Not By Works

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Of course, He wants His children to be Happy
HOWEVER, we will go through many trials:

1 Peter 1:5-9 (NCV)
5 God’s power protects you through your faith until salvation is shown to you at the end of time.
6 This makes you very happy, even though now for a short time different kinds of troubles may make you sad.
7 These troubles come to prove that your faith is pure. This purity of faith is worth more than gold, which can be proved to be pure by fire but will ruin. But the purity of your faith will bring you praise and glory and honor when Jesus Christ is shown to you.
8 You have not seen Christ, but still you love him. You cannot see him now, but you believe in him. So you are filled with a joy that cannot be explained, a joy full of glory.
9 And you are receiving the goal of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
for work salvationist
ask God to change your hearts to be motivated by nothing but love for God and others


for OSAS believers, just express love, to show that the love of God is in you

will this resolve peacefully?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,524
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I really think you should do a PrtScreen and send to all social media, as well I would definitely post it in the Life Bits section.

This is quite a momentous occasion, I am not really sure anything else compares in the history of all Christian internet Forums.:D
let's have it bronzed
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,524
10,514
113
And when they had received it, they complained against the landowner, saying,
‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us,
who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.’
But he answered one of them and said,
‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you. Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good?
(Matthew 20:11-15)
 
Dec 12, 2013
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d...,

That IS drivel........because it is not scriptural.

What you mean is they can become secure again...right?
No, I do not mean that, and my post was valid regardless of your ability to acknowledge truth....it seems rather obvious that you fail to understand why God chastens, whom he chastens and you lack understanding in many biblical narratives that prove my statement true!!
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
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No, I do not mean that, and my post was valid regardless of your ability to acknowledge truth....it seems rather obvious that you fail to understand why God chastens, whom he chastens and you lack understanding in many biblical narratives that prove my statement true!!
d...,
Valid by what means?...not scripture.
If you are going to used terminal words such as valid...then you must show proof...you do not. That is arrogant. You fail to understand and apply APA guidelines of communication. That is very important in verbal or written communications.
You repeatedly ignore proven scripture and maintain false interpretation of scriptures...arrogantly, sarcastically, in a condescending manner, smugly and defying traditional norms. Then you indignantly avoid responding to challenges inappropriately.

Here is a couple of points.....if OSAS is correct then why must G-d chasten one (which you acknowledge above)?
Why do we have unlimited forgiveness?
Why not just one time?
Why does The Bible tell us..."sacrifice for forgiveness is not available when sin is present"?.
Many, many more.
Further, why is OSAS, et al., bible interpretation NOT present in the Christian world, verbally or written, in study or sermons prior to the 1960's? (my research has not found any yet...)
What happened in the 1960's which validated that new age religion interpretation and made/make it valid? Did we just all of a sudden...get smarter.?..I doubt it! That makes no common sense.
If you wish to TRY to maintain your..... deliberately obtuse ........position you have many explanations of validated scripture to over come.

Suggest you start now or stop speaking wrongly of scriptures.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,235
4,183
113
Did you bother to read the verses I quoted from James 2 and the quote of Jesus in Matthew 7? Argue with James and Jesus.

"Faith without works is dead" is a quote from James 2.
"By their fruits you shall know them" is a quote of Jesus in Matthew

I agree, that AFTER SALVATION has BEEN GENUINELY COMPLETED by the HOLY SPIRIT, we WILL produce the fruit of LOVING OBEDIENCE.

That completed state is what we call BORN AGAIN, and it includes:

The Holy Spirit takes up residence in your HEART, never to Leave You.
The Born Again, Birth of our human spirit into Eternal Life.
A remorseful repentance of an Utterly Sinful Lifestyle.
GOD's LOVE was poured out in the Heart of the BELIEVER.
A willing, Loving surrender to JESUS CHRIST as LORD, meaning Master.
Submission to the Holy Spirit as TEACHER of Truth.
The beginning of the Power to Resist Temptation to Sin, by the Holy Spirit.
HE will give spiritual Gifts to the BELIEVER to serve HIM and Others.
HIS Word, becomes intensely Understandable, and exciting to read; hence it becomes the LIVING WORD OF GOD.
ETC.

YES that is DAY ONE, and even can be less than a single Hour. However full realization of what all took place in your heart will take time, as your young newborn human spirit FEEDS ON THE WORD OF GOD. Spiritual Maturity is directly relevant to how much of the WORD you take in. The more you study the WORD, you will notice that your human spirit grows more rapidly.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I agree, that AFTER SALVATION has BEEN GENUINELY COMPLETED by the HOLY SPIRIT, we WILL produce the fruit of LOVING OBEDIENCE.

That completed state is what we call BORN AGAIN, and it includes:

The Holy Spirit takes up residence in your HEART, never to Leave You.
The Born Again, Birth of our human spirit into Eternal Life.
A remorseful repentance of an Utterly Sinful Lifestyle.
GOD's LOVE was poured out in the Heart of the BELIEVER.
A willing, Loving surrender to JESUS CHRIST as LORD, meaning Master.
Submission to the Holy Spirit as TEACHER of Truth.
The beginning of the Power to Resist Temptation to Sin, by the Holy Spirit.
HE will give spiritual Gifts to the BELIEVER to serve HIM and Others.
HIS Word, becomes intensely Understandable, and exciting to read; hence it becomes the LIVING WORD OF GOD.
ETC.

YES that is DAY ONE, and even can be less than a single Hour. However full realization of what all took place in your heart will take time, as your young newborn human spirit FEEDS ON THE WORD OF GOD. Spiritual Maturity is directly relevant to how much of the WORD you take in. The more you study the WORD, you will notice that your human spirit grows more rapidly.

Is it "will" or "should"?

If it is "will" why all the exhorting and encouraging in the letters by Paul and others to do good?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,235
4,183
113
Is it "will" or "should"?

If it is "will" why all the exhorting and encouraging in the letters by Paul and others to do good?
Which is why HE SAID:

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.


Truly Born Again BELIEVERS will strive to obey the LORD, because they LOVE HIM.

Those without that will in their New Nature of their human spirit, are really YET to be Born Again.


John 14:20 (HCSB)
20 In that day you will know that I am in My Father, you are in Me, and I am in you.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
Which is why HE SAID:

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.


Truly Born Again BELIEVERS will strive to obey the LORD, because they LOVE HIM.

Those without that will in their New Nature of their human spirit, are really YET to be Born Again.


John 14:20 (HCSB)
20 In that day you will know that I am in My Father, you are in Me, and I am in you.

UG i believe he isnt saying perfectly obey or else you dont love God


but out of love for God His children keep....

5083. téreó
Strong's Concordance
téreó: to watch over, to guard​
Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Short Definition: I keep, guard, observe
Definition: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.


8104. shamar
Strong's Concordance
shamar: to keep, watch, preserve​
Original Word: שָׁמַר
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: shamar
Phonetic Spelling: (shaw-mar')
Short Definition: keep
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to keep, watch, preserve


...His commands



we know His words have greater value than anything on earth
and we hold them close to our heart

we dont just forget them or try to over write them

but we watch over them and judge ourself according to them and in love we examine ourself if we are in the spirit <- walking according to them


-> does not mean revolving door salvation, or sinless perfection to earn a gift


just an outward manifestation of what is inward

.... thanks to God working in us and it producing fruit <- 30 not less saved than....60 not less saved than 100 not more saved than 10​
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,235
4,183
113
UG i believe he isnt saying perfectly obey or else you dont love God


but out of love for God His children keep....

5083. téreó
Strong's Concordance​
téreó: to watch over, to guard

Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Short Definition: I keep, guard, observe
Definition: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.


8104. shamar
Strong's Concordance
shamar: to keep, watch, preserve

Original Word: שָׁמַר
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: shamar
Phonetic Spelling: (shaw-mar')
Short Definition: keep
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to keep, watch, preserve


...His commands



we know His words have greater value than anything on earth
and we hold them close to our heart

we dont just forget them or try to over write them

but we watch over them and judge ourself according to them and in love we examine ourself if we are in the spirit <- walking according to them


-> does not mean revolving door salvation, or sinless perfection to earn a gift


just an outward manifestation of what is inward

.... thanks to God working in us and it producing fruit <- 30 not less saved than....60 not less saved than 100 not more saved than 10

HE is saying, we WILL BE the ones STRIVING TO KEEP, that is my understanding.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but TO BRING SALVATION to those who are WAITING for him.


Romans 8:24-25 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? But IF WE HOPE FOR WHAT WE DO NOT HAVE YET we wait for it patiently.


2 Corinthians 4:18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For WHAT IS SEEN IS TEMPORARY, but WHAT IS UNSEEN IS ETERNAL.


THERE ARE SOME ON THIS FORUM WHO CLAIM TO HAVE ALREADY POSSESSED ETERNAL SALVATION. DO THEY NO LONGER WAIT FOR THE LORD TO BRING THEM SALVATION SINCE THEY ALREADY POSSESS IT? ARE THEY NOT GOING TO FACE JUDGMENT ANYMORE?


Philippians 3:12-16 NOT that I have already OBTAINED all this, or have ALREADY BEEN MADE PERFECT, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward THE GOAL to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are MATURE should take such a view of things. And if on some point YOU THINK DIFFERENTLY, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have ALREADY ATTAINED.


1 Peter 1:9 for you are receiving THE GOAL OF YOUR FAITH, the SALVATION of your souls.



SALVATION IS THE GOAL OF THOSE WHO ARE WAITING FOR HIM, THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST OF WHICH HE IS THE SAVIOR.


OSAS IS A FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES THE WORD OF GOD.


Mark 7:6-13 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “YOU HAVE A FINE WAY OF SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDS OF GOD in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then YOU NO LONGER LET HIM DO ANYTHING for his father or mother. THUS YOU NULLIFY THE WORD OF GOD by your tradition that you have handed down. AND YOU DO MANY THINGS LIKE THAT.”



JESUS SAID;


“If you love me, you will obey what I command.” john 14:15



…” If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”matthew 19:17



“ Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.” john 14:21-24



THIS FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINE TEACHES THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD IS JUST A WORK THAT MAN CAN DO BUT HAVE NO PART, NEITHER ESSENTIAL NOR NECESSARY FOR SALVATION WHICH CONTRADICTS THE FF:


Hebrews 5:7-9 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM.


A QUOTE FROM ElAmor’s POST


2 John 1:4-11 It has given me great joy to find some of your children WALKING IN THE TRUTH, just as the Father COMMANDED US. And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had FROM THE BEGINNING. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE. Many DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as COMING IN THE FLESH, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the DECEIVER and the ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who RUNS AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE in the TEACHING OF CHRIST does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him SHARES IN HIS WICKED WORK.

Who are those RUNNING AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST?

They are those who CLAIM SALVATION is by Faith ALONE and ONCE SAVED they are ALWAYS SAVED therefore rejecting God’s Laws and commands which are in fact God’s own words. says that even obedience to God cannot save anyone because they are works and Faith ALONE saves.

Who then is the deceiver and the ANTICHRIST?

They are those who do not continue in the teaching about WALKING IN LOVE which is WALKING IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. Who do not acknowledge Jesus as coming in the flesh by the mere fact that they reject the LAW that prophesied about Jesus as coming in the flesh.

1 John 2:1-6 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. THE MAN WHO SAYS, “I KNOW HIM,” BUT DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.””””””””




WE ARE TO WORK OUT OUR OWN SALVATION NOT AS INDIVIDUALS WORKING FOR HIS OWN SALVATION BUT AS ONE BODY IN CHRIST(eph 4:1-16) WORKING AS GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANTS OF GOD(mat 25:14-30) WHO ARE LIVING ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT AND NOT ACCORDING TO THE SINFUL NATURE.(rom 8:1-17) WE HONOR AND GLORIFY GOD BY THESE WORKS OF LOVE, FAITH AND OBEDIENCE THAT BEARS GOOD FRUITS THAT WILL LAST..(john 15:6-17)


Luke 3:9 the ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”



1 Peter 1:3-7 Praise to God for a living hope Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a LIVING HOPE through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade—kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the SALVATION THAT IS READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME. In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be PROVED GENUINE and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.



2 Peter 1:5-11 For this very reason, make every effort to ADD TO YOUR FAITH goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being INEFFECTIVE and UNPRODUCTIVE in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and BLIND, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his PAST SINS. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.


Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; OBEY IT AND REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.


Galatians 6:7-8 DO NOT BE DECEIVED, GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.


John 7:17-18 If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from

God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.


Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?


James 4:17 Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.


“DEAD FAITH CANNOT SAVE” ))james 2:14-26)



“LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR” rom 3:4
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
Syllogism

hatred exist
hatred can become love
Therefore, love is possible

no one deny that hatred exist, ask any complainer

hatred can become love <-- now, how can this be?
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
Romans 12:9-21 (KJV) Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;
Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;
Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;
Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.
Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.
Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.
Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,369
113
d...,
Valid by what means?...not scripture.
If you are going to used terminal words such as valid...then you must show proof...you do not. That is arrogant. You fail to understand and apply APA guidelines of communication. That is very important in verbal or written communications.
You repeatedly ignore proven scripture and maintain false interpretation of scriptures...arrogantly, sarcastically, in a condescending manner, smugly and defying traditional norms. Then you indignantly avoid responding to challenges inappropriately.

Here is a couple of points.....if OSAS is correct then why must G-d chasten one (which you acknowledge above)?
Why do we have unlimited forgiveness?
Why not just one time?
Why does The Bible tell us..."sacrifice for forgiveness is not available when sin is present"?.
Many, many more.
Further, why is OSAS, et al., bible interpretation NOT present in the Christian world, verbally or written, in study or sermons prior to the 1960's? (my research has not found any yet...)
What happened in the 1960's which validated that new age religion interpretation and made/make it valid? Did we just all of a sudden...get smarter.?..I doubt it! That makes no common sense.
If you wish to TRY to maintain your..... deliberately obtuse ........position you have many explanations of validated scripture to over come.

Suggest you start now or stop speaking wrongly of scriptures.
The first question you asked proves you have no insight...so tell us all genius..who does God chasten....here I will help....ONLY SONS WHOM HE RECEIVES....get some insight and then address me....A lost man is not a SON!!

And eternal security is found from front to back in the bible.....
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Which is why HE SAID:

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.


Truly Born Again BELIEVERS will strive to obey the LORD, because they LOVE HIM.

Those without that will in their New Nature of their human spirit, are really YET to be Born Again.


John 14:20 (HCSB)
20 In that day you will know that I am in My Father, you are in Me, and I am in you.
So that "will" in our new nature is in operation for all born again believers consistently and continually?

Can it be inoperative even within the born again believer?

Just trying to understand the details of your statement.:unsure:
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Syllogism

hatred exist
hatred can become love
Therefore, love is possible

no one deny that hatred exist, ask any complainer

hatred can become love <-- now, how can this be?
Are these lyrics to a song?
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
63
The first question you asked proves you have no insight...so tell us all genius..who does God chasten....here I will help....ONLY SONS WHOM HE RECEIVES....get some insight and then address me....A lost man is not a SON!!
And eternal security is found from front to back in the bible.....
d...,
That is not true. Another definitive statement without proper support.
You are relegating your commentary to the corner of ....poopy cock and dung heap.


Your position is not biblical and you know it. The reason for inappropriate response.