Not By Works

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Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
="eternally-gratefull, post: 3690613, member: 82611"]If you sin, the law still condemns you. Period, non of those verses you keep posting overcomes that fact.


Yes, we all agree, the wages of sin is death. It is for this reason that man needs Mercy. And God provides this Mercy does He not?
I believe, by reading Shamah's posts, that he is full aware of God's teaching in this manner. I find nothing in his post's that would even hint to him trying to "overcome this fact". He has asked for someone to "quote him" as to see why people like you are making these accusations, which seems a reasonable request to me. Yet you, and many of your friends who come in Christ's name, refuse to offer even one quote from him to justify your accusations.

The Messiah never did such a thing.

Until you figure this out, you are under bondage, because your trying to appease god by your obedience, by following some law,


What are you saying here EG? That Shamah is held in bondage because he is "Glorifying God" by following His instructions? What "Law" has Shamah ever spoken of or posts scriptures regarding? "By following SOME Law"? This is purposefully misleading people about what this man says EG. And you know it. You should be ashamed of yourself for slighting a man who has simply shared God's Word with you.

The Messiah never did such a thing..

and not seeking after the thngs of the spirit, and focusing on love others, your focused on self,
Rom. 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

God's Law is Spiritual, at least according to Paul. Exactly what "things of the spirit" do you preach? Things from God? Or things from man?

And how is it not loving others to share God's Word with them? How is sharing this Word that we all know with garner ridicule, scorn and name calling and hate "focusing on self". If you believe Shamah's understanding of scriptures is in error, why don't you have the discussion about the scriptures? He posts many of them all the time. Surely the Word's of God matter still.

Isn't this exactly what the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time did when He and the Prophets gave them the same truth?

and what you think you must do, just like the jews did for years, when they too were under bondage, because they rejected grace and tried to replace it with law
.


You preach the Jews were trying to "appease God by obedience", by following some Laws.

While they did truly follow some Laws. The Messiah claims they were not following God's Laws, rather, they had created their own "Commandments". The had "omitted" important parts of God's Instructions.

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Not God as you preach)

Is Shamah the enemy because he believes the Christ in this matter while you do not?

Was Zechariahs a Jew? Why did the Messiah reveal Himself to Zechariahs, and not to the Pharisees? Could it be because of the promises He gave to us, both as the Word, and as the man Savior?

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, (Like Zechariahs) he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Maybe you should look in a mirror and examine yourself before ridiculing and attempting to discredit others who are devoted to the Messiah.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
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so, you have stated in the past that you have no need for any man to teach you, you think that the majority of us are " deceived by catholic traditions " or we are " following the commands of men", then what is the point of any of us having a conversation with you?

I have often wondered the same thing. If the Word's of the Christ offend you, why don't you just ignore those who post them?

I think some men need to exalt themselves by walking on others. For instance, I don't believe in your religion. I made my case and you rejected it. I'm OK with that. I don't stalk your posts, or insult you when speaking to other people. But for some reason you feel the need to continue your scorn and hatred even when we are not discussing scripture.

Jesus said it is not because of me that you are so bitter, but because you really don't like Him and His Father's Words, at least the Him of the Bible. I have no reason to disagree with him.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
It is The Messiah Himself that demands perfection.

"Be Ye perfect even as your father in heaven is perfect". If I strive to follow Him and His Word towards this goal, and I fall, which all men do, He gives Mercy so I can continue to learn HIS TRUTH. Even a decent father would do the same for any of his children.

A child that refuses to learn from a decent father, wiser than him, but rejects His fathers advice and creates his own, will end up in prison, or worse.

But a child that loves the father, will seek his advice and will learn from his rebukes and instructions to became a wise adult.

Even a human father understands a child must fall in order to learn how to walk. Surely you don't believe the God of Abraham is this unjust monster who gives His children instruction they can't follow, then kills them when they don't. That is not the God of the Bible.

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

The law demands perfection

Cursed is everyone who does not confirm and obey ever word of this law,

That would mean you, I and everyone in this room right here and right now is cursed.

We are not talking about how a christian should act, we are talking about how one is saved, or what they must do to maintain their salvation

Please keep on topic.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You're missing it!

Just like the Jews did. You can't make yourself perfect. The Law was to lead you to the realization you need HIM. Not to give you guidelines to try to make it yourself. That's exactly why the Jews created their own little sub-laws because they tried to perfect themselves.

That's the stumbling stone!

And until you receive freedom from Him. You're miles away from the obedience you seek. Because until you're free it's simply self-righteousness and unbelief to save your own skin. And we both know what Scriptures say about what God thinks of our self-righteousness before Him.
This is what they do not get,

The law was given to prove to us we are sinners, if we think we are not, the law has failed

The law was never given to show us how to be perfect, it was not created for that purpose,
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
Thank you to all my brothers and sisters who come here to continue sharing the truth of the gospel. (the good news of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ who deserves all of the glory)


I know it can be tiring, I've seen a lot of you at this for a long time showing your love by sharing the truth... even if you're often attacked for it....

may God CONTINUE to bless all of you
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,641
6,276
113
I have often wondered the same thing. If the Word's of the Christ offend you, why don't you just ignore those who post them?

I think some men need to exalt themselves by walking on others. For instance, I don't believe in your religion. I made my case and you rejected it. I'm OK with that. I don't stalk your posts, or insult you when speaking to other people. But for some reason you feel the need to continue your scorn and hatred even when we are not discussing scripture.

Jesus said it is not because of me that you are so bitter, but because you really don't like Him and His Father's Words, at least the Him of the Bible. I have no reason to disagree with him.
ahh , so you only speak the works of Christ. how many times I have heard that one before. it is the go-to claim of folks who think they know everything their is to know about Scripture.

and, I am bitter. bitter at the way you insult, belittle, and talk down to anyone, some of whom have way more grasp of Scripture than you. or me, for that matter.

you see, I am not infested with the disease of pride. I can take correction, I do not think I know everything their is to know about Scripture. I have no problem sitting under another person's teaching, as long as that person is teaching salvation by faith in Christ, and not by keeping the law, something the N.T. says over and over.

not by works means not by works. not under the law means not under the law. " it is finished " means it is finished. " who so ever believes in me shall be saved " means salvation by belief. " whoever does not believe is condemned " means hell for unbelievers, not whosoever does not keep the law.

the Father said of the Son " hear Him ." the Son said " all authority has been given to me ".

not only does this prove the truth of Trinity, it elevates the words in red over all other Scripture.

you can keep on counting on trying to do your best to obey what the Father said to Moses on Sinai, that is up to you.

but, as for me, I will believe what the Father said, hundreds of years after Sinai, ( that should matter, no? ), and listen to the Son.

no matter how much you and the other judeaizers try to turn us away from the Son, I and others will stand in your way. like it or not.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
The law demands perfection

Cursed is everyone who does not confirm and obey ever word of this law,

That would mean you, I and everyone in this room right here and right now is cursed.

We are not talking about how a christian should act, we are talking about how one is saved, or what they must do to maintain their salvation

Please keep on topic.
Is it the Law that said: "Be ye perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect". Or the Christ you claim to honor?

I think you take the "cursed" verse out of context. Was Abraham "Cursed" when he followed the instructions of the "Word which became Flesh"?

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Are we not to have the "Faith of Abraham"?

Luke 1:
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
7 And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years.

Was Zechariahs Cursed?

13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.

Didn't Zechariahs have the faith of Abraham as well?

But what of those preachers who "Transgressed God's Commandments" by their own religious traditions?

Matt. 23:
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Clearly you have been misinformed about God's "Curse".

I am keeping on topic.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
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It is The Messiah Himself that demands perfection.

"Be Ye perfect even as your father in heaven is perfect". If I strive to follow Him and His Word towards this goal, and I fall, which all men do, He gives Mercy so I can continue to learn HIS TRUTH. Even a decent father would do the same for any of his children.

A child that refuses to learn from a decent father, wiser than him, but rejects His fathers advice and creates his own, will end up in prison, or worse.

But a child that loves the father, will seek his advice and will learn from his rebukes and instructions to became a wise adult.

Even a human father understands a child must fall in order to learn how to walk. Surely you don't believe the God of Abraham is this unjust monster who gives His children instruction they can't follow, then kills them when they don't. That is not the God of the Bible.

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
If your interpretation is wrong, your application will be wrong "always"

"Sinless Perfectionist", love to focus on this verse and thereby misapply God's word to our life. "Be perfect, (mature), therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Jesus is not teaching His disciples to be "Sinless Perfectionists"

Matthew5:47,48
47)
And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48) Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Biblical definition of the word, "perfect"

teleios: having reached its end, i.e. complete, by ext. perfect

Original Word: τέλειος, α, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: teleios
Phonetic Spelling: (tel'-i-os)
Short Definition: perfect, full-grown
Definition: perfect, (a) complete in all its parts, (b) full grown, of full age, (c) specially of the completeness of Christian character.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Oo
Is it the Law that said: "Be ye perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect". Or the Christ you claim to honor?

I think you take the "cursed" verse out of context. Was Abraham "Cursed" when he followed the instructions of the "Word which became Flesh"?

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Are we not to have the "Faith of Abraham"?

Luke 1:
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
7 And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years.

Was Zechariahs Cursed?

13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.

Didn't Zechariahs have the faith of Abraham as well?

But what of those preachers who "Transgressed God's Commandments" by their own religious traditions?

Matt. 23:
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Clearly you have been misinformed about God's "Curse".

I am keeping on topic.
i am not sure why people keep talking to you

The law demanded perfection,

Anyone who did not meet that condition was cursed. Moses stated it, paul repeated it, and james confirmed it!

Jesus told us to be perfect, or strive to meet that condition, he never said we could, or we would be punching shed if we did not,

If you think you can be perfect, you have more problems than i can help you with.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Truth Talk says;

Jesus speaking to His disciples in the introduction to the beatitudes say's; Love your enemies and be "perfect" or "complete, mature, all grown up", as your Heavenly Father is perfect. Jesus is not telling His disciples to strive for "Sinless Perfectionism", no instead he is telling His disciples to be complete and mature in Christ.

"Sinless Perfectionist", love to focus on this verse and thereby misapply God's word to our life. "Be perfect, (mature), therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
Matthew5:47,48

47) And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48) Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Biblical definition of the word, "perfect"

teleios: having reached its end, i.e. complete, by ext. perfect

Original Word: τέλειος, α, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: teleios
Phonetic Spelling: (tel'-i-os)
Short Definition: perfect, full-grown
Definition: perfect, (a) complete in all its parts, (b) full grown, of full age, (c) specially of the completeness of Christian character.

Gen. 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,( reject the command( then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Do you believe this is true today? Must we reject God's instructions in order "see" the Truth?

Was the Lifestyle of the Christ an example of the perfect human being? Or did He live a life of observing worthless Jewish traditions?

Do you believe Jesus teaches that "be ye perfect" means to reject any of His Fathers Commandments?

John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

What Word's of God did He give us?

Matt. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Can you show me where the Father's Will was for us to reject His instructions? His Sabbaths?

Shouldn't God's Word be the guide to our feet, and not religious man?
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
This is simply an untruth according to the Bible. I don't think you know it, I'm sure you believe this, but it is an absolute falsehood. Remember, "A little leaven leavens the whole lump". What about all the doctrines you further that are founded on this falsehood?

This statement goes against EVERY WORD the Messiah, of the Bible, used to describe the Pharisees.

Jer. 5:
30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Not God as you Preach)

Matt. 23:4 For they ( Pharisees, not God as you preach) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

I could go on and on but you would complain about the long post.

What if it is you who is deceived regarding the Mainstream preachers of Christ's time, and not the Messiah?
You conveniently forgot Scriptures that disagree with you.

Example, Nicodemus. Jesus told him he was a teacher of Israel.

Pharisees devoted their life to teaching the Law, but they themselves did not follow it themselves.

But what you’re missing is, is that NO ONE did.

There isn’t ONE single person (besides our Lord) who was saved through observance to the Law.

Jesus Himself answers His discipled after explaining how hard it is for rich people to enter in... well then who can be saved? His statement with man it is IMPOSSIBLE.... no one gets in without God’s mercy.

The Law was to shut up all men in their sin. ALL men. So that He might have mercy on all men.

The Scriptures you are quoting are Jesus showing them how they are not following the Law of God themselves. And He’s also correcting them on traditions passed down on how the teachers say the Law should be applied.

But these Scriptures don’t mean the Pharisees didn’t know the Law! Paul himself named his pedigree by stating according to the Law I was a Pharisee.

Romans 7 Paul explains that he knew the Law, but inwardly it condemned him because of his desires. Paul realized it wasn’t enough to teach and know the Law, he needed freedom. And Christ alone is that freedom.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
We are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). ;)

Whenever someone continuously rambles on and on about works and comes across as judgmental, mean spirited and self righteous, it's not a good sign. :cautious:
True.

I think some people think they are saved because they understand they need works, but ignore they don’t have love which is the epitome of works.

So they find their safety in trying to get others to believe like them instead of their safety in God.
 
Aug 16, 2018
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Give it up already, HE is pleased with BOTH those who want to worship on Saturday, AND THOSE WHO CONSIDER EVERY DAY ALIKE FOR WORSHIP.

Romans 14:4-6 (NKJV)
4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
True enough.
I don't think God is going to condemn someone who begins their time with him so as to grow closer in that relationship starting sundown on Friday unto sundown on Saturday.

I don't think he's going to condemn those who sing to the Heavens from the pew on Sunday either.

I think when we begin to scream at one another, posting in all capitals, in order to get our point across, maybe we should pause over that key before striking it. Ask ourselves, how would we feel if someone screamed those typed words into our face? As is meant to be inferred by reading them in all capital letters.
Does screaming make the point true? Does someone pay more attention when a person speaks to them at high volume? Or does it instead appear someone screaming is very afraid what they believe may be wrong? And the volume of a wrong affirmation will drown that out.

Jesus is alive in the world right now. His spirit is alive in all things. Even behind that believer at their computer reading this now. I know Christ watches me write it. He's not screaming. He's not whispering. He's there. He is everywhere. And his spirit informs and guides all the time if we trust he knows more than we do. If we stop thinking we know best and trust him to know all we need to know to do as he wills for the best life possible as his representative. Even that is me misspeaking here. Christ is not a male. Christ is the holy sacred anointed spirit from which all creation is born and sustains itself eternally.

Why scream?
Why insist my faith and practice and love and commitment and relationship with Christ need be approved by anyone else at all? I know the word. The word was with God and the Word is God. God speaks. Isn't that enough?

Maybe it can become so for those for whom it is not yet. Maybe then we can be in community as the faithful anointed by the holy spirit and sharing in relationship where differences no longer exist in our holiness walk. And in our oneness as those in Christ are suppose to be.

Maybe stop before thinking to strike keys in anger so as to give someone a piece of your mind about a thing. Breathe and find peace of mind remembering what the Father told you. Recall Gideon. The parents of the great and mighty Samson. Abraham. And Lot. They all entertained strangers and yet were unaware they were entertaining and showing compassion and sharing community with angels.

What if an angel were to read your post? While Christ behind you and in all places in your life read what you were writing?

God works in mysterious ways. That's what makes this journey in his light so much fun. And highly educational. If we listen to the quiet in order to see what God has to say pray.



 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
Truth Talk says;

Jesus speaking to His disciples in the introduction to the beatitudes say's; Love your enemies and be "perfect" or "complete, mature, all grown up", as your Heavenly Father is perfect. Jesus is not telling His disciples to strive for "Sinless Perfectionism", no instead he is telling His disciples to be complete and mature in Christ.

"Sinless Perfectionist", love to focus on this verse and thereby misapply God's word to our life. "Be perfect, (mature), therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
Matthew5:47,48

47) And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48) Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Biblical definition of the word, "perfect"

teleios: having reached its end, i.e. complete, by ext. perfect

Original Word: τέλειος, α, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: teleios
Phonetic Spelling: (tel'-i-os)
Short Definition: perfect, full-grown
Definition: perfect, (a) complete in all its parts, (b) full grown, of full age, (c) specially of the completeness of Christian character.

Gen. 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,( reject the command( then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Do you believe this is true today? Must we reject God's instructions in order "see" the Truth?

Was the Lifestyle of the Christ an example of the perfect human being? Or did He live a life of observing worthless Jewish traditions?

Do you believe Jesus teaches that "be ye perfect" means to reject any of His Fathers Commandments?

John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

What Word's of God did He give us?

Matt. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Can you show me where the Father's Will was for us to reject His instructions? His Sabbaths?

Shouldn't God's Word be the guide to our feet, and not religious man?
Intriguing to me that for someone who espouses perfection that you ignore correction. Yet you want to correct everyone else. This behavior alone tells me about your theology.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Intriguing to me that for someone who espouses perfection that you ignore correction. Yet you want to correct everyone else. This behavior alone tells me about your theology.
And possibly his motivarion?
 
Aug 16, 2018
137
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Sometimes our tears are prayers too.
God is awesome. And he can be anywhere, inspiring anyone. Just relax. Don't look for it. Just let it come. Judge not lest I be judged. Pray for others what I wish in grace and beauty and peace for myself.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Oo

i am not sure why people keep talking to you

The law demanded perfection,

Anyone who did not meet that condition was cursed. Moses stated it, paul repeated it, and james confirmed it!

Jesus told us to be perfect, or strive to meet that condition, he never said we could, or we would be punching shed if we did not,

If you think you can be perfect, you have more problems than i can help you with.
As I said and you completely ignored, Yes, the curse of the Law is death. If I steal from someone I am guilty and will die for that sin, unless the penalty is removed by a power greater than me. If I rely on the animal sacrifices and Levitical Priesthood "work's of the Law" for the removal of that penalty, as did the Pharisees, then the Blood the Christ shed for me is in vain. I am obligated to keep all the Law because the blood of animals does not remove sins.

But EG, I have already sinned. I am already guilty. I can live the rest of my life in complete obedience, and it means nothing because I am already guilty and condemned to death. I am truly cursed because I reject the only Blood which can remove my guilt.

In your religion, is this part of God's Commandments?

Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
Truth Talk says;

Jesus speaking to His disciples in the introduction to the beatitudes say's; Love your enemies and be "perfect" or "complete, mature, all grown up", as your Heavenly Father is perfect. Jesus is not telling His disciples to strive for "Sinless Perfectionism", no instead he is telling His disciples to be complete and mature in Christ.

"Sinless Perfectionist", love to focus on this verse and thereby misapply God's word to our life. "Be perfect, (mature), therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
Matthew5:47,48

47) And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48) Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Biblical definition of the word, "perfect"

teleios: having reached its end, i.e. complete, by ext. perfect

Original Word: τέλειος, α, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: teleios
Phonetic Spelling: (tel'-i-os)
Short Definition: perfect, full-grown
Definition: perfect, (a) complete in all its parts, (b) full grown, of full age, (c) specially of the completeness of Christian character.

Gen. 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,( reject the command( then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Do you believe this is true today? Must we reject God's instructions in order "see" the Truth?

Was the Lifestyle of the Christ an example of the perfect human being? Or did He live a life of observing worthless Jewish traditions?

Do you believe Jesus teaches that "be ye perfect" means to reject any of His Fathers Commandments?

John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

What Word's of God did He give us?

Matt. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Can you show me where the Father's Will was for us to reject His instructions? His Sabbaths?

Shouldn't God's Word be the guide to our feet, and not religious man?
Your gospel is a disaster of a train wreck; You have missed the Good News by a mile and your interpretation of the bible is the same as were the pharisee's. Trying to save yourself through "Law Keeping", repent and enter God's eternal rest.

This is God's plan of salvation, not man's; repent and be saved.

John3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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Is it the Law that said: "Be ye perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect". Or the Christ you claim to honor?

I think you take the "cursed" verse out of context. Was Abraham "Cursed" when he followed the instructions of the "Word which became Flesh"?

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Are we not to have the "Faith of Abraham"?

Luke 1:
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
7 And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years.

Was Zechariahs Cursed?

13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.

Didn't Zechariahs have the faith of Abraham as well?

But what of those preachers who "Transgressed God's Commandments" by their own religious traditions?

Matt. 23:
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Clearly you have been misinformed about God's "Curse".

I am keeping on topic.
You’re all over the place here.

Abraham wasn’t given the Law. He was blessed for his faith not his obedience. His obedience revealed his faith.

But the reason people are cursed is because they fail in their observance to the Law. Because if you live by the Law and fail in any one part you are held accountable to it all.

Jesus became a curse for us by making Himself accountable for it. When we try to live by the Law we are making ourselves liable according to our observance.

It is only through freedom in Christ can we truly from the heart follow His instructions. Because until we are free everything we do is for salvation, for acceptance, for blessing, etc.

This is the problem with self-righteousness. The stumbling stone. The Rock of offense. But at one point you come face to face with your inability. You are convicted. So that God might have mercy on you.

Once we are free in Christ everything changes. We are lead by the Lord directly. And we love because we have been loved.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but TO BRING SALVATION to those who are WAITING for him.


Romans 8:24-25 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? But IF WE HOPE FOR WHAT WE DO NOT HAVE YET we wait for it patiently.


2 Corinthians 4:18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For WHAT IS SEEN IS TEMPORARY, but WHAT IS UNSEEN IS ETERNAL.


THERE ARE SOME ON THIS FORUM WHO CLAIM TO HAVE ALREADY POSSESSED ETERNAL SALVATION. DO THEY NO LONGER WAIT FOR THE LORD TO BRING THEM SALVATION SINCE THEY ALREADY POSSESS IT? ARE THEY NOT GOING TO FACE JUDGMENT ANYMORE?


Philippians 3:12-16 NOT that I have already OBTAINED all this, or have ALREADY BEEN MADE PERFECT, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward THE GOAL to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are MATURE should take such a view of things. And if on some point YOU THINK DIFFERENTLY, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have ALREADY ATTAINED.


1 Peter 1:9 for you are receiving THE GOAL OF YOUR FAITH, the SALVATION of your souls.



SALVATION IS THE GOAL OF THOSE WHO ARE WAITING FOR HIM, THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST OF WHICH HE IS THE SAVIOR.


OSAS IS A FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES THE WORD OF GOD.


Mark 7:6-13 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “YOU HAVE A FINE WAY OF SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDS OF GOD in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then YOU NO LONGER LET HIM DO ANYTHING for his father or mother. THUS YOU NULLIFY THE WORD OF GOD by your tradition that you have handed down. AND YOU DO MANY THINGS LIKE THAT.”



JESUS SAID;


“If you love me, you will obey what I command.” john 14:15



…” If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”matthew 19:17



“ Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.” john 14:21-24



THIS FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINE TEACHES THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD IS JUST A WORK THAT MAN CAN DO BUT HAVE NO PART, NEITHER ESSENTIAL NOR NECESSARY FOR SALVATION WHICH CONTRADICTS THE FF:


Hebrews 5:7-9 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM.


A QUOTE FROM ElAmor’s POST


2 John 1:4-11 It has given me great joy to find some of your children WALKING IN THE TRUTH, just as the Father COMMANDED US. And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had FROM THE BEGINNING. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE. Many DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as COMING IN THE FLESH, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the DECEIVER and the ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who RUNS AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE in the TEACHING OF CHRIST does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him SHARES IN HIS WICKED WORK.

Who are those RUNNING AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST?

They are those who CLAIM SALVATION is by Faith ALONE and ONCE SAVED they are ALWAYS SAVED therefore rejecting God’s Laws and commands which are in fact God’s own words. says that even obedience to God cannot save anyone because they are works and Faith ALONE saves.

Who then is the deceiver and the ANTICHRIST?

They are those who do not continue in the teaching about WALKING IN LOVE which is WALKING IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. Who do not acknowledge Jesus as coming in the flesh by the mere fact that they reject the LAW that prophesied about Jesus as coming in the flesh.

1 John 2:1-6 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. THE MAN WHO SAYS, “I KNOW HIM,” BUT DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.””””””””




WE ARE TO WORK OUT OUR OWN SALVATION NOT AS INDIVIDUALS WORKING FOR HIS OWN SALVATION BUT AS ONE BODY IN CHRIST(eph 4:1-16) WORKING AS GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANTS OF GOD(mat 25:14-30) WHO ARE LIVING ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT AND NOT ACCORDING TO THE SINFUL NATURE.(rom 8:1-17) WE HONOR AND GLORIFY GOD BY THESE WORKS OF LOVE, FAITH AND OBEDIENCE THAT BEARS GOOD FRUITS THAT WILL LAST..(john 15:6-17)


Luke 3:9 the ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”



1 Peter 1:3-7 Praise to God for a living hope Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a LIVING HOPE through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade—kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the SALVATION THAT IS READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME. In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be PROVED GENUINE and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.



2 Peter 1:5-11 For this very reason, make every effort to ADD TO YOUR FAITH goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being INEFFECTIVE and UNPRODUCTIVE in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and BLIND, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his PAST SINS. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.


Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; OBEY IT AND REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.


Galatians 6:7-8 DO NOT BE DECEIVED, GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.


John 7:17-18 If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from

God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.


Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?


James 4:17 Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.


“DEAD FAITH CANNOT SAVE” ))james 2:14-26)



“LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR” rom 3:4
I hope you get saved before you have to give an account for your life.