Not By Works

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Jul 2, 2018
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19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


  • Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth

James is addressing Christians, who go astray.


  • someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way

A Christian who wanders from the truth, is a sinner in need of repentance.


  • he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death

Christians who neglect their salvation and wander from the truth will face eternal death unless they are turned back to the truth.




JPT
A very mature brother in the Lord told us once (with a "take heed" look on his face), that the Israelites failed to enter in, not because of unbelief, but obstinancy.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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If we believe not "after belief" HE ABIDES FAITHFUL BECAUSE HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF<---HIS BLOOD AND RIGHTEOUSNESS HAVE BEEN ETERNALLY APPLIED BY FAITH!
Jesus will not force a man or woman to abide in him, even if a man or woman at one time said they would. If a man or a woman reject their belief in Jesus and turn away and never repent and return, Jesus will reject them, even if one time they believed.
There has to be a morsal of common sense in your belief system.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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A very mature brother in the Lord told us once (with a "take heed" look on his face), that the Israelites failed to enter in, not because of unbelief, but obstinancy.
Who is the one being obstinant? You believe that you are saved the second you believe and that you are covered from that second until you die with the grace of Jesus. Some scriptures lead you to believe that your thoughts are valid. But there are many more scriptures that lead you to believe that your thoughts are not valid. So do you investigate those scriptures to see if you need an adjustment? Or do you dig in your heals and become obstinant about the whole salvation process?
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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He did not say what you assume he said....and NO ONE CAN UNSAVE THEMSELVES....more ignorance from your man made religion!
So you are saying that a man or woman who hates Jesus will be allowed in his Kingdom, to spread contempt and lies and foster rebellion?
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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“If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine. Those who continue in His word demonstrate they are truly disciples of Jesus. Again, this is saved FOR works NOT saved by works. In John 8:31-59, notice where the Jews who were said to have "believed on him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in.
Hi Mailmandan, Amen! Quote: "When Jesus speaks we listen"
Matthew28:18
18 "And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
So you are saying that a man or woman who hates Jesus will be allowed in his Kingdom, to spread contempt and lies and foster rebellion?
LOL:ROFL:


wow... you stretch pretty hard to make them silly strawmen of yours ben
 
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theanointedsinner

Guest
actually what dcontroversal is talking about is that
when saved, God gives people a new nature, and that new nature grows as the old nature shrink, and eventually, the new nature will ascend to heaven, and the strawman benhur presented will not happen in heaven.

the new nature is not fully grown, and there's minimal signs of the new nature, which is why the debate and the constant doubting of other party's salvation rages on
 
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theanointedsinner

Guest
as an analogy, when the mother is pregnant, for the first day, the mother needs to use the pregnancy test, so just because we don't see any outward signs of pregnancy doesn't negate the possibility that the woman is pregnant

same for the possibility of salvation, which we need to give others the benefit of the doubt
 
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theanointedsinner

Guest
I bet that those who are against OSAS are most worried that felons will be sent to heaven, commit felony and ruin heaven

while those who believe OSAS is true, have full faith in the saving power of Jesus, rely on Jesus to "produce evidence of salvation"

which we need to make sure to know what "evidence" means

ev·i·dence
ˈevədəns/
noun
noun: evidence
  1. 1.
    the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
 
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theanointedsinner

Guest
and just because people turn a blind eye to evidence, doesn't mean that the evidence isn't there
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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LOL:ROFL:


wow... you stretch pretty hard to make them silly strawmen of yours ben
Has there not been a war in heaven before? Lucifer and his angels who were eventually cast out of heaven. Is my statement such a stretch?

But for argument sake, let me just say that Jesus will not force men and women that hate him into his Kingdom. There, does that make it a little more compatible?
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
All Sabbbatismos and I and James ever say is that your faith must be followed by good works, or you will prove yourself to be a make believer, because good works always follows a genuine faith. If you insist on calling that an embellishment, or a topper offer, you call it what you will, but the sign of a genuine faith is good works. (Not works of the law)




prove to who?



God doesnt need proof.....

so who will your works prove your faith to




and
how does this tie with your opinions regarding baptism

:unsure:



you believe someone needs to get baptized in water to be saved



or do you believe that is proof they were already saved?


sounds to me like youre flip flopping
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
Has there not been a war in heaven before? Lucifer and his angels who were eventually cast out of heaven. Is my statement such a stretch?

But for argument sake, let me just say that Jesus will not force men and women that hate him into his Kingdom. There, does that make it a little more compatible?

no........




the words you tried to impute to dcon sound no less ridiculous than they did a moment ago


and falling back on the second strawman that has already been torn down more than once doesnt help your cause


not one who is SAVED (from a just punishment through the grace of God) ends up in the lake of fire


Gods gifts are without repentance
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Has there not been a war in heaven before? Lucifer and his angels who were eventually cast out of heaven. Is my statement such a stretch?

But for argument sake, let me just say that Jesus will not force men and women that hate him into his Kingdom. There, does that make it a little more compatible?
Yes it is a stretch

Your response to DC

So you are saying that a man or woman who hates Jesus will be allowed in his Kingdom, to spread contempt and lies and foster rebellion?
Based on his previous post.

He did not say what you assume he said....and NO ONE CAN UNSAVE THEMSELVES....more ignorance from your man made religion!
.

Where did DC say that anyone who hates Jesus will be allowed in his kingdom?
How on earth have you read that in his post?

Of course Jesus will not allow people who hate him into heaven, also he will not allow people into heaven whom have not accepted him as Lord and saviour yet do not hate him, they just do not believe it to be the truth, him the truth.

The truth being what?

Over to you.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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We are saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Amen and Amen
Either way, God's People Walk in these "Good Work's" God has before ordained that we should walk in them.

Whether Jesus walks this path for us as you preach, or whether we are to Labor together with the Lord as the Bible teaches.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

The end result is the same.

1 John 2:
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES THAT PROMOTES DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD AND REJECTS AND NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS AND COMMANDS. (mark 7:6-13, Isaiah 5:20-24)



SO DO NOT LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU...FOR THE WRATH OF GOD COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.(Ephesians 5:6)



OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM (Hebrews 5:8-9) SAID:



Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD ; OBEY IT and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.



JESUS HAVE NOT FOUND THEIR DEEDS "COMPLETE" IN THE EYES OF GOD.



THEN HE TOLD THEM TO "OBEY" WHAT THEY RECEIVED AND HEARD AND TO REPENT.



JESUS WAS SPEAKING HERE TO ONE OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES AND WE KNOW THAT THE "CHURCH" IS THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE. (eph 5:23)



WHY WILL HE SAY THAT THEIR DEEDS ARE NOT COMPLETE IF WORKS ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION AND THAT "FAITH ALONE" SAVES?



WHY WOULD JESUS COMMAND THEM TO OBEY AND REPENT IF IT
IS NO LONGER NECESSARY SINCE THEY ARE SAVED ETERNALLY? (OSAS)



IS JESUS IGNORANT OF THIS DOCTRINE OR IS IT CONTRARY TO HIS TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS AND THEREFORE ARE JUST FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS?



JESUS AND HIS FATHER REQUIRE SOME WORKS TO BE COMPLETED AND ASKED FOR OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE.



Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.



Malachi 3:14 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty?



GOD REQUIRES OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE IN OUR PART OTHERWISE HIS WRATH WILL COME ON THOSE WHO ARE "DISOBEDIENT".(eph 5:6 )



Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?



John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.



2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.



DO NOT BE DECEIVED... GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED...WE REAP WHAT WE SOW...(Galatians 6:7-10)



NOW IF FAITH ALONE SAVES AND ONCE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED, DOES THIS PASSAGE BELOW CONTRADICT THESE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE OR DO YOU REJECT IT OR TWIST IT TO MEAN SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD FIT YOUR DOCTRINE?



Matthew 24:9-14 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time MANY WILL TURN AWAY FROM THE FAITH and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, THE LOVE OF MOST WILL GROW COLD, but HE WHO STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED . And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.



MANY WHO HAS FAITH WILL TURN AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH.



ARE THEY STILL SAVED AFTER TURNING AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH(ALONE)?



DO YOU MOCK GOD AND REJECT THESE VERSES BELOW?



Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature WILL REAP DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.



James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD..

"LET GOD BE TRUE..." (Romans 3:3-4)
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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IT’S DISAPPOINTING TO LEARN THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE CLAIMING TO BE CHRISTIANS CLING OR TRUST MAN MADE DOCTRINES MORE THAN THE TRUTH IN THE SCRIPTURES.

2 Timothy 3:15-17 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

THESE SELF-PROCLAIMED CHRISTIANS WOULD REJECT GOD’S WORDS, LAWS AND COMMANDS TO DEFEND WHAT WAS TAUGHT TO THEM BY THEIR CHURCH LEADERS.

Mark 7:6-13 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you HYPOCRITES; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; THEIR TEACHINGS ARE BUT RULES TAUGHT BY MEN.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “YOU HAVE A FINE WAY OF SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDS OF GOD in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who CURSES his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then YOU NO LONGER LET HIM DO ANYTHING for his father or mother. Thus YOU NULLIFY THE WORD OF GOD by your tradition that you have handed down. And YOU DO MANY THINGS LIKE THAT”

TO THEIR SHAME, THESE PEOPLE CLAIM TO KNOW GOD BUT BY THEIR ACTIONS THEY DENY HIM.( titus 1:16)

THEY CLAIM TO BE ETERNALLY SAVED ALTHOUGH THEY ARE DEAD IN THE EYES OF GOD (rev 3:1-6)

THEY NOT ONLY APPROVE OF THOSE WHO MOCK GOD AND TRAMPLED THE SON OF GOD UNDER FOOT.(psalms 49:13-15)

Hebrews 10:28-29 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

BUT THEY EVEN PRAISE THE ONE WHO CALLS JESUS “CURSED" WHILE MOCKING AND INSULTING THOSE WHO PROMOTE OBEDIENCE TO GOD AND HIS WORD THROUGH THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION.

Isaiah 5:20-24 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for THEY HAVE REJECTED THE LAW OF THE LORD ALMIGHTY AND SPURNED THE WORD OF THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL..

“WOE TO THOSE WHO CALL JESUS “CURSED” AND TEACHES DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WORDS AND COMMANDS.”

2 John 1:5-11 And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. ANY SUCH PERSON IS THE DECEIVER AND THE ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.

Corinthians 11:13-15 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.


“GOD’S WŔATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DIßOBEDIENT”

“GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED"

“LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR.”
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,277
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Either way, God's People Walk in these "Good Work's" God has before ordained that we should walk in them.

Whether Jesus walks this path for us as you preach, or whether we are to Labor together with the Lord as the Bible teaches.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

The end result is the same.

1 John 2:
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
Why did you not post the following and only post 3-5?

1 John 2:1-2
1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Why did you not post the following and only post 3-5?

1 John 2:1-2
1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
I have posted all these verses so many times I can't count them. The point of the scriptures is God has created a way, a path "beforehand" for us to walk in. That is the goal, "To walk even as He walked". If we fall, if we slip, which we will do, we have an advocate who will defend us to the Father.

But if our religious tradition transgress this Path God created beforehand, if our "practice" is to reject this fore ordained path, then if one believes in these scriptures, that person is liar, and has NO TRUTH.

Jesus said the same thing in John 14:

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

This "Truth" can only come from God after Jesus asks on our behalf. This same Word says the same thing in Jer.6.

16 Thus saith the LORD, (Word which became Flesh) Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths,(That God before ordained) where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls.


But they said, We will not walk therein. (No Truth, No Light)

And this same Word as a man said the same thing again in Matt. 11;

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

I meant nothing by not posting more scriptures, I am trying to make the points without writing a book on each post. I get criticized for that. I can not see how these other scriptures made void the point of the post. But it is good to include them as they also make the point of the Gospel. "My Children, sin not" "Go and sin no more". It all fits like a glove.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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121
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Yes it is a stretch

Your response to DC



Based on his previous post.

.

Where did DC say that anyone who hates Jesus will be allowed in his kingdom?
How on earth have you read that in his post?

Of course Jesus will not allow people who hate him into heaven, also he will not allow people into heaven whom have not accepted him as Lord and saviour yet do not hate him, they just do not believe it to be the truth, him the truth.

The truth being what?

Over to you.
It is a concept that is fully functional under OSAS. If a person is saved and then turns from Jesus and in fact hates him, the doctrine of OSAS by definition and regardless of his hate, that man must be saved by Jesus into his Kingdom.