Not By Works

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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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No I don't. But you are twisting the words, "Law, Commands, and Instructions." Using them interchangeably. And ignoring Scripture that disagrees with you. Like always you just don't address Scripture that completely disagrees with you. Do you think this is honest and fair for students you're teaching who don't know better? I do know better. But I'm not sure if you do yet.
Some people are unable to make the complete transition from the old covenant into the new covenant and continue to stumble over the OT Law (and may even mix the old covenant with the new covenant) but in their minds, they believe they have obeyed the Master by sufficiently obeying all of the Law/Commandments (with a heavy emphasis on keeping the Sabbath day) and will receive eternal life based on those terms. We've heard all the sugar coated double talk from SDA's, those in the Hebrew Roots movement and other misguided teachers of the law in general on CC before and the end result is always the same -- "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works." Subtle mixture of law and grace which is a perversion of the gospel. :(
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Of course it is. Anything that is against His Instructions is sin...
so redeeming the firstborn?
where do you take sacrifices?
this isn't done for atonement.

I can't see a justification for ignoring sacrifices and offerings, clearly spelled out, and not keeping them exactly as the letter says, if your stance is 'not one jot or tittle' - - - this position of yours doesn't even remove the demand of sin offerings, because those too are jots and are tittles.

you have to break the Law apart ((to think you can)) in an unjustifiable way in order to make yourself under it and think it doesn't completely condemn you.

your only hope is if it is lifted from you. for example if you were to die, and so no longer be under its power. otherwise you are telling me that all believers are willfully continuing in sin, and there is no salvation.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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IT’S DISAPPOINTING TO LEARN THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE CLAIMING TO BE CHRISTIANS CLING OR TRUST MAN MADE DOCTRINES MORE THAN THE TRUTH IN THE SCRIPTURES.

THESE SELF-PROCLAIMED CHRISTIANS WOULD REJECT GOD’S WORDS, LAWS AND COMMANDS TO DEFEND WHAT WAS TAUGHT TO THEM BY THEIR CHURCH LEADERS.

THESE SELF-PROCLAIMED CHRISTIANS WOULD REJECT GOD’S WORDS, LAWS AND COMMANDS TO DEFEND WHAT WAS TAUGHT TO THEM BY THEIR CHURCH LEADERS. etc.. etc..

Your long winded judgmental, means spirited, self righteous rants are neither edifying or fruitful. :rolleyes:



 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Some people are unable to make the complete transition from the old covenant into the new covenant and continue to stumble over the OT Law (and may even mix the old covenant with the new covenant) but in their minds, they believe they have obeyed the Master by sufficiently obeying all of the Law/Commandments (with a heavy emphasis on keeping the Sabbath day) and will receive eternal life based on those terms. We've heard all the sugar coated double talk from SDA's, those in the Hebrew Roots movement and other misguided teachers of the law in general on CC before and the end result is always the same -- "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works." Subtle mixture of law and grace which is a perversion of the gospel. :(
I wonder about people who say Jesus is the Word made flesh i.e. the creator made flesh, but they worship Yahweh.

Isn't Jesus Yahweh in the flesh? Or is Yahweh the god of the Pharisees about whom Jesus said their father (Yahweh) is not his father, but the devil? (John 8:42-44)

If Jesus was correct, and he always was and is, then that explains the confusion among the OT cults who worship the devil instead of the Creator who became flesh. Naturally enough they are going to twist scripture, as they always do to sustain their error, but it is their error out of their own mouth, that condemns them to eternity in Hell.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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I wonder about people who say Jesus is the Word made flesh i.e. the creator made flesh, but they worship Yahweh.

Isn't Jesus Yahweh in the flesh? Or is Yahweh the god of the Pharisees about whom Jesus said their father (Yahweh) is not his father, but the devil? (John 8:42-44)

If Jesus was correct, and he always was and is, then that explains the confusion among the OT cults who worship the devil instead of the Creator who became flesh. Naturally enough they are going to twist scripture, as they always do to sustain their error, but it is their error out of their own mouth, that condemns them to eternity in Hell.
I have pointed out to them many times- on the mount of transfiguration , God the Father ( Yahweh ) said of the Son, in the presence of Moses ( the Law ) and Elijah ( the Prophets ), hear Him.

so, the Father said to hear the Son. Jesus said " all authority has been given to me". but, they directly disobey this, and insist on putting what God the Father said at Sinai.

lecturing us about command keeping, all the while refusing to obey the Father.

amazing.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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I have pointed out to them many times- on the mount of transfiguration , God the Father ( Yahweh ) said of the Son, in the presence of Moses ( the Law ) and Elijah ( the Prophets ), hear Him.

so, the Father said to hear the Son. Jesus said " all authority has been given to me". but, they directly disobey this, and insist on putting what God the Father said at Sinai.

lecturing us about command keeping, all the while refusing to obey the Father.

amazing.
When we compare their spin with the similar misquotes of the serpent in the Garden of Eden, I get a sense of the deceiver at work.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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1 john 2
3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a LIAR, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word,love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him:6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

revelations 21
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and ALL LIARS—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

LIKE ANANIAS AND SAPPHIRA, WHO AFTER ŔECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT THROUGH FAITH, LIED TO THE HOLY SPIRIT.

WILL THEY BE CONSIGNED TO THE FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR?

DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO YOU?

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things COMETH THE WRATH OF .GOD ÙPON THE CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE


MAN GOT SEPARATED FROM GOD BECAUSE OF THE SIN OF DISOBEDIENCE WHEN MAN WAS DECEIVED BY THE SERPENT WHO SAID THAT “...Ye shall not surely die.”(genesis 3:4)


DÈCEIVERS OF THIS AGE SAYS THE SAME THING;


“YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE (PERIßH / BE CONDEMNED). ONCE YOU'RE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS ßAVED. JUST HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS (OF RIGHTEOUSNESS / ÒBEDIENCE) AND YOU WILL POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE THE MOMENT YOU BELIEVE.


For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES.

"GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED"

"LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR"
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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WHAT A SHAME. NOTICE AND WATCH THESE OSAS PASTORS AND CHURCH LEADERS WHO CLAIM AND DECLARE THAT “FAITH ALONE” SAVES AND IT IS “NOT BY WÒRKS” OF RIGHTEOUSNESS AND OBEDIENCE, WHILE ON THE OTHER HAND COLLECTS TITHES FROM THEIR MEMBERS SAYING THAT IF THEY WOULD NOT GIVE TITHES, THEY ARE ROBBING GOD.

19 Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame.

..THAT TITHE-GIVING IS A TEST OF FAITH AND THAT GOD WILL BLESS THEM ABUNDANTLY BECAUSE WHAT THEY GIVE WILL COME BACK TO THEM IN GOOD MEASURE AND RUNNING OVER.(luke 6:38)


“NOT BY WORKS” OF THE LAW, THEY SAY, BUT THEY COLLECT TITHES ACCORDING TO THE LAW WHILE AT THE SAME TIME CLAIM THAT THEY ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW.


THEY HAVE CREATED A MAN MADE DOCTRINE PASSED ON FROM GENERATION TO GENERATION OUT OF A GOD-GIVEN LAW FOR HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE.

THAT’S HOW THESE VIPERS IN THEIR GREED AND HYPOCRISY DECEIVE THEIR PREYS.(UNKNOWING VICTIMS)

THEY THINK THEY CAN BR IBE GOD.

33 Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments,
and his paths beyond tracing out!
34 “Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counselor?”
35 “Who has ever given to God,
that God should repay them?”
36 For from him and through him and for him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.

THESE VIPERS WILL STILL BE SAVED ACCORDING TO THE OSAS DOCTRINE…

...WHICH IS CONTRARY TO WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES.

11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or GREEDY, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the GREEDY nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or GREEDY person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.


MAN GOT SEPARATED FROM GOD BECAUSE OF THE SIN OF DISOBEDIENCE WHEN MAN WAS DECEIVED BY THE SERPENT WHO SAID THAT “...Ye shall not surely die.”(genesis 3:4)


DÈCEIVERS OF THIS AGE SAYS THE SAME THING;


“YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE (PERIßH / BE CONDEMNED). ONCE YOU'RE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS ßAVED. JUST HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS (OF RIGHTEOUSNESS / ÒBEDIENCE) AND YOU WILL POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE THE MOMENT YOU BELIEVE


DO NOT BE DECEIVED!!!


OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES!!!


3 What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness?4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written:

“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge.”
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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19Go ye therefore, and TEACH ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


OUR LORD JESUS BEFORE GOING BACK TO THE FATHER INSTRUCTED HIS DISCIPLES TO TEACH OBEDIENCE UNTO ALL NATIONS.


IF ANYONE WOULD TEACH THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WORD, TEACHINGS, LAWS AND COMMANDS, IS NOT NECESSARY OR PART OF SALVATION, DOES HE NOT TEACH CONTRARY TO THE LORD’S TEACHINGS?


WHEN THE LORD SAID THAT “IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS”, AND SOMEONE ELSE WOULD SAY THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD WILL NOT SAVE ANYONE BECAUSE “FAITH ALONE SAVES”. IS IT NOT A CLEAR REJECTION, NULLIFICATION, DISRESPECT, DISOBEDIENCE, UNBELIEF AND MOCKERY OF GOD’S WORD?


15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16They profess that they know God; BUT IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being ABOMINABLE, and DISOBEDIENT and unto every good work REPROBATE.


4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, TURNING THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO (A LICENSE FOR) LASCIVIOUSNESS, and DENYING the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.


...Teaching for doctrines the commandments of men….Full well ye reject the commandment of God... making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.(mark 7:6-13)


...because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.(isaiah 5:20-24)


...Be not deceived; GÒD IS NOT MOCKED: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. 10As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.(galatians 6:7-10)


32who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are WORTHY OF DEATH, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things COMETH THE WRATH OF .GOD ÙPON THE CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE


MAN GOT SEPARATED FROM GOD BECAUSE OF THE SIN OF DISOBEDIENCE WHEN MAN WAS DECEIVED BY THE SERPENT WHO SAID THAT “...Ye shall not surely die.”(genesis 3:4)


DÈCEIVERS OF THIS AGE SAYS THE SAME THING;


“YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE (PERIßH / BE CONDEMNED). ONCE YOU'RE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS ßAVED. JUST HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS (OF RIGHTEOUSNESS / ÒBEDIENCE) AND YOU WILL POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE THE MOMENT YOU BELIEVE.



IS IT NOT APPOINTED FOR MEN TO DIE ONCE AND FACE JUDGMENT AFTER? (hebrews 9:27-28)


11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw THE DEAD, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOÙND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.


“FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD”


JESUS HAS NOT FOUND YOUR WORKS COMPLETE IN THE SIGHT OF GOD. REMEMBER THEREFORE WHÀT YOU HEARD AND RECEIVED. OBEY IT, AND REPENT.(revelations 3:1-6)



47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48HE THAT REJECTETH ME, and RECEIVETH NOT MY WORDS, hath one that judgeth him: THE WORD THAT I HAVE SPOKEN, THE SAME SHALL. JUDGE HIM IN THE LAST DAY. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I KNOW THAT HIS COMMANDMENT IS LIFE EVERLASTING: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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19Go ye therefore, and TEACH ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

OUR LORD JESUS BEFORE GOING BACK TO THE FATHER INSTRUCTED HIS DISCIPLES TO TEACH OBEDIENCE UNTO ALL NATIONS.
These are the new commandments of Jesus (notice the 'I') who gave us the New Covenant and NOT the commandments given to Moses on Mount Sinai.

Did you realise that?
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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This morning devotion: Obedience or discipline. It will be one or the other.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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I live off grid in Mark Twain National Forest in Missouri and 25 to 30 miles from the nearest town and a cable.....I have Sat. internet with unlimited gigs and right now have two laptops running, cell phone with internet and both laptops are downloading videos and surfing the web at the same time......VIA SAT and do not know the speed, but I have the biggest wifi and when my brother and friends are here they are on as well....I also have a regular phone connected......like 130 or so a month......
Hi decon, this thread and myself would like to see a new reality show called, "Roughin' It, with Dave and Friends." Promoting our National Forests and learning how to lower your carbon foot print by, "Living Off the Grid", really
just kiddin' ya migo....:)
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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I wonder about people who say Jesus is the Word made flesh i.e. the creator made flesh, but they worship Yahweh.

Isn't Jesus Yahweh in the flesh? Or is Yahweh the god of the Pharisees about whom Jesus said their father (Yahweh) is not his father, but the devil? (John 8:42-44)

If Jesus was correct, and he always was and is, then that explains the confusion among the OT cults who worship the devil instead of the Creator who became flesh. Naturally enough they are going to twist scripture, as they always do to sustain their error, but it is their error out of their own mouth, that condemns them to eternity in Hell.

Here is what it says:

Isaiah 43:10-11 (HCSB)
10 “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
11 I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.

Isaiah 43:15 (HCSB)
15 I am Yahweh, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King.

Luke 2:11-14 (HCSB)
11 Today a Savior, who is Messiah the Lord, was born for you in the city of David.
12 This will be the sign for you: You will find a baby wrapped snugly in cloth and lying in a feeding trough.”
13 Suddenly there was a multitude of the heavenly host with the angel, praising God and saying:
14 Glory to God in the highest heaven, and peace on earth to people He favors!

Ephesians 3:8-11 (HCSB)
8 This grace was given to me—the least of all the saints—to proclaim to the Gentiles the incalculable riches of the Messiah,
9 and to shed light for all about the administration of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things.
10 This is so God’s multi-faceted wisdom may now be made known through the church to the rulers and authorities in the heavens.
11 This is according to His eternal purpose accomplished in the Messiah, Jesus our Lord.

Colossians 1:16-19 (HCSB)
16 For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
18 He is also the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything.
19 For God was pleased ⌊to have⌋ all His fullness dwell in Him,

2 Corinthians 5:19 (ASV)
19 to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Philippians 2:5-6 (HCSB)
5 Make your own attitude that of Christ Jesus,
6 who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be used for His own advantage.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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lol is there any such thing as a spirit body..?

He ate a fish to prove to them that His body was not a spirit. we will be literally resurrected, and these tents will be changed, to be as His.
How can you read the scriptures and then ask, is there such a thing as a spirit body?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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The law was until....

a. The end of the age
b. Jesus gave up the Ghost
c. Until we decide
d. UNTIL JOHN

Fairly clear D is the answer...........those who push the law have no understanding that it is for the LAWLESS who are LOST and it's purpose is to POINT TO THE CURE which is faith ins JESUS....

THOSE who exercise SAVING FAITH are POSITIONALLY JUSTIFIED and SANCTIFIED in CHRIST having the RIGHTEOUSNESS of CHRIST ETERNALLY APPLIED BY FAITH WITHOUT the LAW...the SAME righteousness which SATISFIES the requirements of the LAW...

IT is not that difficult to understand!

You are clearly WRONG dc.

You have forgotten the ongoing purpose for the LAW.


Romans 3:20 (HCSB)
20 For no one will be justified in His sight by the works of the law,
because the knowledge of sin ⌊comes⌋ through the law.


Romans 3:23-24 (HCSB)
23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
24 They are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Matthew 5:17-20 (HCSB)
17 “Don’t assume that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 For I assure you: Until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or one stroke of a letter will pass from the law until all things are accomplished.
19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commands and teaches people to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever practices and teaches ⌊these commands⌋ will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.


The Law's primary Purpose will never be destroyed, as long as Sin is in this world. It is through that KNOWLEDGE of SIN, most people will seek a SAVIOR, and receive HIM as LORD of their lives, out of Pure LOVE for HIM.

The correct answer is A, because, only in the eternal state will sin be done away with, in the mortals of this world.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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How can you read the scriptures and then ask, is there such a thing as a spirit body?
because what is born of spirit is spirit and what is born of flesh is flesh.
'body' in English connotes flesh.

the resurrected body is not made of spirit, didn't Christ prove this to the disciples who thought He was a ghost ((same word as spirit in greek)) by eating a fish?

probably this is a language problem.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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Well that passage I quoted literally says "born again" and explains it, so while there are a number of passages on this topic I believe that to be one of the most if not the most descriptive...

Also the passage you quoted all you have to do is read one more verse:

John 5:24-29,24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me possesses everlasting life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of Elohim. And those having heard shall live."26 “For as the Father possesses life in Himself, so He gave also to the Son to possess life in Himself,"27 and He has given Him authority also to do judgment, because He is the Son of Aḏam."28 “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice,"29 and shall come forth – those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practised evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment."

how is it that "the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of Elohim"

the "the hour is coming" is this

Mat 24:29-31, "Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other."

the "now is" is this

Matthew 27:50-53,50 And יהושע cried out again with a loud voice, and gave up His spirit."51 And see, the veil of the Dwelling Place was torn in two from top to bottom, and the earth was shaken, and the rocks were split,"52 and the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the set-apart ones who had fallen asleep were raised,"53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection, they went into the set-apart city and appeared to many."

these are the :

Rev 4:4 And around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, dressed in white robes. And they had crowns of gold on their heads."
What version are you reading that uses the term, "the Son of Elohim"? That is interesting to me. Who do you think Elohim is?
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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because what is born of spirit is spirit and what is born of flesh is flesh.
'body' in English connotes flesh.

the resurrected body is not made of spirit, didn't Christ prove this to the disciples who thought He was a ghost ((same word as spirit in greek)) by eating a fish?

probably this is a language problem.
What kind of a body did Jesus have when he took the thief into paradise?