Not By Works

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Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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That Jew and Gentile and sinners are at peace with each other and each are at peace with God by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. The scripture was posted because in my view you have built a wall between you and Christians, through your own theology. I understand you do not agree with my point of view.

Ephesians2:16
and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.​

You are right, I do not agree with your theology. I don't think God's Word is subject to consensus among religious men.

But Thanks for the thoughtful discussion and tone. I appreciate it.

Have a good rest of the Day TT :)
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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I thought there was a politucal payoff to people to have them vote for the life of barabus?
The political payoff was they got rid of Jesus. Why did the crowd choose Barabbas?

John 18:38After he had said this, he went back outside to the Jews and told them, “I find no guilt in him. 39But you have a custom that I should release one man for you at the Passover. So do you want me to release to you the King of the Jews?” 40They cried out again, “Not this man, but Barabbas!” Now Barabbas was a robber.

This passage shows us they didn't want Jesus as their King.

John 19:6When the chief priests and the officers saw him, they cried out, “Crucify him, crucify him!” Pilate said to them, “Take him yourselves and crucify him, for I find no guilt in him.”

Notice it's not just the "Pharisees", that's incorrect. The Pharisees had positions of power, but it wasn't simply them.

7The Jews answered him, “We have a law, and according to that law he ought to die because he has made himself the Son of God.” 8When Pilate heard this statement, he was even more afraid.

Pilate is straight freaking out now. Because he is believing more and more in who Jesus is, but the Jews wanted to kill Him because they refused Him as King and the Son of God. They then used the Law to crucify Him.

John 19:12From then on Pilate sought to release him, but the Jews cried out, “If you release this man, you are not Caesar’s friend. Everyone who makes himself a king opposes Caesar.” 13So when Pilate heard these words, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judgment seat at a place called The Stone Pavement, and in Aramaic Gabbatha. 14Now it was the day of Preparation of the Passover. It was about the sixth hour. He said to the Jews, “Behold your King!” 15They cried out, “Away with him, away with him, crucify him!” Pilate said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar.” 16So he delivered him over to them to be crucified.
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
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The political payoff was they got rid of Jesus. Why did the crowd choose Barabbas?

John 18:38After he had said this, he went back outside to the Jews and told them, “I find no guilt in him. 39But you have a custom that I should release one man for you at the Passover. So do you want me to release to you the King of the Jews?” 40They cried out again, “Not this man, but Barabbas!” Now Barabbas was a robber.

This passage shows us they didn't want Jesus as their King.

John 19:6When the chief priests and the officers saw him, they cried out, “Crucify him, crucify him!” Pilate said to them, “Take him yourselves and crucify him, for I find no guilt in him.”

Notice it's not just the "Pharisees", that's incorrect. The Pharisees had positions of power, but it wasn't simply them.

7The Jews answered him, “We have a law, and according to that law he ought to die because he has made himself the Son of God.” 8When Pilate heard this statement, he was even more afraid.

Pilate is straight freaking out now. Because he is believing more and more in who Jesus is, but the Jews wanted to kill Him because they refused Him as King and the Son of God. They then used the Law to crucify Him.

John 19:12From then on Pilate sought to release him, but the Jews cried out, “If you release this man, you are not Caesar’s friend. Everyone who makes himself a king opposes Caesar.” 13So when Pilate heard these words, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judgment seat at a place called The Stone Pavement, and in Aramaic Gabbatha. 14Now it was the day of Preparation of the Passover. It was about the sixth hour. He said to the Jews, “Behold your King!” 15They cried out, “Away with him, away with him, crucify him!” Pilate said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar.” 16So he delivered him over to them to be crucified.
Yes..i meant the jewish people..didnt they get a payoff n the religious leaders had it in for Jesus from day 1...
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
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Yes..i meant the jewish people..didnt they get a payoff n the religious leaders had it in for Jesus from day 1...
I'm not sure Scripture reports a political payoff. What sort of payoff do you mean? I'm guessing you mean between Jews and Rome? They did use Pilate's fear of Ceasar to force his hand.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
You're tripping up again.

Read the Scripture again... Christ is the end of righteousness for those who BELIEVE.

So why does the Law still exist? It's for those who don't believe.

Your cherry picked Scripture doesn't mean the Law is still in effect for those who DO believe.
Jesus said the Law is for the sinner. Do you "believe" you are a sinner? Or have you convinced yourself you are perfect already?

1 Cor.15:
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Have you been convinced you are already there Cee? Have you found another way not written about in scriptures? And who is the Law for? The Corruptible, or the incorruptible? Was Paul not a believer?

Could this be why Jesus said: "
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

I think you are listening to the wrong voice Cee.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
Jesus said the Law is for the sinner. Do you "believe" you are a sinner? Or have you convinced yourself you are perfect already?

1 Cor.15:
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Have you been convinced you are already there Cee? Have you found another way not written about in scriptures? And who is the Law for? The Corruptible, or the incorruptible? Was Paul not a believer?

Could this be why Jesus said: "
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

I think you are listening to the wrong voice Cee.
I know you're listening to the wrong voice.

Rather than admit it, you say something like "have you convinced yourself you are perfect already?"

You think I'm the problem rather than your own logic.

I am not a sinner. I am righteous by the blood of Christ. That's what it means to submit to God's righteousness.

3For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

I'm not trying to be righteous. I am righteous in Christ. Maybe you should try it instead of cherry picking Scriptures.

But hey I'm sure you can establish your own righteousness by the Law. Because that worked for - no one.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
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The way you promote the Old Covenant over and above the New Covenant transgresses the work of the author of the New Covenant who is Christ himself.

The old covenant came by Moses while the new covenant came by Jesus Christ (John 1:17)
The old covenant was ended by Jesus Christ (Roman 10:4) while the new covenant was established by Jesus Christ (Heb 8:6)
The old covenant had many high priests (Heb. 7:23) while the new covenant has only one high priest (Jesus Christ) (Heb. 7:24-28)
In the old covenant priests (high priest) were sinners (Heb. 5:1-4) while in the new covenant the priest has no sin (Jesus Christ) (Heb. 7:26)
In the old, Moses and prophets were mediators while in the new covenant, Jesus Christ is the mediator
The old covenant needed offering for sin while in the new covenant, Jesus is the perfect sin offering
The old covenant is for Israelites only (Det 4: 7-8) while the new covenant is for all men (Luke 22:20)

God bless

http://www.christiantruthcenter.com/difference-between-the-old-covenant-and-the-new-covenant/

When someone clings to what Jesus ended, I cannot imagine Jesus saying to them, "Well done my good and faithful servant."
matthew 19
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

DO YOU REJECT THE LAW OF THE LORD ALMIGHTY AND SPURN THE WORD OF THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL?

20 Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter.

21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes
and clever in their own sight.

22 Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine
and champions at mixing drinks,
23 who acquit the guilty for a bribe,
but deny justice to the innocent.
24 Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw
and as dry grass sinks down in the flames,
so their roots will decay
and their flowers blow away like dust;
for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty
and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
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OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES THAT PROMOTES DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD AND REJECTS AND NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS AND COMMANDS. (mark 7:6-13, Isaiah 5:20-24)



SO DO NOT LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU...FOR THE WRATH OF GOD COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.(Ephesians 5:6)



OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM (Hebrews 5:8-9) SAID:



Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD ; OBEY IT and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.



JESUS HAVE NOT FOUND THEIR DEEDS "COMPLETE" IN THE EYES OF GOD.



THEN HE TOLD THEM TO "OBEY" WHAT THEY RECEIVED AND HEARD AND TO REPENT.



JESUS WAS SPEAKING HERE TO ONE OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES AND WE KNOW THAT THE "CHURCH" IS THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE. (eph 5:23)



WHY WILL HE SAY THAT THEIR DEEDS ARE NOT COMPLETE IF WORKS ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION AND THAT "FAITH ALONE" SAVES?



WHY WOULD JESUS COMMAND THEM TO OBEY AND REPENT IF IT
IS NO LONGER NECESSARY SINCE THEY ARE SAVED ETERNALLY? (OSAS)



IS JESUS IGNORANT OF THIS DOCTRINE OR IS IT CONTRARY TO HIS TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS AND THEREFORE ARE JUST FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS?



JESUS AND HIS FATHER REQUIRE SOME WORKS TO BE COMPLETED AND ASKED FOR OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE.



Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.



Malachi 3:14 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty?



GOD REQUIRES OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE IN OUR PART OTHERWISE HIS WRATH WILL COME ON THOSE WHO ARE "DISOBEDIENT".(eph 5:6 )



Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?



John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.



2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.



DO NOT BE DECEIVED... GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED...WE REAP WHAT WE SOW...(Galatians 6:7-10)



NOW IF FAITH ALONE SAVES AND ONCE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED, DOES THIS PASSAGE BELOW CONTRADICT THESE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE OR DO YOU REJECT IT OR TWIST IT TO MEAN SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD FIT YOUR DOCTRINE?



Matthew 24:9-14 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time MANY WILL TURN AWAY FROM THE FAITH and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, THE LOVE OF MOST WILL GROW COLD, but HE WHO STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED . And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.



MANY WHO HAS FAITH WILL TURN AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH.



ARE THEY STILL SAVED AFTER TURNING AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH(ALONE)?



DO YOU MOCK GOD AND REJECT THESE VERSES BELOW?



Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature WILL REAP DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.



James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD..

"LET GOD BE TRUE..." (Romans 3:3-4)
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
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48
19Go ye therefore, and TEACH ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

OUR LORD JESUS BEFORE GOING BACK TO THE FATHER INSTRUCTED HIS DISCIPLES TO TEACH OBEDIENCE UNTO ALL NATIONS.

IF ANYONE WOULD TEACH THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WORD, TEACHINGS, LAWS AND COMMANDS, IS NOT NECESSARY OR PART OF SALVATION, DOES HE NOT TEACH CONTRARY TO THE LORD’S TEACHINGS?

WHEN THE LORD SAID THAT “IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS”, AND SOMEONE ELSE WOULD SAY THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD WILL NOT SAVE ANYONE BECAUSE “FAITH ALONE SAVES”. IS IT NOT A CLEAR REJECTION, NULLIFICATION, DISRESPECT, DISOBEDIENCE, UNBELIEF AND MOCKERY OF GOD’S WORD?

15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16They profess that they know God; BUT IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being ABOMINABLE, and DISOBEDIENT and unto every good work REPROBATE.

4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, TURNING THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO (A LICENSE FOR) LASCIVIOUSNESS, and DENYING the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

...Teaching for doctrines the commandments of men….Full well ye reject the commandment of God... making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.(mark 7:6-13)

...because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.(isaiah 5:20-24)

...Be not deceived; GÒD IS NOT MOCKED: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. 10As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.(galatians 6:7-10)

32who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are WORTHY OF DEATH, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things COMETH THE WRATH OF .GOD ÙPON THE CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE

MAN GOT SEPARATED FROM GOD BECAUSE OF THE SIN OF DISOBEDIENCE WHEN MAN WAS DECEIVED BY THE SERPENT WHO SAID THAT “...Ye shall not surely die.”(genesis 3:4)

DÈCEIVERS OF THIS AGE SAYS THE SAME THING;

“YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE (PERIßH / BE CONDEMNED). ONCE YOU'RE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS ßAVED. JUST HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS (OF RIGHTEOUSNESS / ÒBEDIENCE) AND YOU WILL POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE THE MOMENT YOU BELIEVE.


IS IT NOT APPOINTED FOR MEN TO DIE ONCE AND FACE JUDGMENT AFTER? (hebrews 9:27-28)

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw THE DEAD, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOÙND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.

“FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD”

JESUS HAS NOT FOUND YOUR WORKS COMPLETE IN THE SIGHT OF GOD. REMEMBER THEREFORE WHÀT YOU HEARD AND RECEIVED. OBEY IT, AND REPENT.(revelations 3:1-6)


47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48HE THAT REJECTETH ME, and RECEIVETH NOT MY WORDS, hath one that judgeth him: THE WORD THAT I HAVE SPOKEN, THE SAME SHALL. JUDGE HIM IN THE LAST DAY. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I KNOW THAT HIS COMMANDMENT IS LIFE EVERLASTING: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
19Go ye therefore, and TEACH ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

OUR LORD JESUS BEFORE GOING BACK TO THE FATHER INSTRUCTED HIS DISCIPLES TO TEACH OBEDIENCE UNTO ALL NATIONS.

IF ANYONE WOULD TEACH THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WORD, TEACHINGS, LAWS AND COMMANDS, IS NOT NECESSARY OR PART OF SALVATION, DOES HE NOT TEACH CONTRARY TO THE LORD’S TEACHINGS?

WHEN THE LORD SAID THAT “IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS”, AND SOMEONE ELSE WOULD SAY THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD WILL NOT SAVE ANYONE BECAUSE “FAITH ALONE SAVES”. IS IT NOT A CLEAR REJECTION, NULLIFICATION, DISRESPECT, DISOBEDIENCE, UNBELIEF AND MOCKERY OF GOD’S WORD?

15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16They profess that they know God; BUT IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being ABOMINABLE, and DISOBEDIENT and unto every good work REPROBATE.

4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, TURNING THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO (A LICENSE FOR) LASCIVIOUSNESS, and DENYING the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

...Teaching for doctrines the commandments of men….Full well ye reject the commandment of God... making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.(mark 7:6-13)

...because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.(isaiah 5:20-24)

...Be not deceived; GÒD IS NOT MOCKED: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. 10As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.(galatians 6:7-10)

32who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are WORTHY OF DEATH, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things COMETH THE WRATH OF .GOD ÙPON THE CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE

MAN GOT SEPARATED FROM GOD BECAUSE OF THE SIN OF DISOBEDIENCE WHEN MAN WAS DECEIVED BY THE SERPENT WHO SAID THAT “...Ye shall not surely die.”(genesis 3:4)

DÈCEIVERS OF THIS AGE SAYS THE SAME THING;

“YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE (PERIßH / BE CONDEMNED). ONCE YOU'RE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS ßAVED. JUST HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS (OF RIGHTEOUSNESS / ÒBEDIENCE) AND YOU WILL POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE THE MOMENT YOU BELIEVE.


IS IT NOT APPOINTED FOR MEN TO DIE ONCE AND FACE JUDGMENT AFTER? (hebrews 9:27-28)

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw THE DEAD, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOÙND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.

“FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD”

JESUS HAS NOT FOUND YOUR WORKS COMPLETE IN THE SIGHT OF GOD. REMEMBER THEREFORE WHÀT YOU HEARD AND RECEIVED. OBEY IT, AND REPENT.(revelations 3:1-6)


47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48HE THAT REJECTETH ME, and RECEIVETH NOT MY WORDS, hath one that judgeth him: THE WORD THAT I HAVE SPOKEN, THE SAME SHALL. JUDGE HIM IN THE LAST DAY. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I KNOW THAT HIS COMMANDMENT IS LIFE EVERLASTING: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
Since by your own admission you're unsure if you're saved. And you need as many good works as possible. Just curious, do you feel continually posting Scriptures out of context in this forum increases your chances of being saved? Is that why you do it?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
I'm glad you asked how is this not true.

Because you're painting a picture that just isn't true.

They didn't know Jesus was God in the flesh. Even His disciples believed it slowly. This idea that everyone was expecting God to show up in human form is not the case. The wise man followed a star and celebrated Him as the Messiah. But far, far more people didn't have a clue.

They celebrated Him saying, Hosanna when He rode in on a young colt. They expected Him to take vengeance on their enemies and set himself up as the King. But when He didn't - THEY sentenced Him to die. THEY chose Barabbas not Jesus. THEY had no clue at all He was going to die. Even His disciples ran away. He surprised everyone - even the spiritual principalities.
I never said everyone was expecting God to show up. Those are your words. I'm saying that the Priests, the religious leaders of the people should have known, as did Zechariahs, and Simion, and Anna and the Wise men. But they didn't because they were "Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of men" and their foolish minds were darkened. And when God sent them Prophets to show them their error, the Priests, and religious leaders of the Jews killed them.

Many, who come in Christ's name, can't accept this because the very foundation of their religion hinges on the false teaching that the Pharisees were trying to earn Salvation by following God's Laws. And even in the face of volumes of scriptures that expose this insidious lie, you are still trying to preserve this false doctrine. You should step back and ask yourself why.

But far, far more people didn't have a clue.
This is why Jesus had to come back in the first place Cee.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel

Why were they lost? Because the Priest's, which were in charge of administering God's laws, were "teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men" and not from God. They were "placing heavy burdens on the backs of the people", They had "omitted" the weightier matter of the Law of God. It is all there in your Bible Cee, you just have to stop listening to all those other voices out there, and "Believe" in the Christ.

Most people's only access to the Word of God was through this Priesthood. This is why Jesus inspired it to be written:

Heb. 8:
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, (The Levite Priests who killed the Prophets that were sent to them) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts

For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

The end of an obsolete Priesthood replaced with a more perfect "ministry".
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
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I never said everyone was expecting God to show up. Those are your words. I'm saying that the Priests, the religious leaders of the people should have known, as did Zechariahs, and Simion, and Anna and the Wise men. But they didn't because they were "Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of men" and their foolish minds were darkened. And when God sent them Prophets to show them their error, the Priests, and religious leaders of the Jews killed them.

Many, who come in Christ's name, can't accept this because the very foundation of their religion hinges on the false teaching that the Pharisees were trying to earn Salvation by following God's Laws. And even in the face of volumes of scriptures that expose this insidious lie, you are still trying to preserve this false doctrine. You should step back and ask yourself why.



This is why Jesus had to come back in the first place Cee.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel

Why were they lost? Because the Priest's, which were in charge of administering God's laws, were "teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men" and not from God. They were "placing heavy burdens on the backs of the people", They had "omitted" the weightier matter of the Law of God. It is all there in your Bible Cee, you just have to stop listening to all those other voices out there, and "Believe" in the Christ.

Most people's only access to the Word of God was through this Priesthood. This is why Jesus inspired it to be written:

Heb. 8:
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, (The Levite Priests who killed the Prophets that were sent to them) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts

For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

The end of an obsolete Priesthood replaced with a more perfect "ministry".
Once again though you ignore the Scriptures that say Christ is the end of the Law. Not Christ is the revealing of how to follow the Law. But, hey man good luck with it. I hope you are able to do enough good works, but I know you won't. Because trying to live by the Law is falling from grace.

Going back under the Law is submitting to a yoke of slavery again.

Galatians 5:1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

What you're missing is that Christ didn't come to teach people about the Law, but to learn about Him. To know the Father. We now follow the Spirit. And it is the relationship/abiding/union with Him that transforms us to follow His ways.

I'd love to hear you explain how Galatians 5:1 fits within your belief system. Paul says here, at one point you were under slavery... don't go back under it... what was this slavery, how do we go back under it, and why do you keep stressing the Law when Paul stresses freedom in Christ?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Once again though you ignore the Scriptures that say Christ is the end of the Law. Not Christ is the revealing of how to follow the Law. But, hey man good luck with it. I hope you are able to do enough good works, but I know you won't. Because trying to live by the Law is falling from grace.

Going back under the Law is submitting to a yoke of slavery again.

Galatians 5:1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

What you're missing is that Christ didn't come to teach people about the Law, but to learn about Him. To know the Father. We now follow the Spirit. And it is the relationship/abiding/union with Him that transforms us to follow His ways.

I'd love to hear you explain how Galatians 5:1 fits within your belief system. Paul says here, at one point you were under slavery... don't go back under it... what was this slavery, how do we go back under it, and why do you keep stressing the Law when Paul stresses freedom in Christ?
If you continue to preach the falsehood that the Pharisees were trying to earn Salvation by following God's Laws, even after it has been shown a false teaching by the very Word's of the Christ you claim to serve? You are not "learning from Him". At least not the Jesus of the Bible.

But like He taught.

Luke 16:
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Deception is a Yoke slavery, death is a Yoke of slavery, But Paul called God's Law spiritual, Holy, Just and Good.

At least this is what the Scripture teaches.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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If you continue to preach the falsehood that the Pharisees were trying to earn Salvation by following God's Laws, even after it has been shown a false teaching by the very Word's of the Christ you claim to serve? You are not "learning from Him". At least not the Jesus of the Bible.

But like He taught.

Luke 16:
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Deception is a Yoke slavery, death is a Yoke of slavery, But Paul called God's Law spiritual, Holy, Just and Good.

At least this is what the Scripture teaches.
Let the reader be able to discern for himself:

John 5:39You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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Since by your own admission you're unsure if you're saved. And you need as many good works as possible. Just curious, do you feel continually posting Scriptures out of context in this forum increases your chances of being saved? Is that why you do it?
4 This, then, is how you ought to regard us: as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed. 2 Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. 3 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4 My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.
1 corinthians 4

6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other. 7 For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?

john 7:16-19
16 Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me.17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.18 Whoever speaks on their own does so to gain personal glory, but he who seeks the glory of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him. 19 Has not Moses given you the law? Yet not one of you keeps the law. Why are you trying to kill me?”

1 corinthians 13
13 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

mark 8:34-38
The Way of the Cross
34 Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 35 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it. 36 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? 37 Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? 38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comesin his Father’s glory with the holy angels.”
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
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1 corinthians 4
20 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power.

james 2
26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
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4 This, then, is how you ought to regard us: as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed. 2 Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. 3 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4 My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.
1 corinthians 4

6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other. 7 For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?

john 7:16-19
16 Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me.17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.18 Whoever speaks on their own does so to gain personal glory, but he who seeks the glory of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him. 19 Has not Moses given you the law? Yet not one of you keeps the law. Why are you trying to kill me?”

1 corinthians 13
13 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

mark 8:34-38
The Way of the Cross
34 Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 35 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it. 36 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? 37 Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? 38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comesin his Father’s glory with the holy angels.”
I'll be ignoring you now because I don't consider just posting Scriptures a fruitful discussion. I have a Bible already.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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I'll be ignoring you now because I don't consider this a fruitful discussion.
hebrews 4
12 For the word of God is alive and active.Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight.Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

john 14
23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25 “All this I have spoken while still with you.26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father,for the Father is greater than I. 29 I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. 30 I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me,31 but he comes so that the world may learn that I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me.

“Come now; let us leave.

john 12
44 Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn themat the last day. 49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”