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Dec 12, 2013
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This is simply an untruth according to the Bible.
More proof that you just whip your belief system out of a hat......

PAUL said clearly that when it came to the LAW he was BLAMELESS......man.......you workers for, lawyers, Pharisees and Cainologists really love to sweep truth under the table to support a doctrine the bible does not espouse....
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,969
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None.. I had my Tequila kitty put to sleep in March of 2016.. Why??
No, I understand, and you fill your posts because you miss her or him. Here is a special Tabby Cat with a LOUD PURR MOTOR, just for you:

 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
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AMEN.....I blocked his ignorance along time ago...HE flat denies that Jesus became a curse for us when he hung on the tree and was temporarily forsaken by the Father as found in Galatians and then pushes Catholic dogma like a street organ player with a dancing monkey for coin in Calcutta.....
CAN YOU PROVIDE SCRIPTURES THAT SAYS JESUS WAS “CURSED" ASIDE FROM PAUL’S? I DON’T MEAN THAT HE HIMSELF CALLED JESUS “CURSED" BUT ONLY THOSE WHO TEACH A GOSPEL OF ANOTHER KIND WHICH IS NO GOSPEL AT ALL.


Galatians 1:8-9 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!


WHATEVER THE LAW SAYS IT SAYS TO THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW.(rom 3:19). IT WAS CREATED BY GOD FOR MAN AND NOT FOR HIMSELF.


1 Timothy 1:9-11 We also know that LAW IS MADE NOT FOR THE RIGHTEOUS but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and LIARS and perjurers—and for whatever else is CONTRARY TO THE SOUND DOCTRINE that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.


OUR LORD DID NOT CONSIDER HIMSELF UNDER THE LAW WHEN HE SAID;


John 15:25 But this is to fulfill what is written in THEIR Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’


THE CURSE OF THE LAW IS “DEATH".


1 Corinthians 15:55-57 “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.


“BY BECOMING A CURSE FOR US" MEANS “ BY DYING FOR US" SINCE THE CURSE OF THE LAW IS “DEATH”, AND THE GOSPEL CLEARLY SAYS THAT CHRIST DIED FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS(JUSTIFICATION).


NOWHERE IN THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST TELLS US THAT “HE WAS CURSED” FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS.


JESUS IS THE “WORD THAT BECAME FLESH" AND THAT WORD IS GOD.(john 1:1-3 & 14) GOD IS THE SUPREME BEING AND AUTHORITY, THE ALMIGHTY LIVING GOD, THE CREATOR, LAW GIVER AND THE JUDGE(james 4:12) AND NO ONE CAN JUDGE OR CURSE HIM OR CALL HIM “CURSED".


Galatians 3:10,13 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who DOES NOT CONTINUE TO DO everything written in the Book of the Law.”


“Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law BY BECOMING A CURSE FOR US, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”




1 Corinthians 2:10-16 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man’s judgment: “For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.


PAUL CLEARLY DESCRIBED WHO ARE THOSE HE CONSIDERED “CURSED”;


Galatians 3:10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”


UNDERSTANDING THE ABOVE VERSE WILL BRING US TO THE CORRECT UNDERSTANDING OF THE FF: VERSE;


Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”


WE SHOULD ALL KNOW THAT THE LORD JESUS IS THE “WORD THAT BECAME FLESH" AND ACCORDING TO JOHN “THE WORD IS GOD". (john 1:1-3 & 14)


GOD IS THE SUPREME BEING AND AUTHORITY WHO CREATED THE LAW FOR MAN AND NOT FOR HIMSELF SO WHAT IS MAN TO CALL HIM “CURSED"?


WHO AMONG BELIEVERS WOULD QUESTION GOD’S VULNERABILITY TO CURSES OR WHATEVER EVIL ACTS AGAINST HIM? ...PETER EXPLAINS IT BETTER;


2 Peter 3:14-18 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are HARD TO UNDERSTAND, which IGNORANT and UNSTABLE people DISTORT, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the ERROR of lawless men and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.



1 Timothy 6:3-5 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.


isaiah 5:20-24 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for THEY HAVE REJECTED THE LAW OF THE LORD ALMIGHTY AND SPURNED THE WORD OF THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL.


Hebrews 10:26-29 If we DELIBERATELY keep on sinning after we have received the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has TRAMPLED THE SON OF GOD under foot, who has TREATED AS AN UNHOLY THING the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has INSULTED THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?


.. GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED…


...LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR…


John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and THE TRUTH and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
AMEN.....I blocked his ignorance along time ago...HE flat denies that Jesus became a curse for us when he hung on the tree and was temporarily forsaken by the Father as found in Galatians and then pushes Catholic dogma like a street organ player with a dancing monkey for coin in Calcutta.....
19Go ye therefore, and TEACH ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


OUR LORD JESUS BEFORE GOING BACK TO THE FATHER INSTRUCTED HIS DISCIPLES TO TEACH OBEDIENCE UNTO ALL NATIONS.


IF ANYONE WOULD TEACH THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WORD, TEACHINGS, LAWS AND COMMANDS, IS NOT NECESSARY OR PART OF SALVATION, DOES HE NOT TEACH CONTRARY TO THE LORD’S TEACHINGS?


WHEN THE LORD SAID THAT “IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS”, AND SOMEONE ELSE WOULD SAY THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD WILL NOT SAVE ANYONE BECAUSE “FAITH ALONE SAVES”. IS IT NOT A CLEAR REJECTION, NULLIFICATION, DISRESPECT, DISOBEDIENCE, UNBELIEF AND MOCKERY OF GOD’S WORD?


15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16They profess that they know God; BUT IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being ABOMINABLE, and DISOBEDIENT and unto every good work REPROBATE.


4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, TURNING THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO (A LICENSE FOR) LASCIVIOUSNESS, and DENYING the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.


...Teaching for doctrines the commandments of men….Full well ye reject the commandment of God... making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.(mark 7:6-13)


...because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.(isaiah 5:20-24)


...Be not deceived; GÒD IS NOT MOCKED: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. 10As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.(galatians 6:7-10)


32who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are WORTHY OF DEATH, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things COMETH THE WRATH OF .GOD ÙPON THE CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE


MAN GOT SEPARATED FROM GOD BECAUSE OF THE SIN OF DISOBEDIENCE WHEN MAN WAS DECEIVED BY THE SERPENT WHO SAID THAT “...Ye shall not surely die.”(genesis 3:4)


DÈCEIVERS OF THIS AGE SAYS THE SAME THING;


“YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE (PERIßH / BE CONDEMNED). ONCE YOU'RE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS ßAVED. JUST HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS (OF RIGHTEOUSNESS / ÒBEDIENCE) AND YOU WILL POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE THE MOMENT YOU BELIEVE.



IS IT NOT APPOINTED FOR MEN TO DIE ONCE AND FACE JUDGMENT AFTER? (hebrews 9:27-28)


11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw THE DEAD, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOÙND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.


“FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD”


JESUS HAS NOT FOUND YOUR WORKS COMPLETE IN THE SIGHT OF GOD. REMEMBER THEREFORE WHÀT YOU HEARD AND RECEIVED. OBEY IT, AND REPENT.(revelations 3:1-6)



47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48HE THAT REJECTETH ME, and RECEIVETH NOT MY WORDS, hath one that judgeth him: THE WORD THAT I HAVE SPOKEN, THE SAME SHALL. JUDGE HIM IN THE LAST DAY. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I KNOW THAT HIS COMMANDMENT IS LIFE EVERLASTING: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES THAT PROMOTES DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD AND REJECTS AND NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS AND COMMANDS. (mark 7:6-13, Isaiah 5:20-24)

SO DO NOT LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU...FOR THE WRATH OF GOD COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.(Ephesians 5:6)

OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM (Hebrews 5:8-9) SAID:

Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD ; OBEY IT and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

JESUS HAVE NOT FOUND THEIR DEEDS "COMPLETE" IN THE EYES OF GOD.

THEN HE TOLD THEM TO "OBEY" WHAT THEY RECEIVED AND HEARD AND TO REPENT.

JESUS WAS SPEAKING HERE TO ONE OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES AND WE KNOW THAT THE "CHURCH" IS THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE. (eph 5:23)

WHY WILL HE SAY THAT THEIR DEEDS ARE NOT COMPLETE IF WORKS ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION AND THAT "FAITH ALONE" SAVES?

WHY WOULD JESUS COMMAND THEM TO OBEY AND REPENT IF IT
IS NO LONGER NECESSARY SINCE THEY ARE SAVED ETERNALLY? (OSAS)

IS JESUS IGNORANT OF THIS DOCTRINE OR IS IT CONTRARY TO HIS TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS AND THEREFORE ARE JUST FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS?

JESUS AND HIS FATHER REQUIRE SOME WORKS TO BE COMPLETED AND ASKED FOR OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE.

Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Malachi 3:14 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty?

GOD REQUIRES OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE IN OUR PART OTHERWISE HIS WRATH WILL COME ON THOSE WHO ARE "DISOBEDIENT".(eph 5:6 )

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

DO NOT BE DECEIVED... GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED...WE REAP WHAT WE SOW...(Galatians 6:7-10)

NOW IF FAITH ALONE SAVES AND ONCE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED, DOES THIS PASSAGE BELOW CONTRADICT THESE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE OR DO YOU REJECT IT OR TWIST IT TO MEAN SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD FIT YOUR DOCTRINE?

Matthew 24:9-14 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time MANY WILL TURN AWAY FROM THE FAITH and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, THE LOVE OF MOST WILL GROW COLD, but HE WHO STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED . And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

MANY WHO HAS FAITH WILL TURN AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH.

ARE THEY STILL SAVED AFTER TURNING AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH(ALONE)?

DO YOU MOCK GOD AND REJECT THESE VERSES BELOW?

Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature WILL REAP DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD..

"LET GOD BE TRUE..." (Romans 3:3-4)
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
More proof that you just whip your belief system out of a hat......

PAUL said clearly that when it came to the LAW he was BLAMELESS......man.......you workers for, lawyers, Pharisees and Cainologists really love to sweep truth under the table to support a doctrine the bible does not espouse....
Paul said he was, “in regard to the law, a Pharisee;”

Philippians 3:5-7, “Having been circumcised on the eighth day, I am of the nation of Israel, from the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews. As far as the Law is concerned, I was a Pharisee. As for my zeal, I was a persecutor of the church. As far as righteousness in the Law is concerned, I was blameless. But whatever things were assets to me, these I now consider a loss for the sake of the Messiah.”



“in regard to the law, a Pharisee;” this meant he honored the tradition of the elders...The Pharisees made thousands of man made laws, they added over 600 man made rules to the Sabbath that are not a part of YHWH’s Law… This is the “heavy burden”



Mat 23:4, “For they (the pharisees not YHWH) bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders, but with their finger they do not wish to move them.”

Mark 7:1-9, “And the Pharisees and some of the scribes assembled to Him, having come from Yerushalayim. And seeing some of His taught ones eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. For the Pharisees, and all the Yehuḏim, do not eat unless they wash their hands thoroughly, holding fast the tradition of the elders, and coming from the market-place, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions which they have received and hold fast – the washing of cups and utensils and copper vessels and couches. Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your taught ones not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? And He answering, said to them, “Well did Yeshayahu prophesy concerning you hypocrites, as it has been written, ‘This people respect Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commands of men.’ Forsaking the command of YHWH, you hold fast the tradition of men. And He said to them, “Well do you set aside the command of YHWH, in order to guard your tradition.”



Also how was Paul “blameless in the Law” if he says he was a sinner:



1 Timothy 1:15, “Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners--of whom I am the worst.”



Because as a Pharisee he kept the “tradition of the elders” (Talmud) he did not follow the Law of YHWH, one can not follow another Law that causes one to Mark 7:9, “...Well do you set aside the command of YHWH, in order to guard your tradition.”



We also have this history about him before he changed:



Acts 7:54-60,54 And hearing this they were cut to the hearts and gnashed the teeth at him."55 But he, being filled with the Set-apart Spirit, looked steadily into the heaven and saw the esteem of Elohim, and יהושע standing at the right hand of Elohim,"56 and he said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Aḏam standing at the right hand of Elohim!” Psa 110:1."57 And crying out with a loud voice, they stopped their ears, and rushed upon him with one mind,"58 and threw him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their garments at the feet of a young man named Sha’ul."59 And they were stoning Stephanos as he was calling and saying, “Master יהושע, receive my spirit.”"60 And kneeling down he cried out with a loud voice, “Master, do not hold this sin against them.” And having said this, he fell asleep."



Acts 8:1-4,1 And Sha’ul was giving approval to his death. And on that day there was a great persecution against the assembly which was at Yerushalayim, and they were all scattered throughout the countries of Yehuḏah and Shomeron, except the emissaries."2 And dedicated men buried Stephanos, and made great lamentation over him."3 But Sha’ul was ravaging the assembly, entering every house, and dragging off men and women, putting them in prison."4 Then those who had been scattered went everywhere bringing the Good News: the Word!"



Acts 9:1-2,1 But Sha’ul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Master, having come to the high priest,"2 asked from him letters to the congregations of Dammeseq, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, to bring them bound to Yerushalayim."



Fact is he was a Pharisee at one time and honored Pharisee law...
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
Paul said he was, “in regard to the law, a Pharisee;”

Philippians 3:5-7, “Having been circumcised on the eighth day, I am of the nation of Israel, from the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews. As far as the Law is concerned, I was a Pharisee. As for my zeal, I was a persecutor of the church. As far as righteousness in the Law is concerned, I was blameless. But whatever things were assets to me, these I now consider a loss for the sake of the Messiah.”



“in regard to the law, a Pharisee;” this meant he honored the tradition of the elders...The Pharisees made thousands of man made laws, they added over 600 man made rules to the Sabbath that are not a part of YHWH’s Law… This is the “heavy burden”



Mat 23:4, “For they (the pharisees not YHWH) bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders, but with their finger they do not wish to move them.”

Mark 7:1-9, “And the Pharisees and some of the scribes assembled to Him, having come from Yerushalayim. And seeing some of His taught ones eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. For the Pharisees, and all the Yehuḏim, do not eat unless they wash their hands thoroughly, holding fast the tradition of the elders, and coming from the market-place, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions which they have received and hold fast – the washing of cups and utensils and copper vessels and couches. Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your taught ones not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? And He answering, said to them, “Well did Yeshayahu prophesy concerning you hypocrites, as it has been written, ‘This people respect Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commands of men.’ Forsaking the command of YHWH, you hold fast the tradition of men. And He said to them, “Well do you set aside the command of YHWH, in order to guard your tradition.”



Also how was Paul “blameless in the Law” if he says he was a sinner:



1 Timothy 1:15, “Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners--of whom I am the worst.”



Because as a Pharisee he kept the “tradition of the elders” (Talmud) he did not follow the Law of YHWH, one can not follow another Law that causes one to Mark 7:9, “...Well do you set aside the command of YHWH, in order to guard your tradition.”



We also have this history about him before he changed:



Acts 7:54-60,54 And hearing this they were cut to the hearts and gnashed the teeth at him."55 But he, being filled with the Set-apart Spirit, looked steadily into the heaven and saw the esteem of Elohim, and יהושע standing at the right hand of Elohim,"56 and he said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Aḏam standing at the right hand of Elohim!” Psa 110:1."57 And crying out with a loud voice, they stopped their ears, and rushed upon him with one mind,"58 and threw him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their garments at the feet of a young man named Sha’ul."59 And they were stoning Stephanos as he was calling and saying, “Master יהושע, receive my spirit.”"60 And kneeling down he cried out with a loud voice, “Master, do not hold this sin against them.” And having said this, he fell asleep."



Acts 8:1-4,1 And Sha’ul was giving approval to his death. And on that day there was a great persecution against the assembly which was at Yerushalayim, and they were all scattered throughout the countries of Yehuḏah and Shomeron, except the emissaries."2 And dedicated men buried Stephanos, and made great lamentation over him."3 But Sha’ul was ravaging the assembly, entering every house, and dragging off men and women, putting them in prison."4 Then those who had been scattered went everywhere bringing the Good News: the Word!"



Acts 9:1-2,1 But Sha’ul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Master, having come to the high priest,"2 asked from him letters to the congregations of Dammeseq, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, to bring them bound to Yerushalayim."



Fact is he was a Pharisee at one time and honored Pharisee law...
Interesting thoughts, but being blameless to the Law is not the same thing as being sinless.

Other people in Scripture were called, "Blameless." But only ONE was sinless.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
Interesting thoughts, but being blameless to the Law is not the same thing as being sinless.

Other people in Scripture were called, "Blameless." But only ONE was sinless.
Yeah I agree with this thought, because one could have mercy through repentance and mercy from Yah.

But I do want to re-iterate that when Paul was a Pharisee he was not following Yah or repenting, but was doing the Pharisee's set of man made rules. they literally have 23 vols/books of man made laws and reasoning that are basically fake "loop holes" and "heavy burdens"

In the Talmud it literally says to "wash your left hand, then your right, then both, then thank "the Name" for commanding this ritual"

Except... it is nowhere in the Scripture, it;s man made and was enforced by the main stream religion of Yahshua's day, this is the exact "rule" the pharisees accuse Yahshua;s disciple of not following and Yahshua said they break Yah;s Law for man made ones...
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
Yeah I agree with this thought, because one could have mercy through repentance and mercy from Yah.

But I do want to re-iterate that when Paul was a Pharisee he was not following Yah or repenting, but was doing the Pharisee's set of man made rules. they literally have 23 vols/books of man made laws and reasoning that are basically fake "loop holes" and "heavy burdens"

In the Talmud it literally says to "wash your left hand, then your right, then both, then thank "the Name" for commanding this ritual"

Except... it is nowhere in the Scripture, it;s man made and was enforced by the main stream religion of Yahshua's day, this is the exact "rule" the pharisees accuse Yahshua;s disciple of not following and Yahshua said they break Yah;s Law for man made ones...
Yes I agree the Pharisees also followed and taught additional traditions. Yet, this doesn't mean they didn't also follow the 10 commandments. I'm sure in their 23 volumes of books they mentioned the Big 10. Their traditions were actually their best effort to trying to follow the Big 10 and all the other commandments God gave in the OT. It wasn't their lack of effort that was the issue. It was that they wouldn't turn to Him.

John 5:39You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

And here's the humdinger.

45Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. 46For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. 47But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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Yes I agree the Pharisees also followed and taught additional traditions. Yet, this doesn't mean they didn't also follow the 10 commandments. I'm sure in their 23 volumes of books they mentioned the Big 10. Their traditions were actually their best effort to trying to follow the Big 10 and all the other commandments God gave in the OT. It wasn't their lack of effort that was the issue. It was that they wouldn't turn to Him.

John 5:39You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

And here's the humdinger.

45Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. 46For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. 47But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”
Yeah, so you have never read it huh... Not all the Pharisees were bad, but those that made the 23vols... it is in direct oppisition to Yah... a book to circumvernt Him...

Here is a taste:

Exodus 23:2, “Do not follow a crowd to do evil, nor bear witness in a strife so as to turn aside after many, to turn away from what is right.”

They take Exodus 23:2, "Do not follow the crowd in doing evil. When you give testimony in a lawsuit, do not pervert justice by siding with the crowd."

After Midrashic interpretation is applied, they come out with : "follow the crowd." (After the majority must one incline - seen in above reading)

Thus even when one disagrees or knows something is wrong he must, "follow the crowd," or as the Talmud puts it in Baba Metzia 59b (above), "after the majority must one incline."

Deuteronomy 30:11-13, "For this Law which I command you this day is not hidden from you, nor is it beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask; Who will ascend up into heaven for us, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it? Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask; Who will cross the sea, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it?"

After Midrashic interpretation is applied, they come out with : "‘It is not in heaven.’4 What did he mean by this? — Said R. Jeremiah: That the Torah had already been given at Mount Sinai; we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice" (Baba Metzia 59b)

Deuteronomy 4:2, "You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor shall you take anything from it, so that you may keep the Laws of YHWH your Father which I command you."

The MEssiah said they "make the Law of YHWH of no effect through their tradtion" ..... He called them serpents.... They made "oaths" that certian things they could lie on but others they could not, so among themselves they could talk people out of their possession (ddevouring widows) because they justified lying... The say the MEssiah is "buring in hell" well thats the cleana version..soooo, NO I do not think for a second that they wanted to follow the 10 commandments...

Of course not every one of the mwere bad,

but knowing the facts....It crazy that you even think that. Cee look at what the Messiah said to them and actually look what their Talmud says...
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
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Yeah, so you have never read it huh... Not all the Pharisees were bad, but those that made the 23vols... it is in direct oppisition to Yah... a book to circumvernt Him...

Here is a taste:

Exodus 23:2, “Do not follow a crowd to do evil, nor bear witness in a strife so as to turn aside after many, to turn away from what is right.”

They take Exodus 23:2, "Do not follow the crowd in doing evil. When you give testimony in a lawsuit, do not pervert justice by siding with the crowd."

After Midrashic interpretation is applied, they come out with : "follow the crowd." (After the majority must one incline - seen in above reading)

Thus even when one disagrees or knows something is wrong he must, "follow the crowd," or as the Talmud puts it in Baba Metzia 59b (above), "after the majority must one incline."

Deuteronomy 30:11-13, "For this Law which I command you this day is not hidden from you, nor is it beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask; Who will ascend up into heaven for us, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it? Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask; Who will cross the sea, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it?"

After Midrashic interpretation is applied, they come out with : "‘It is not in heaven.’4 What did he mean by this? — Said R. Jeremiah: That the Torah had already been given at Mount Sinai; we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice" (Baba Metzia 59b)

Deuteronomy 4:2, "You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor shall you take anything from it, so that you may keep the Laws of YHWH your Father which I command you."

The MEssiah said they "make the Law of YHWH of no effect through their tradtion" ..... He called them serpents.... They made "oaths" that certian things they could lie on but others they could not, so among themselves they could talk people out of their possession (ddevouring widows) because they justified lying... The say the MEssiah is "buring in hell" well thats the cleana version..soooo, NO I do not think for a second that they wanted to follow the 10 commandments...

Of course not every one of the mwere bad,

but knowing the facts....It crazy that you even think that. Cee look at what the Messiah said to them and actually look what their Talmud says...
You make good points, but I’m sure you agree it’s easy to find things that agree with our statements.

Government studies are a perfect example of this.

Pharisees were considered the highest interpreters of the Law.

And Jesus also said to them you study the Scriptures, let’s not forget that too.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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You make good points, but I’m sure you agree it’s easy to find things that agree with our statements.

Government studies are a perfect example of this.
Without doubt everyone is bias, even if it's only 0.000001%, while I am not exempt from this I can say I would have never found the truth I have found if I chose comfort over truth. For the majority of my life I was taught and believed as a "average Christian" not knowing what the Scriptures actually say but knowing the saying about the Scriptures. You know I was given a piece of truth that disproved something I held dear and I sat and stared at a wall for 2 weeks in shock, then I decided I would find out if it was true or not. I slammed a few translations, a bible dictionary and a concordance on the table and studied for weeks on that one topic, that led tome studying and praying for truth for LITERALLY 4-10 a day for the next 2+ years, sometimes staying up for 3 days at a time. Since that time I dont do marathons but I do continually study and pray still, I dont settle for comfort over truth. I dont know everything but I seek Yah diligently.

Pharisees were considered the highest interpreters of the Law.
This is true and it is just as true that they were the highest perverters of the Law in their age...

And Jesus also said to them you study the Scriptures, let’s not forget that too.
He also said they reject His Father Law for their own... They could know every word, but if they chose another path it is of no use.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
Without doubt everyone is bias, even if it's only 0.000001%, while I am not exempt from this I can say I would have never found the truth I have found if I chose comfort over truth. For the majority of my life I was taught and believed as a "average Christian" not knowing what the Scriptures actually say but knowing the saying about the Scriptures. You know I was given a piece of truth that disproved something I held dear and I sat and stared at a wall for 2 weeks in shock, then I decided I would find out if it was true or not. I slammed a few translations, a bible dictionary and a concordance on the table and studied for weeks on that one topic, that led tome studying and praying for truth for LITERALLY 4-10 a day for the next 2+ years, sometimes staying up for 3 days at a time. Since that time I dont do marathons but I do continually study and pray still, I dont settle for comfort over truth. I dont know everything but I seek Yah diligently.



This is true and it is just as true that they were the highest perverters of the Law in their age...



He also said they reject His Father Law for their own... They could know every word, but if they chose another path it is of no use.
I also sought truth in my own life. Praying to understand things. I became a hermit with stacks of books, but then when I realized many of them taught different things with the same Scriptures, I went to Holy Spirit school.

Jesus rebuke was that they wouldn’t come to Him. Even declaring Moses would be their accuser. Because he wrote about Him.

Our hope is not in our observance of the Law. Nor in Moses. It is fully and completely in Jesus. He is the hope of glory.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Paul said he was, “in regard to the law, a Pharisee;”

Philippians 3:5-7, “Having been circumcised on the eighth day, I am of the nation of Israel, from the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews. As far as the Law is concerned, I was a Pharisee. As for my zeal, I was a persecutor of the church. As far as righteousness in the Law is concerned, I was blameless. But whatever things were assets to me, these I now consider a loss for the sake of the Messiah.”



“in regard to the law, a Pharisee;” this meant he honored the tradition of the elders...The Pharisees made thousands of man made laws, they added over 600 man made rules to the Sabbath that are not a part of YHWH’s Law… This is the “heavy burden”



Mat 23:4, “For they (the pharisees not YHWH) bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders, but with their finger they do not wish to move them.”

Mark 7:1-9, “And the Pharisees and some of the scribes assembled to Him, having come from Yerushalayim. And seeing some of His taught ones eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. For the Pharisees, and all the Yehuḏim, do not eat unless they wash their hands thoroughly, holding fast the tradition of the elders, and coming from the market-place, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions which they have received and hold fast – the washing of cups and utensils and copper vessels and couches. Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your taught ones not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? And He answering, said to them, “Well did Yeshayahu prophesy concerning you hypocrites, as it has been written, ‘This people respect Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commands of men.’ Forsaking the command of YHWH, you hold fast the tradition of men. And He said to them, “Well do you set aside the command of YHWH, in order to guard your tradition.”



Also how was Paul “blameless in the Law” if he says he was a sinner:



1 Timothy 1:15, “Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners--of whom I am the worst.”



Because as a Pharisee he kept the “tradition of the elders” (Talmud) he did not follow the Law of YHWH, one can not follow another Law that causes one to Mark 7:9, “...Well do you set aside the command of YHWH, in order to guard your tradition.”



We also have this history about him before he changed:



Acts 7:54-60,54 And hearing this they were cut to the hearts and gnashed the teeth at him."55 But he, being filled with the Set-apart Spirit, looked steadily into the heaven and saw the esteem of Elohim, and יהושע standing at the right hand of Elohim,"56 and he said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Aḏam standing at the right hand of Elohim!” Psa 110:1."57 And crying out with a loud voice, they stopped their ears, and rushed upon him with one mind,"58 and threw him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their garments at the feet of a young man named Sha’ul."59 And they were stoning Stephanos as he was calling and saying, “Master יהושע, receive my spirit.”"60 And kneeling down he cried out with a loud voice, “Master, do not hold this sin against them.” And having said this, he fell asleep."



Acts 8:1-4,1 And Sha’ul was giving approval to his death. And on that day there was a great persecution against the assembly which was at Yerushalayim, and they were all scattered throughout the countries of Yehuḏah and Shomeron, except the emissaries."2 And dedicated men buried Stephanos, and made great lamentation over him."3 But Sha’ul was ravaging the assembly, entering every house, and dragging off men and women, putting them in prison."4 Then those who had been scattered went everywhere bringing the Good News: the Word!"



Acts 9:1-2,1 But Sha’ul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Master, having come to the high priest,"2 asked from him letters to the congregations of Dammeseq, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, to bring them bound to Yerushalayim."



Fact is he was a Pharisee at one time and honored Pharisee law...
You can try ALL you want to change the context of the definite article "THE" as applied unto THE LAW...he is NOT TALKING traditions, he is under inspiration and speaking to THE LAW....

GET OVER IT and quit being so deceptive so as to support your HEBREW roots garbage

BLAMELESS OUTWARDLY which is what the LAW dealt with....obviously you don't even understand the very law you peddle and or do not keep!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Yes I agree the Pharisees also followed and taught additional traditions. Yet, this doesn't mean they didn't also follow the 10 commandments. I'm sure in their 23 volumes of books they mentioned the Big 10. Their traditions were actually their best effort to trying to follow the Big 10 and all the other commandments God gave in the OT. It wasn't their lack of effort that was the issue. It was that they wouldn't turn to Him.

John 5:39You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

And here's the humdinger.

45Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. 46For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. 47But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”
Paul was not talking traditions and or those things Jesus rebuked...he used the DEFINITE ARTICLE "THE" as applied unto the LAW and made NO mention of tradition......that is one of the biggest farces pushed by the legalistic Cainologists and modern day Hebrew roots Pharisees....He is not the only one to try and weep this under the table.......