Not By Works

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benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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121
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WOW, and that did not mess with your brain? Some of them are pure false teachers where I come from, namely Jimmy Swaggart and N. V. Peal.

Hear are my major Teachers, all cut from the same bolt of Theological Cloth.

The Bible teachers that have had the most influence on my spiritual growth are:


Dr. John MacArthur, Jr. - http://www.gty.org/ sermons dating back to the early 70s - free to listen to.
Dr. Adrian Rogers - http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/love-worth-finding/
Dr. Charles Stanley - http://www.intouch.org/
Dr. Richard Lee - http://www.firstredeemer.org/
Dr. Zola Levitt - http://www.levitt.tv/media/watch/118 - some free - videos
Dr. Ed Young - http://www.winningwalk.org/t-bio.aspx
Dr. Gil Rugh - http://www.ihcc.org/ - free sermons dating back to the late 70s - free
Dr. Chuck Swindoll - http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/insight-for-living/
Dr. Walter Martin - https://www.blueletterbible.org/audio_video/martin_walter/
Dr. Ben Haden - http://changedlives.org/WHY
Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost - http://www.dts.edu/read/dr-dwight-pentecost-dies-age-99/


As well as the Pastors of Churches that I attended; Pastor Neil Berry and Pastor Gordan Broadbent especially.
That is a good group of men, especially Chuck Swindoll that I feel have a very good handle on the gospel of Jesus Christ.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,463
113
Anaheim, Cali.
WOW, and that did not mess with your brain? Some of them are pure false teachers where I come from, namely Jimmy Swaggart and N. V. Peal.

Hear are my major Teachers, all cut from the same bolt of Theological Cloth.

The Bible teachers that have had the most influence on my spiritual growth are:


Dr. John MacArthur, Jr. - http://www.gty.org/ sermons dating back to the early 70s - free to listen to.
Dr. Adrian Rogers - http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/love-worth-finding/
Dr. Charles Stanley - http://www.intouch.org/
Dr. Richard Lee - http://www.firstredeemer.org/
Dr. Zola Levitt - http://www.levitt.tv/media/watch/118 - some free - videos
Dr. Ed Young - http://www.winningwalk.org/t-bio.aspx
Dr. Gil Rugh - http://www.ihcc.org/ - free sermons dating back to the late 70s - free
Dr. Chuck Swindoll - http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/insight-for-living/
Dr. Walter Martin - https://www.blueletterbible.org/audio_video/martin_walter/
Dr. Ben Haden - http://changedlives.org/WHY
Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost - http://www.dts.edu/read/dr-dwight-pentecost-dies-age-99/


As well as the Pastors of Churches that I attended; Pastor Neil Berry and Pastor Gordan Broadbent especially.
Peal esp. made me angry. But I got insight, not into the bible but how the minds of how folks that believe fals teachings work. I only submit to the New Testament. I learn from both. The rest are just books to me. Dr. Martins expose' of cults like LDS was interesting and would be useful if I specialized in rescuing cult members. It did inform me how cults work and how they use 'chanting prayers' like rosary beads to disable their victims minds .though.

I studied w/Dr. Martin at Melodyland C.C.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Vice versa?

Does that mean . . . if your gospel is only 50% incorrect then it is a 100% false gospel? I cain't hep it, sometime you just make me LOL.
Another word for "Vice-versa", would be "right back at ya". You and TT have the same problem that he is accusing me of. We all have the same problem. Our gospels only line up with around 60-70% of what the bible says.

If you think I am wrong, start reading, and analyze every vs in the NT. You will soon see that there are many things in the bible that your church does not necessarily line up with. For instance, read Acts 2:41-47. Compare that description to your church today and see if your church is in line with what the first century church was doing. I have many more examples like this one.

So let's not go around accusing each other of false doctrine and dividing the church. I am not satan as you have implied just because I think being engaged in the Lords great work that he says we should be walking in, is necessary for my salvation, and you don't. Too many scriptures in the NT that exhort us to be engaged in the Lords work to just set aside as false doctrine.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Peal esp. made me angry. But I got insight, not into the bible but how the minds of how folks that believe fals teachings work. I only submit to the New Testament. I learn from both. The rest are just books to me. Dr. Martins expose' of cults like LDS was interesting and would be useful if I specialized in rescuing cult members. It did inform me how cults work and how they use 'chanting prayers' like rosary beads to disable their victims minds .though.

I studied w/Dr. Martin at Melodyland C.C.
Well, I am glad that you are studied up on cult practices.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,463
113
Anaheim, Cali.
Another word for "Vice-versa", would be "right back at ya". You and TT have the same problem that he is accusing me of. We all have the same problem. Our gospels only line up with around 60-70% of what the bible says.

If you think I am wrong, start reading, and analyze every vs in the NT. You will soon see that there are many things in the bible that your church does not necessarily line up with. For instance, read Acts 2:41-47. Compare that description to your church today and see if your church is in line with what the first century church was doing. I have many more examples like this one.

So let's not go around accusing each other of false doctrine and dividing the church. I am not satan as you have implied just because I think being engaged in the Lords great work that he says we should be walking in, is necessary for my salvation, and you don't. Too many scriptures in the NT that exhort us to be engaged in the Lords work to just set aside as false doctrine.
Paragraph 2! Every verse in the New Testament is not to be separated and studied by itself. That's called pray reading. The RCC in particular specializes in it. Bits & pieces can be arranged in any way that suits the teacher to enforce doctrines and doctrines that are contrary to the message. Judas went and hanged himself, go ye and do likewise is an old joke about it. I've know of Christian cults that closed their eyes and prayed for the verse of the day, opened the bible and memorized what ever verse their fingers landed upon. HOGWASH! pure hogwash. Jesus didn't teach one verse at a time. In fact the numbers were only added as study aids. He spoke as a man speaks to others, like we do. The letters were letters and meant to be read that way not first read this verse, stop and go over there and read that. No that can easily be twisted to mean lots of things that the word does not teach in its entirety.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
9,407
5,809
113
Another word for "Vice-versa", would be "right back at ya". You and TT have the same problem that he is accusing me of. We all have the same problem. Our gospels only line up with around 60-70% of what the bible says.

If you think I am wrong, start reading, and analyze every vs in the NT. You will soon see that there are many things in the bible that your church does not necessarily line up with. For instance, read Acts 2:41-47. Compare that description to your church today and see if your church is in line with what the first century church was doing. I have many more examples like this one.

So let's not go around accusing each other of false doctrine and dividing the church. I am not satan as you have implied just because I think being engaged in the Lords great work that he says we should be walking in, is necessary for my salvation, and you don't. Too many scriptures in the NT that exhort us to be engaged in the Lords work to just set aside as false doctrine.

For those reading this man's post and are perhaps confused as to why people are opposed to what he is saying, as it may sound reasonable to them, understand just how utterly offensive it is to God when people try and "help" or "be engaged" or perhaps a better term would be co-savior in aiding the work done by Jesus for our redemption.

The confusing aspect is that of course we are to be fully engaged in the work that our Lord has prepared for us to do. The deceitfulness lies in the idea that those works can add one speck to our Salvation and the finished work of Christ.

Here is God watching His Son be spat upon, cursed at, scourged to the bone, nailed to a piece of wood on a hill HE CREATED, by wicked beings HE CREATED, resulting in unspeakable torture, and worst of all, having EVERY sin put on Him, so that He can't even look at His Son, till He dies for us.
The Father thinks of His Son praying to Him the night before, so earnestly that he actually sweat Blood, that IF THERE WERE ANY other way to please take it, knowing that His suffering and death IS the ONLY Way.
And we have people unbelievably saying that THEIR works are ALSO necessary for Salvation!!!??


If that isn't trampling the Blood of Christ, I don't know what is.
 
Mar 14, 2011
73,626
16,429
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For those reading this man's post and are perhaps confused as to why people are opposed to what he is saying, as it may sound reasonable to them, understand just how utterly offensive it is to God when people try and "help" or "be engaged" or perhaps a better term would be co-savior in aiding the work done by Jesus for our redemption.

The confusing aspect is that of course we are to be fully engaged in the work that our Lord has prepared for us to do. The deceitfulness lies in the idea that those works can add one speck to our Salvation and the finished work of Christ.

Here is God watching His Son be spat upon, cursed at, scourged to the bone, nailed to a piece of wood on a hill HE CREATED, by wicked beings HE CREATED, resulting in unspeakable torture, and worst of all, having EVERY sin put on Him, so that He can't even look at His Son, till He dies for us.
The Father thinks of His Son praying to Him the night before, so earnestly that he actually sweat Blood, that IF THERE WERE ANY other way to please take it, knowing that His suffering and death IS the ONLY Way.
And we have people unbelievably saying that THEIR works are ALSO necessary for Salvation!!!??


If that isn't trampling the Blood of Christ, I don't know what is.
The fact he said their are thousands of ways to heaven should be enough to scare everyone. What amazes me is it does not scare him.
 

ljs

Member
Jan 13, 2018
306
440
63
For those reading this man's post and are perhaps confused as to why people are opposed to what he is saying, as it may sound reasonable to them, understand just how utterly offensive it is to God when people try and "help" or "be engaged" or perhaps a better term would be co-savior in aiding the work done by Jesus for our redemption.

The confusing aspect is that of course we are to be fully engaged in the work that our Lord has prepared for us to do. The deceitfulness lies in the idea that those works can add one speck to our Salvation and the finished work of Christ.

Here is God watching His Son be spat upon, cursed at, scourged to the bone, nailed to a piece of wood on a hill HE CREATED, by wicked beings HE CREATED, resulting in unspeakable torture, and worst of all, having EVERY sin put on Him, so that He can't even look at His Son, till He dies for us.
The Father thinks of His Son praying to Him the night before, so earnestly that he actually sweat Blood, that IF THERE WERE ANY other way to please take it, knowing that His suffering and death IS the ONLY Way.
And we have people unbelievably saying that THEIR works are ALSO necessary for Salvation!!!??


If that isn't trampling the Blood of Christ, I don't know what is.

what a wonderful post PennEd !!
Amen !!!

Im so thankful that Im trusting in Christ ALONE for my salvation , there is no other way !
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Read my post. I spoke on this verse. Thjis verse did NOT contradict the first 2 verses. It says those who are saved will work.

It says we are a new creation created for good works. Not because we are trying to stay saved, but because we are saved (new creation)

Your so focused on your righteousness, you can;t see anythign else..




There is ONE PATH, Jesus said I AM thE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE, no one comed BUT THROUGH ME

Paul said anyone who teached A DIFFERENT GOSPE is to be accursed.

We are nto talking about sanctification (christian growth) but about justiication (CHristian adoption and forgiveness)
The word used in the scripture that we disagree about is "should". You say it is "will", which would imply doing it, or being compelled to do it. I say it is "should", which would imply we have a choice, which implies that we may not do it and in that case may lose our EL.

So again, here we are at interpretation, and based on our biases we twist the scripture to meet our bias. Now, we should not have a hard time interpreting the word "should", but if you go to 1 of hundreds of translations of the bible, I am sure you will find one to fit your belief. But the KJV fits my belief.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,463
113
Anaheim, Cali.
The fact he said their are thousands of ways to heaven should be enough to scare everyone. What amazes me is it does not scare him.
PSALM 111:10 FEAR OF THE LORD IS THE BEGINNING OF WISDOM; all who follow his precepts have good understanding….
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
what a wonderful post PennEd !!
Amen !!!

Im so thankful that Im trusting in Christ ALONE for my salvation , there is no other way !
A very good post. I'm so thankful that I'm truting in Christ ALONE for my salvation. There is no other way.

But I also trust Christ ALONE, that when he teaches me to follow him and do the kinds of works he did and to bring much fruit into his kingdom, as he has before ordained, that I should walk in these works, that he will bless me with his grace and forgive me of my sins and allow me to have EL with him.

So the combination of trusting in Christ ALONE, and doing what only Christ AlONE has ordained for us to do = EL. There is no other way.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
36,116
13,440
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The fact he said their are thousands of ways to heaven should be enough to scare everyone. What amazes me is it does not scare him.
Ben did not say there were thousands of ways to heaven, though. That is simply how you interpreted what Ben said, when he was talking about the number of gospels promoted in various churches, presumably false.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
PSALM 111:10 FEAR OF THE LORD IS THE BEGINNING OF WISDOM; all who follow his precepts have good understanding….
Exactly calibob. Good scripture, now let us all FEAR THE LORD and FOLLOW HIS PRECEPTS. That is all I have been saying. It is not enough to fear God (trust God), you have to also follow his precepts. The combination of fearing/trusting and following his precepts/doing good works that he before ordained that we should walk in = EL. Thank you, I could not have said it better myself.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Ben did not say there were thousands of ways to heaven, though. That is simply how you interpreted what Ben said, when he was talking about the number of gospels promoted in various churches, presumably false.
You are right Magenta. Lots of false gospels being promoted by our Christian churches. Stay close to the bible and do what God tells you to do and you will be OK, even in a world of confusion.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,463
113
Anaheim, Cali.
Exactly calibob. Good scripture, now let us all FEAR THE LORD and FOLLOW HIS PRECEPTS. That is all I have been saying. It is not enough to fear God (trust God), you have to also follow his precepts. The combination of fearing/trusting and following his precepts/doing good works that he before ordained that we should walk in = EL. Thank you, I could not have said it better myself.
The word fear in English also means respect, which the Gnostics did not by teaching we can be like God through works and holiness.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
36,116
13,440
113
You are right Magenta. Lots of false gospels being promoted by our Christian churches. Stay close to the bible and do what God tells you to do and you will be OK, even in a world of confusion.
Ben, I understand what you said, and also that others disagree with a lot of what you say, and you know that I too have disagreed with you, but I must say that I do admire what I perceive to be a spirit of humility in your posts recently, and also that I hate to see people being misrepresented, whether I generally agree with them or not.
 
Mar 14, 2011
73,626
16,429
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The word used in the scripture that we disagree about is "should". You say it is "will", which would imply doing it, or being compelled to do it. I say it is "should", which would imply we have a choice, which implies that we may not do it and in that case may lose our EL.

So again, here we are at interpretation, and based on our biases we twist the scripture to meet our bias. Now, we should not have a hard time interpreting the word "should", but if you go to 1 of hundreds of translations of the bible, I am sure you will find one to fit your belief. But the KJV fits my belief.
It says we were made new creatures, Not might. You have us being made then destroyed again. You can not make yourself a new creatur, nor can you sustain your life as a new creature.

And remember, you think there is 1000 wys to heaven, so you have major issues anyway.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,259
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Gods plan of salvation is to reconcile the human race back into fellowship with Him so that. "everyone who believes may have eternal life in Him."(John3:14).

That is the "True Gospel" anything less is a counterfeit gospel. Your vice-versa is not true, It is "100% Gospel" or it is no gospel at all.

benhur sometimes you are impossible to understand.

John3:14-16
14)
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15) "that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.16) For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,259
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The Four Spiritual Laws: Hi benhur, these spiritual laws are an excellent resource to memorize for the purpose of evangelizing friends family and people you love.
  1. God loves you:
    1. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life," (John 3:16).
  2. Man is sinful and separated from God.
    1. "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," (Rom. 3:23 ); "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."(Rom. 6:23 ); "But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God," (Isaiah 59:2).
  3. Jesus Christ is God's only provision for man's sin.
    1. "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me" (John 14:6); "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us," (Rom. 5:8).
  4. We must individually receive Jesus as Savior and Lord.
    1. "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name," (John 1:12); "if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved," (Rom. 10:9); "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God," (Eph. 2:8).