it will be different because the Bible says it will be and what Revelation 21 says about the New Heaven and New Earth. That God will wipe away our years.

soul and spirit are different. We have the same spirit but not the same soul...it's confusing because in Hebrew the word for the "inner most being" is translated "breath of life or soul" but in Greek the "inner most being or breath of life is translated "spirit" and the mind or the flesh is translated "soul or mind".

So when we look at the Bible verses we have to figure out what is really meant.

I can get the Greek and Hebrew words and Bible verses if you like. I am still trying to figure out how to explain it all coherently.

I wish it were like that, but what good is a castle of you leave the drawbridge down?

Or how do you keep robbers out if you kids leave the window open with a rope ladder to allow them to sneak off at night?

When we sin we let down the drawbridge and leave a rope ladder to our minds that allows the enemy to torment us,until we turn back to God and repent of our sins and ask for his mercy and grace to rescue us again.

Some people think God HAS to HELP them,but he doesn't. He does because of love, not duty or cuz he "owes" us anything.

I believe the Holy Spirit is there but when we tell and curse, we can't hear Him speak.

very true. We need to get to know others and have them know we love them or its just clanging cymbals. Just like we allow others to know us and love us too. Personally I listen to a rebuke from someone I know respects and loves me more than from a stranger.

because it bothers God to see people lost and enslaved. Jesus came to set the captives free.

Satan loves lies and has deceived many.

well I don't believe I have it all worked out. I know just enough to live my life for God's glory, but there is much I know that I don't know the answers to,

amen, I pray that we all come to this place of wisdom.

sounds like God's love working through you to me. Eventually she will see that you don't just preach your faith, you live it. That's how hearts and minds are changed, when we follow Jesus in not just words but heart and seed. Maybe she will ask for your testimony one day and you can tell her more about who Jesus really is and how He can save HER too. However it's in God's timing, not ours.

yeah but even then God still loves them,even when they rebel and He draws them towards himself even when we grieve.

I always thought that verse was about judgement and forgiveness. God forgive you and you should forgive others. If instead you insist on"judging" or condemning them,they God will "give the same measure" to you.

Like you say "he should be cursed and his kids die because of the harm he did me" then God may decide to let that curse happen to YOU instead because it is easy to find sins folks are guilty of.

I hate sin, deception and lies. I don't hate people. Only way I have found for taking the tongue is praying. Sometimes we all need reminders and that is what my brothers and sisters do.

If I cross the line or if someone gets under my skin, one of them gently rebukes me and reminds me that I am God's ambassador and need to represent HIM and not myself or my hurt pride.

sounds like fun. A CC world gathering day? Where and when?

God already knows we are His. We do good works to show the world that God loves them still.



Honor and obey aren't what I consider good works. They are just a part of who i am as a new creation, born again child of God.

Good works to me means acts of love.

For example, you listening to the lady, hugging a crying child, giving clothes to flood victims, taking in orphans,feeding the homeless, fellowshiping and worshipping with fellow believers, etc.

Actions that reveal God's love to the world, that is my definition of a good work.

lol ill try give all this a coherent answer soon.. but lol yeah loved it good post..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG I am pretty sure Jimbo is against works salvation cuz he accused me of it months ago.

Everyone tends to get heated (thus the name calling and labels) and often folks make statements that are hard to understand (some I still don't know what they truly believe) , but we should make the effort to ask for folks to clarify their beliefs instead of assume we already know them.

Well it seems every time I asked, I was being mean and spiteful and offensive..lol. I think I will be honest and say I do not know what he believes. If I see home make comments, like obey and you will get to heaven, then I question

 

[BillG]

I know the scripture but when i am ready to forgive is not the same as not wanting to forgive... is it.. so in my heart i have allready forgiven but.... showing the person that when there still doing it... is a waste of time in my book...god bless the king bro.....

I know you know the scripture that's why I did not quote it.

I also know that you are not as thick as I look.

So let me say what I think you were saying?

When I am ready to forgive your on my ignore.
Now you say in my heart I have already forgiven.

Does that not sound contradictory?

Maybe not you but maybe to those that read your original post. And to be honest that's what I saw.
Hence my post to you.

 

[BillG]

EG I am pretty sure Jimbo is against works salvation cuz he accused me of it months ago.

Everyone tends to get heated (thus the name calling and labels) and often folks make statements that are hard to understand (some I still don't know what they truly believe) , but we should make the effort to ask for folks to clarify their beliefs instead of assume we already know them.

Jimbo like us all loves Jesus.

We all have different ideas, theological positions as to what it means to love Jesus.

The true point is though 'We want to be like Jesus cause we love Jesus'

Jesus sees that and to me will honour that.

As long as we don't distract from Jesus, son of God who died and rose again for our sin, to reconcile us back to the Father then I will walk with them as the day is long.