Not By Works

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Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
Maybe your reference to sexual orgies? What legitimate place does that have on this board?
This was brought up by another member.

Pagan feasts involved meat sacrifice and sexual orgies.

God rebukes two churches for engaging in these idolatrous feasts, which included indulging in the sacrificed meat and engaging in fornication.
I was saying meat sacrificed to idols is a sin.

He was saying it was because they had the meat and did sexual perversion at the same time.

I said either one is wrong, alone or togather...
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,270
113
LOL, you have a WAY different opinion of hardcore conservative Evangelical. LOL. Do you know how many Churches, especially in the Bible Belt, that appose those things. LOL. Not even CLOSE to the Truth. Hardcore Conservative Evangelical, has nothing to do with those things. It has to do with their THEOLOGY. I have not been Drunk since about 1980, but I like a drink a beer once in awhile. I heard a Dr. recommend a beer a day is good for the heart, but I forget to drink one about 5 out of 7 days. The LORD HIMSELF, took Cigarettes away from me in early 1978. He was making me feel guilty about smoking cigarettes, and like I started to argue with HIM, "Why should I quit, as long as I enjoy them." The next morning I got up sitting on the edge of the bed, reached for the pack of cigarettes on the night stand, took one PUFF. AND IT TASTED HORRIBLE! Then HE put the Thought directly into my head, "WHAT'S YOUR EXCUSE NOW DUMMY." You see, I watched my Aunt die of lung cancer at 29 years of age. From a pack and a half a day, to COLD TURKEY, in one JUMP, because that was the LAST cigarette I ever had. I buy a Lotto Ticket once in a while, but MOSTLY, I just forget to buy it. So your THEORY, on what constitutes a hardcore conservative evangelical, absolutely holds NO WATER with me:


calibob's Theory on who is a Hardcore, Conservative, Evangelical.

View attachment 188117
Never going to get that bucket full.
Lol.. Heard a glass of RED WINE is ood for the heart..beer is like drinking a stick of butter..lots of calories..etc..lol
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
36,289
13,590
113
Magenta, I notice that we are BOTH Senior Members, . . . . . . . and I have to wonder, what is the next step in seniority process?
:unsure: . . . . . . . Perhaps, "One Foot In The Grave". :LOL:
And now you got me wondering what exactly "Senior Member" means! LOL o_O

Does it have to do with our age, or our length of time on the site?
:unsure:
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
I thought sacrifices both to God or idols was OT law? JESUS was the "sacrifice" (the perfect Lamb that was slain) that was a game changer...
Well in Acts and Revelation it says not to eat meat sacrificed to idols, so I don't see how it could be permissable in any era. SOme were saying it is not s sin, I was saying it was, citing Acts and Revelation...

Agreeing but its not a happy agreement..the subject is sad n wrong..
I agree 100%, I was speaking on meat sacrificed to idols and another member here brough up the sexual perversion, which of course is a sin according to the word, I was simply pointing out either one on it;s own is wrong...
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,270
113
Well in Acts and Revelation it says not to eat meat sacrificed to idols, so I don't see how it could be permissable in any era. SOme were saying it is not s sin, I was saying it was, citing Acts and Revelation...



I agree 100%, I was speaking on meat sacrificed to idols and another member here brough up the sexual perversion, which of course is a sin according to the word, I was simply pointing out either one on it;s own is wrong...
Yeah..ummm..i agree that it was wrong to eat meat sacrificed to idols in the OT..
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,885
3,816
113
So are you saying that it is ok to "eat meat sacrificed to idols" as long as it is not done while having a sexual orgy?

I think both, either done alone or togather are not permissable.
With regards to the question above, the meat was sacrificed first to a pagan God then the sexual orgy followed.


I'm addressing the whole context and putting it into perspective per revelations and Acts and the culture of the time.
Is there a connection between food and sexual immorality in the verses I posted from Acts and revelations?

In those times the two were relataed.

Paul said it was ok, he was sent to the Gentiles.
Considered an equal by Peter.

Have you been cirumcised?

Ever had a bacon sandwich?
Ever eaten shellfish?
Ever eaten chorizo?

The above 3 are considered unclean and should not be eaten either.

Are you saved by grace through faith?
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,270
113
With regards to the question above, the meat was sacrificed first to a pagan God then the sexual orgy followed.


I'm addressing the whole context and putting it into perspective per revelations and Acts and the culture of the time.
Is there a connection between food and sexual immorality in the verses I posted from Acts and revelations?

In those times the two were relataed.

Paul said it was ok, he was sent to the Gentiles.
Considered an equal by Peter.

Have you been cirumcised?

Ever had a bacon sandwich?
Ever eaten shellfish?
Ever eaten chorizo?

The above 3 are considered unclean and should not be eaten either.

Are you saved by grace through faith?
Good one bill! ;)
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,885
3,816
113
This was brought up by another member.



I was saying meat sacrificed to idols is a sin.

He was saying it was because they had the meat and did sexual perversion at the same time.

I said either one is wrong, alone or togather...
I never said that at all.

How can one eat meat and be sexually immoral at the same time?
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
Yeah..ummm..i agree that it was wrong to eat meat sacrificed to idols in the OT..
But you think it's ok in the "NT"?

Acts 15 was a decision made by the disciples of Yahshua led by the Spirit of YHWH as instructions to "those coming to Christ"

Acts 15:28-29, “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

Revelation is the final book written and direct revelation from Yahshua, as this is Him literally speaking:

Revelation 2:14, "But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality."

Revelation 2:20, "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols."

Revelation 9:20-21, “And the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship the demons, and idols of gold, and of silver, and of brass, and of stone, and of wood, which are neither able to see, nor to hear, nor to walk, and they did not repent of their murders, nor of their drug sorceries, nor of their whoring, nor of their thefts.”

Considering the words of the Messiah is it not clear that this is wrong?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,885
3,816
113
But you think it's ok in the "NT"?

Acts 15 was a decision made by the disciples of Yahshua led by the Spirit of YHWH as instructions to "those coming to Christ"

Acts 15:28-29, “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

Revelation is the final book written and direct revelation from Yahshua, as this is Him literally speaking:

Revelation 2:14, "But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality."

Revelation 2:20, "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols."

Revelation 9:20-21, “And the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship the demons, and idols of gold, and of silver, and of brass, and of stone, and of wood, which are neither able to see, nor to hear, nor to walk, and they did not repent of their murders, nor of their drug sorceries, nor of their whoring, nor of their thefts.”

Considering the words of the Messiah is it not clear that this is wrong?
Yep she has got it right
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
3,163
3,582
113
59
The RCC has different governing bodies (23) all must align theselves with the Vatican but they can be vastly different as well much like protestants their are different segments that have different beliefs. There are 23 branches of the RCC some like sacred heart Venerate Mary over jesus and teach we are not good enough to pray to jesus but must pray to Mary that she prays for us and pass the message on to Jesus. That was the sect I was raised into. Jews are born saved through Gods promise to Abraham but that everyone else is going to hell including babys due to the sins in the garden of eden and that the only way to get save is to be baptized, say confession to a priest be forgiven by the priest and have holy communion in that order while others teach that only 144,000 Jews will be saved because they became catholic and on and on.

They teach that what is written in the bible are often sacred mysteries most men can't understand. I's OK to read the bible but only a priest can explain many of them and we should not trust our own understanding but always submit to the teachings of the catholic church bla bla bla. I was taught this nonsense since about age 6 and by 12, I was brainwashed. Most are afraid to admit they don't believe it. Hell is a signifigant deterrent for most people.

@Deade has written books on the subject, if you want to know more I'd recommend asking him. Catholics aren't bad, they're brainwashed and deceived.
Hi...I understand why the Catholics believe the way they do , but what I am saying is I cannot understand a Christian who says that works have anything to do with our Salvation...Are their eyes blinded , why cannot they see what we see...Even Jesus emptied everything of Himself , what makes people think they have to add ?...xox...
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,270
113
I never said that at all.

How can one eat meat and be sexually immoral at the same time?
Lol..gotta say..my husband tried that..sex n cookies at the same time..lol..didnt quite work n now an "ex"..lol
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
I never said that at all.

How can one eat meat and be sexually immoral at the same time?
You really thought I meant at the exact same second? Really? Either one done alone is wrong, both done in the same ritual is also wrong.

With regards to the question above, the meat was sacrificed first to a pagan God then the sexual orgy followed.


I'm addressing the whole context and putting it into perspective per revelations and Acts and the culture of the time.
Is there a connection between food and sexual immorality in the verses I posted from Acts and revelations?

In those times the two were relataed.

Paul said it was ok, he was sent to the Gentiles.
Considered an equal by Peter.

Have you been cirumcised?

Ever had a bacon sandwich?
Ever eaten shellfish?
Ever eaten chorizo?

The above 3 are considered unclean and should not be eaten either.

Are you saved by grace through faith?
Peter says he was went to the gentiles:

Acts 15:6-7, “So the apostles and the elders met to consider this statement. After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe."

What does bacon or shellfish have to do with meat sacrificed to idols? You are playing a shell game here. They are 2 different things...

What does "Are you saved by grace through faith?" have to do with meat sacrificed to idols? You are playing a shell game here. They are 2 different things...
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,270
113
Hi...I understand why the Catholics believe the way they do , but what I am saying is I cannot understand a Christian who says that works have anything to do with our Salvation...Are their eyes blinded , why cannot they see what we see...Even Jesus emptied everything of Himself , what makes people think they have to add ?...xox...
"Works" comes AFTER salvation..but in saying that it has no bearing on keeping or losing ones salvation either..we DO GOOD WORKS BECAUSE we Love God..thats it...! :) if you love someone..you WANT to do what please them..not because you HAVE tl or afraid they wont love you anymore...but when you date or MARRY somome you dont do good works so theyll marry or EARN thier love either..no different than God..
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,270
113
But you think it's ok in the "NT"?

Acts 15 was a decision made by the disciples of Yahshua led by the Spirit of YHWH as instructions to "those coming to Christ"

Acts 15:28-29, “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

Revelation is the final book written and direct revelation from Yahshua, as this is Him literally speaking:

Revelation 2:14, "But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality."

Revelation 2:20, "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols."

Revelation 9:20-21, “And the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship the demons, and idols of gold, and of silver, and of brass, and of stone, and of wood, which are neither able to see, nor to hear, nor to walk, and they did not repent of their murders, nor of their drug sorceries, nor of their whoring, nor of their thefts.”

Considering the words of the Messiah is it not clear that this is wrong?
I didnt say that..i DID say that Jesus death was the game changer n new "law" maker..
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,270
113
You really thought I meant at the exact same second? Really? Either one done alone is wrong, both done in the same ritual is also wrong.



Peter says he was went to the gentiles:

Acts 15:6-7, “So the apostles and the elders met to consider this statement. After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe."

What does bacon or shellfish have to do with meat sacrificed to idols? You are playing a shell game here. They are 2 different things...

What does "Are you saved by grace through faith?" have to do with meat sacrificed to idols? You are playing a shell game here. They are 2 different things...
Was he maybe showing the difference that jesus death made? According to OT law..couldnt eat certain foods etc n after Jesus..it was acceptable because we arent bound by the OT law anymore?
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
I didnt say that..i DID say that Jesus death was the game changer n new "law" maker..
OK and He said:

Revelation 2:20, "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols."

SO to me, that is the way I see it, there is no doubt; it is not permissable.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,885
3,816
113
But you think it's ok in the "NT"?

Acts 15 was a decision made by the disciples of Yahshua led by the Spirit of YHWH as instructions to "those coming to Christ"

Acts 15:28-29, “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

Revelation is the final book written and direct revelation from Yahshua, as this is Him literally speaking:

Revelation 2:14, "But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality."

Revelation 2:20, "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols."

Revelation 9:20-21, “And the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship the demons, and idols of gold, and of silver, and of brass, and of stone, and of wood, which are neither able to see, nor to hear, nor to walk, and they did not repent of their murders, nor of their drug sorceries, nor of their whoring, nor of their thefts.”

Considering the words of the Messiah is it not clear that this is wrong?
Was Jesus cirumcised?
I guess he was. A sign of the covenant in the OT.

Why did he not condemn those in revalations for not being circumcised?

You had the snip?

Very interesting of the above. You highlight food sacrificed to idols but not sexually imorrality.

Whereas in my post concerning revelations I bolded immorality and food sacrificed to idols.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,464
113
Anaheim, Cali.
Hi...I understand why the Catholics believe the way they do , but what I am saying is I cannot understand a Christian who says that works have anything to do with our Salvation...Are their eyes blinded , why cannot they see what we see...Even Jesus emptied everything of Himself , what makes people think they have to add ?...xox...
Because the bold sacrifice of the son of God is just too easy for some to accept. They want it to be more difficult to ease their conscience and make them feel they've earned it some how. They don't understand grace no matter how many times they've sang 'Amazing Grace' and still don't understand a fathers love can be greater than his anger.