Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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You are pushing a gospel that say's we must work to keep ourselves saved. That is a false gospel it is Jesus who saves and keeps us saved.

What you are saying is that Jesus' death on the cross was not sufficient to keep us save that he needs a little extra help that is an insult, To pretend that you do not know what everybody is talking about adds injury to insult.

You are so proud of your works but so so lost and why do people think your gospel is unbelievable?
Amen....his street organ dancing monkey gospel devalues the work of Christ.....my bible tells me we are kept by the power of God through faith.....not by works!
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Benhur post#72,787
What do think it means when God cuts off the branch and takes it away. Do you think that could do with you not getting EL with him. It is a scriptural metaphor for what it takes "to lose your salvation." Being cut off the true vine means you are no longer in line for EL.

If you do not produce fruit for the KOG, you will not be in the KOG. IOW you will not have salvation in the KOG.
Hi BaptistBibleBeliever , I'm on your side and I reported benhurs post today. As a matter of fact this post should upset every Christian, listen to his words will you please, he is saying that if "God's Children" do not produce fruit/works, God is going to, "cut us off" and throw us into the fire.

God will discipline His Children but He will never "cut us of", ask the "Prodigal Son"

This post was so arrogant and against my Savior Jesus Christ, never mind myself, that I was moved to report benhurs post. He offended my God and My Savior Jesus Christ.

Thank you BaptistBibleBeliever and God bless you for defending our Savior

Does this post of benhur not offend some of the posters on this thread, I find it extremely offensive. benhur say's that without enough fruit/works we will be cut off the true vine, "Really?" I do not think this forum is a place to voice this level of "false doctrine" on such a beautiful International Christian Forum.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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"Judas Escariot "was never in the vine" of Christ" (This is a false statement)

This is a false statement, Judas Escariot was absolutely, "in the vine" he was one of Jesus twelve disciples. You are twisting God's word to make it say what you want it to say and there are many bible scholars that would disagree with your statement. Our Heavenly Father will discipline His own Children but He will never "cut us off", you are misinterpreting, John15:2, to your shame.

You are trying to prove that a "True born again believer" can lose their eternal salvation and the bible is clear that God will not lose one of his sheep, not one. And our eternal salvation is "a gift" you cannot work for a gift.

John15:2
He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.

benhur you are pushing a "false gosple"



I can produce as many bible scholars that do agree with me as you can produce that disagree with me. It is my belief that Judas was never really in the true vine of Jesus or he would not have betrayed him. Is the reason you went the scholars route is because you cannot find a passage in the bible that makes your point?

What I believe is what I find in the bible. The bible is not a false teacher.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Good works does have a part in keeping you saved. But good works on its own will not save you. It is Jesus that saves you, not your works alone. But Jesus is not going to save you in his kingdom, unless you continue to abide in him and he in you, and you continue to produce fruit for his kingdom. If you stop producing fruit he will prune you and purge you and help you to produce more fruit. If you find it too dificult to be engaged in the work of the Lord, then you willl not have EL with the Lord, it is just that simple. Saying I believe and doing what I believe are light years apart in the application of the word of God.

So I believe that good works alone will not save you, but saying I believe in Jesus Christ, and saying you have faith in Christ, and saying you trust in Jesus Christ, but have not good works or little good works for Jesus Christ will result in you branch being cut off, or pruned, or purged sharply to get you to come back into the vine and start producing fruit that will lead to EL.
BEN, there you go again, rattling off a post without even reading what you wrote. Look at what I highlighted in RED.

What you just said is that Jesus Saves you, but some part of Salvation is because of your WORKS.

If that is what you MEANT TO SAY; then you are on your own, and you do preach the false gospel of works righteousness. That expression does not mean ONLY your works can save you, IT MEANS YOU BELIEVE PART OF YOUR SALVATION is dependent on your WORKS..

IF IT WAS AN ERROR ON YOUR PART, PLEASE CORRECT IT.

Now the REST OF your post is in ERROR TOO, look at my last post to you. #72,815
 

ljs

Member
Jan 13, 2018
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It offends me truthtalk !!!!

Ephesians 2 : 8-9

For by GRACE are ye saved through FAITH , and that not of yourselves , it is the GIFT of God
NOT of WORKS , lest any man should BOAST !!!!!
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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Anaheim, Cali.
Could you please in your own words, explain what you meant by that EXPRESSION IN RED above?
I wanna hear this!
I can produce as many bible scholars that do agree with me as you can produce that disagree with me. It is my belief that Judas was never really in the true vine of Jesus or he would not have betrayed him. Is the reason you went the scholars route is because you cannot find a passage in the bible that makes your point?

What I believe is what I find in the bible. The bible is not a false teacher.
Your banter is coming form your head and not from your heart. I can find scholars and scientists' that will say our God is an ET, the world is flat, Hitler's alive...Astrology is science, the devil was just misunderstood. What does your heart say? Or do you know?
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Is the reason you went the scholars route is because you cannot find a passage in the bible that makes your point?
Your works gospel will not save a flea,

Romans8:35
Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,260
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It offends me truthtalk !!!!

Ephesians 2 : 8-9

For by GRACE are ye saved through FAITH , and that not of yourselves , it is the GIFT of God
NOT of WORKS , lest any man should BOAST !!!!!
Thank you Ljs for speaking out and God bless!
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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Good works does have a part in keeping you saved. But good works on its own will not save you.
BEN, there you go again, rattling off a post without even reading what you wrote. Look at what I highlighted in RED.

What you just said is that Jesus Saves you, but some part of Salvation is because of your WORKS.
(Yes this is what he believes).


If that is what you MEANT TO SAY; then you are on your own, and you do preach the false gospel of works righteousness.
Hi VCO, benhur has been pushing his works agenda from the time he came to this forum/thread. It is a partial works gospel because he believes it is Jesus who saves but we need to keep producing works or we will lose our eternal salvation. A half of a gospel is a whole lie is what I was taught from since I was a babe in Christ.

His particular brand of false doctrine - (poison), includes a "social gospel", whereby the Church will over come all of the social problems in the world today. Because he is a Liberal Christian that thinks the Church will be the answer to all of the worlds social ills; he therefore interprets the bible to be a "works gospel" First Jesus saves us and then we go to work to keep our salvation and eternal life.

Question: "What is the social gospel?"

Answer: The phrase “social gospel” is usually used to describe a Protestant Christian intellectual movement that came to prominence in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Those who adhered to a social gospel sought to apply Christian ethics to social problems such as poverty, slums, poor nutrition and education, alcoholism, crime, and war. These things were emphasized while the doctrines of sin, salvation, heaven and hell, and the future kingdom of God were downplayed.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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I can produce as many bible scholars that do agree with me as you can produce that disagree with me. It is my belief that Judas was never really in the true vine of Jesus or he would not have betrayed him. Is the reason you went the scholars route is because you cannot find a passage in the bible that makes your point?

What I believe is what I find in the bible. The bible is not a false teacher.
NO BUT YOUR INTERPRETATION of the BIBLE, can be a False Doctrine or a False Gospel.
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
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Judas Escariot was never in the vine of Christ. The true vine is for only believers. Judas was not a believer, so he was not in the true vine.
How do you KNOW judas wasnt a true believer? True believers fall to temptation all the time like judas did..
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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How do you KNOW judas wasnt a true believer? True believers fall to temptation all the time like judas did..
We know Judas was not a true believer because Jesus called him unclean, and said he was doomed to destruction.
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
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I think that is a way you can look at how good works is part of the equation. But tell me what rewards are given in heaven after you have be given EL? This is a real question, I am interested in knowing.
Only God knows the rewards u get in heaven...
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
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We know Judas was not a true believer because Jesus called him unclean, and said he was doomed to destruction.
He wasnt always like that n he might have repented bedore he committed suicide..we dont know..
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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Anaheim, Cali.
How do you KNOW judas wasnt a true believer? True believers fall to temptation all the time like judas did..
We know Judas was not a true believer because Jesus called him unclean, and said he was doomed to destruction.
I don't think Christians can become possessed.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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He wasnt always like that n he might have repented bedore he committed suicide..we dont know..
Jesus knew. And it is recorded in Scripture that He knew. He called Judas unclean. He called him the son of perdition. That means Judas was doomed to destruction. If you believe Judas was saved at one time, then he lost his salvation, whereas Jesus says He will lose none of those who are given to Him.

John 6:64 "But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.