Not By Works

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Sep 9, 2018
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Thing is..how many times do they get told when we all know they wont budge on thier beliefs..who draws that line?
I give up on these wolves quickly . . . my answers are not even really directed to them at all . . . but to others that are still wondering about the answer.
 
Sep 9, 2018
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In verse 2, how do you interpret: He cuts off every branch IN ME that bears no fruit?
Cutting off the branch is very much different that being ripped up by the root and tossed into the flames . . .

"And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire" (Matthew 3:9-10).
 

dcontroversal

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Dec 12, 2013
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Amen Jewel, "Paradise lost -- the first Adam; Paradise restored -- the second Adam, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, praise God.
I would substitute the word fellowship with Paradise ;) the latter being a given based upon the first hahaha
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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The truth is simple....to teach salvation can be lost the following must be false, rejected, tossed, denied, embellished, twisted and Jesus is a weak inept liar that cannot keep his word.

a. I will never leave thee nor forsake thee
b. We are saved to the uttermost
c. We are kept by the power of God through faith
d. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise
e. The gifts of God are irrevocable
f. Whatsoever God does is everlasting
g. We are in the Father's hand
h. We are in the Son's hand
i. I will LOSE NOTHING
k. Eternal and Everlasting as applied to life means temporal based upon what we do
l. Justified eternally by faith is a lie
m. Sanctified eternally in Christ is a lie
n. THE GOOD shepherd leaves the 99 to find the one that wanders
o. I will in no wise cast thee out
p. Justified means guilty
q. The truth of 1st Corinthians 3 and works of both gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay and stubble must be chunked
r. Who God chastens and why must be denied
s. The facts of the Prodigal story must be denied
t. Etc.

So many truths must be denied, rejected and or tossed to teach a losable salvation......!
 
Sep 9, 2018
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I posted a song earlier from Ron Hamilton, also known as Patch the Pirate. He lost an eye to cancer and wears a patch. The kids called him a pirate, so it stuck.

Any way, I posted it to show what is being illustrated in the passage in John about the branches being cut off.

Now I can see testing comes from above;
God strengthens His children and purges in love.
My Father knows best, and I trust in His care;
Through purging more fruit I will bear.

It is an absolute shame that these wolves use such a tender expression of God's love for us to create in the minds of so many a capricious God just waiting for us to trip up so that He can crush us to powder, and to teach their vile works heresy.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Do you like the idea that God chooses whether you have EL or hell fire? IOW some people are gifted with EL, and some people are not and go to hell fire.
You are so lost benhur,

God has put so many born again Christians around you so that you will have the absolute "Pure Milk" of the "Word of God", yet you remain stubborn and non-responsive.

Long ago all that a Missionary would need to convey the loving message of God's Eternal Salvation is a few sheets of colored paper and God would birth new believers into a fallen world and the angels in heaven would rejoice -- but not you. Precious believers on this forum have given you their very best at presenting a clear and honest Gospel and yet you still believe that we need to work so as to not lose our eternal salvation.

Your belief that we can forfeit our eternal salvation for lack of producing fruit/works is an insult to God's plan of salvation for humankind and an insult to the "Power of the Cross"; was not Jesus' sacrifice sufficient to "forever save", even the worst of the worst sinner -- not for you, Jesus needs a little help to get us all the way there. You really should reconsider your half baked, half true, and half the power of the "The True Gospel"

 
Sep 9, 2018
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You are so lost benhur,

God has put so many born again Christians around you so that you will have the absolute "Pure Milk" of the "Word of God", yet you remain stubborn and non-responsive.

Long ago all that a Missionary would need to convey the loving message of God's Eternal Salvation is a few sheets of colored paper and God would birth new believers into a fallen world and the angels in heaven would rejoice -- but not you. Precious believers on this forum have given you their very best at presenting a clear and honest Gospel and yet you still believe that we need to work so as to not lose our eternal salvation.

Your belief that we can forfeit our eternal salvation for lack of producing fruit/works is an insult to God's plan of salvation for humankind and an insult to the "Power of the Cross"; was not Jesus' sacrifice sufficient to "forever save", even the worst of the worst sinner -- not for you, Jesus needs a little help to get us all the way there. You really should reconsider your half baked, half true, and half the power of the "The True Gospel"

Folks like this are those that have suppressed the truth of the gospel for so long that I'm not sure they haven't sinned away their day of grace.

The sinner is told that there is nothing they can do to earn Heaven but they respond with, "No way! If I can't prove my worth to God I want no part in His charity" . . . and after enough refusals to trust Christ they join the crowd in Romans 1:18ff.

Hell and destruction are never full . . . and sadly, it will be filled with some very good and sincere people that just weren't interested in going there in any other way than theirs.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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I would substitute the word "fellowship with Paradise";) the latter being a given based upon the first hahaha
Amen Jewel, "Fellowship lost" -- the first Adam; "Paradise restored" -- the second Adam, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, praise God.
You gotta a sharp eye there partner and thanks....:)
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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If I do not believe 100% what you believe it does not mean I worship a different Jesus than you do. It means there is 1 Jesus that we believe in, and worship, but think differently about some aspects of his life and doctrines.

Thank you, I missed it, because I was not expecting it there. So forgive me for implying that you refused to answer. I only found two answers on questions that I disagree with, BUT THANKFULLY, you agree on HIS DEITY. I was afraid that because of some of the posts that you have worded so STRANGE, that You were going to Deny His Deity. I still think you need to work on how you phrase certain common Christian Terms, because how you Phrase them, you give us a misunderstanding of WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM.

Here are the two that I found, not dealing with HIS Deity, that I would have answered differently.

Is HE a Fully Man and Fully GOD at the same time?
No, he is now fully God, having a resurrected and perfect body of flesh and bone.


I do not know why you said NO, when it contradicts the rest of the statement. I would have said Yes, with the same statement you said. God is SPIRIT, and the Flesh and Bone part is Still Human, the way WE shall be after the Resurrection. To me the difference between JESUS and US is the human spirit in US was created by HIM, and the Spirit in HIM is the CREATOR.

2 Corinthians 5:19 (ASV)
19 to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Christ did not GIVE UP HIS DEITY when HE became a man, HE willing laid it aside for 33 years, but at all times HE still considered Himself to be EQUAL to GOD.

Philippians 2:5-6 (HCSB)
5 Make your own attitude that of Christ Jesus,
6 who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be used for His own advantage.

Is HIS SALVATION COMPLETE at the time HE GIVES IT AS A FREE GIFT, FOREVER?
No, this is OSAS and I do not believe it nor does at least 1/2 of the churches.


You answered that one, the way I expected you to. I do not think I NEED to quote all of the Verses that Prove HIS GRACE IS ETERNAL, all over again. You deny that IT means what it says. I also think YOUR ESTIMATE of how many Churches DO NOT BELIEVE in the Eternal Security of the TRUE BELIEVE (same as OSAS), is grossly exaggerated. You see, I did a lot of Church hoping when I was Younger, and NEVER found myself in a Church that did not believe in OSAS.

I have been involved in:

Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod - 3
Lutheran Church, Evangelical Synod - 2
Southern Baptist Church - 1
Baptist Church - IFCA - 1
Evangelical Free Church - 2
Community Church - Bible Teaching - 3
Bible Churches - 4
Grace Brethren Church -1

We MOVED a lot over the 36.5 years that we were married. As well as a number of other Churches that we tried, while searching for a new Church. Before I ever attended any of them I got their Statement of Faith, and most often I talked to their Pastors. NONE OF THEM THOUGHT YOU WERE NOT ETERNALLY SAVED, IF YOUR FAITH WAS REAL.

So you probably attend a fringe area of the Mainline Denominations. And if you are an example, they do not teach Born Again; and if they do, it is faulty in their understanding of it. Do I think you are Born Again. NOT THAT I CAN TELL, YET. You trust what they taught you, but that is not Born Again. Just being Honest.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Why must you always equate good works with self righteousness? I have given you no reason to continue to tag that to me.
Yes you have, because your doing it and preaching you must maintain salvation. Thus you preach self righteousness. Not Gods righteousness. Which is God working in you to do good works..

Deny it all you want.
 
Sep 27, 2018
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Yes you have, because your doing it and preaching you must maintain salvation. Thus you preach self righteousness. Not Gods righteousness. Which is God working in you to do good works..

Deny it all you want.
Then if this is true
Jesus did no good works
for it was God working in him
to do the good works.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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Then if this is true
Jesus did no good works
for it was God working in him
to do the good works.
You should study more before you talk

Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.
 
Sep 27, 2018
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You should study more before you talk

Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.
Thank you for proving I am correct.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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Thank you for proving I am correct.
Actually, I proved your statement wrong....your attempt was to prove EG wrong and your second statement proves you did not believe what he said about God working thru us...including Christ....

You should look up the word dishonest and then look in the mirror!

Then if this is true
Jesus did no good works
for it was God working in him
to do the good works.
 
Sep 27, 2018
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Actually, I proved your statement wrong....your attempt was to prove EG wrong and your second statement proves you did not believe what he said about God working thru us...including Christ....

You should look up the word dishonest and then look in the mirror!

Then if this is true
Jesus did no good works
for it was God working in him
to do the good works.
Just because you say it is true or not true does not make it true.

God shall judge this not you.