Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,251
3,991
113
A very good post. I'm so thankful that I'm truting in Christ ALONE for my salvation. There is no other way.

But I also trust Christ ALONE, that when he teaches me to follow him and do the kinds of works he did and to bring much fruit into his kingdom, as he has before ordained, that I should walk in these works, that he will bless me with his grace and forgive me of my sins and allow me to have EL with him.

So the combination of trusting in Christ ALONE, and doing what only Christ AlONE has ordained for us to do = EL. There is no other way.
BH,

The above is why people are confused or reject what you are trying to convey.
"I trust in Christ alone"
You then walk in these works ordained before hand in order to have EL.

BUT

If you do so, good works, you come across as saying he will bless you with his grace and forgive you of your sins and give you EL.

BH you have already been blessed by his grace.
Your sins have already been forgiven, you do not have to do good works to earn his grace, you do not have to do good works to be forgiven of your sins.

I know your beef is EL and how it can be lost.
It cannot be lost by lack of works, or lots of works.
The truth is that we cannot qualify or quantify the level of works in order to be saved.
If we do so then it's going to be a hard hard walk with God.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
One of those churches is a Christian church . . . 999 are not. There is only one Gospel that saves.
Are you in the one true church? Because what you are saying is only your church saves and so only people in your church will have EL. Not me, or TT or decon, or VCO, or EG, only the people in your church?
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
There is only ONE Gospel unto Salvation. If we want to talk about how we should follow Jesus once we hear that Gospel, respond by believing it and receiving Him, that's fine. So here is THE Gospel succinctly laid out by Paul:

1 Corinthians 15
15 Moreover, brethren, I DECLARE to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by [a]Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have [b]fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.

Now Please read how Paul says we should react to any kind of different gospel:
Galatians 1:8 New King James Version (NKJV)
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach ANY other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be [a]accursed.


I agree you have a pleasant demeanor, however maybe now you can understand why some of us get upset when we see THE Gospel being tainted. Especially with man's works.
I am upset that the gospel is so tainted. I pray to God that I am not tainting the gospel of His Son. I try to follow all of the gospel. Is the bible not full of "do good works" kind of scriptures. Why is if full of "do good works"? If all we had to do was believe in Jesus, the bible would be 20 letters telling the first century church 1 thing: Believe in Jesus and you will be saved. 1 sentence per written letter from the apostles. There has to be more than just believe in Jesus. I believe that is just the starting line, not the end of the race to salvation.

Tell me why the bible is constantly preaching to be a good Christian, full of good works that your Father in Heaven will be glorified?
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
BH,

The above is why people are confused or reject what you are trying to convey.
"I trust in Christ alone"
You then walk in these works ordained before hand in order to have EL.

BUT

If you do so, good works, you come across as saying he will bless you with his grace and forgive you of your sins and give you EL.

BH you have already been blessed by his grace.
Your sins have already been forgiven, you do not have to do good works to earn his grace, you do not have to do good works to be forgiven of your sins.

I know your beef is EL and how it can be lost.
It cannot be lost by lack of works, or lots of works.
The truth is that we cannot qualify or quantify the level of works in order to be saved.
If we do so then it's going to be a hard hard walk with God.
You say EL cannot be lost by lack of works, but what about the works you were saved unto, and the works that Jesus had before ordained you to do, and admonished you that you should walk in those works? What if you don't do those works? Jesus just says, that's OK, come into my kingdom anyway?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,256
4,198
113
Post #667 because I don't like having a post #666.
So you are SUPERSTITIOUS are you. LOL

It is a number that Identifies a SPECIFIC INDIVIDUAL's I.D., NOT the literal number 666, and certainly NOT a formula to come up with a RULER'S NAME, past, present, or future. When all the world's finances is Monitiored by ONE SUPER COMPUTER, it will be Necessary, to Give each individual a separate I.D. Number. More than likely it will be in the form of an ultra tiny Microchip. And that chip's personal I.D. number will be most likely: 6 digits - 6 digits - 6 digits. Every individual will be told to come in for their I.D. chip and no number will be duplicated. NO, it is not NERO, and NO it is not the literal number 666.

Here is what it will be like:

 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
10,170
6,578
113
I am upset that the gospel is so tainted. I pray to God that I am not tainting the gospel of His Son. I try to follow all of the gospel. Is the bible not full of "do good works" kind of scriptures. Why is if full of "do good works"? If all we had to do was believe in Jesus, the bible would be 20 letters telling the first century church 1 thing: Believe in Jesus and you will be saved. 1 sentence per written letter from the apostles. There has to be more than just believe in Jesus. I believe that is just the starting line, not the end of the race to salvation.

Tell me why the bible is constantly preaching to be a good Christian, full of good works that your Father in Heaven will be glorified?
No condescension at all intended, but I feel sad for you. It appears you have not believed the Gospel. You have to BE a Christian BEFORE you can do the good works.

John 3
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should [c]not perish but have eternal life.

Numbers 21
6 So the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and many of the people of Israel died.
7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, “We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord and against you; pray to the Lord that He take away the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed for the people.
8 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived.


Jesus is comparing how WE have to be saved to how they were saved from the fiery serpents. Do you think there were guys who said "You mean all I have to do is look at that pole and I won't die!? There HAS to be more that I have to do to be saved!"
 

ljs

Member
Jan 13, 2018
310
443
63
You say EL cannot be lost by lack of works, but what about the works you were saved unto, and the works that Jesus had before ordained you to do, and admonished you that you should walk in those works? What if you don't do those works? Jesus just says, that's OK, come into my kingdom anyway?

ben , yes we SHOULD do works , and walk in them , but remember we r in the age of grace , where all it takes to be saved is believing.
if a person believes the Gospel , and trusts Jesus for Salvation , but doesnt walk in the works God has planned for them to do , they will lose rewards , and be ashamed when they come face to face with Christ at the Bema seat !
But they will still be saved , because they BELIEVED !!!!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,256
4,198
113
You are right Magenta. Lots of false gospels being promoted by our Christian churches. Stay close to the bible and do what God tells you to do and you will be OK, even in a world of confusion.
And you were saying just a few days ago, that it didn't matter about about our Differences.

You are exhibiting the traits of a deceiver, telling them what they want to hear and later you will switch them to your false gospel.

2 Timothy 3:13 (NKJV)
13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
By the book of acts it wasn't news any more. It was history. I hear what you are saying, I've never heard gospels used this way before. As if something has equal validity of the 4 ORIGINAL gospels.
Sorry calibob, the gospel of Jesus Christ is still "good news' today. Billions have never heard of Jesus, so we send our missionaries out all over the world to bring this "good news' to them, and when many hear it, they give everything they have to embrace it and in some countries it means they even give their lives.

It is still the 'good news' from God that He sent his Son to teach us of the gospel and die for us that if we really believe in the Son of God we will have EL. That is the greatest news ever given to men on earth, and it will be till the end of this earth.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
And you were saying just a few days ago, that it didn't matter about about our Differences.

You are exhibiting the traits of a deceiver, telling them what they want to hear and later you will switch them to your false gospel.

2 Timothy 3:13 (NKJV)
13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.
You must be a bitter, bitter man. I will tell you again, there are thousands of differences between our churches, but if we stay close to the bible and do what God has told us to do, we can call each other brothers and live in peace and prosperity, even in a world of confusion. I do not knowingly lie, nor do I go around knowingly deceiving people. I love you as a brother in the gospel, even though we differ about how we get saved. Some day we will know exactly how we get saved.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
ben , yes we SHOULD do works , and walk in them , but remember we r in the age of grace , where all it takes to be saved is believing.
if a person believes the Gospel , and trusts Jesus for Salvation , but doesnt walk in the works God has planned for them to do , they will lose rewards , and be ashamed when they come face to face with Christ at the Bema seat !
But they will still be saved , because they BELIEVED !!!!
OK, is EL somehow divided into reward levels of some sort. If you recieve the highest awards possible, you go to the highest levels of heaven. And if you recieve the lowest awards or no rewards possible, you go to the lower levels of heaven. And if you earn some rewards, but not the highest, you go to a sort of middle levels of heaven. Is that how the rewards program works?

IOW what do you receive for the most rewards, the nex most rewards, down to no rewards?
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,260
113
I agree if you are adding works to gain, embellish or keep salvation, you are treading on thin ice. However, if Jesus wants you to be engaged in good works that he before ordained you to and that you should walk in them, then I do the works he has prepared for me.

Do you do the works Jesus has before prepared for you, or are you so stuck on "no works in any form" that you miss what your Saviour wants you to do?
Decon is enroute, on the way home from Australia, the post below will explain.

You all hold the fort down for me....be boarding QF 9 from Sydney to Dallas in about 35 min....15 hour flight from Sydney to Dallas and then 1.5 or so from Dallas to St. Louis......will be out of sorts for at least 16 hours or so.....keep swinging and keep preaching the one true way...by grace through faith with no strings, works, hoop jumping needed for biblical salvation haha
Quote benhur: "no works in any form", the issue is, "works to keep yourself saved." remember you think God will, "cut you off" and cast you away, which is not true. The works Christians produce after they are saved is evidence that they are saved it is not works that keep their salvation secure.

God's love of His Children is not based on performance.

God bless!
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works" (II Corinthians 11:14-15).

I bet they are even 'pleasant.'
Wow, there you go with satan again. I will admit I am not a perfect man, but am I near the status of satan, because I teach people to be engaged in the work of Jesus Christ and to produce fruit for his kingdom? How did I ever get so on your bad side?
 

ljs

Member
Jan 13, 2018
310
443
63
OK, is EL somehow divided into reward levels of some sort. If you recieve the highest awards possible, you go to the highest levels of heaven. And if you recieve the lowest awards or no rewards possible, you go to the lower levels of heaven. And if you earn some rewards, but not the highest, you go to a sort of middle levels of heaven. Is that how the rewards program works?

IOW what do you receive for the most rewards, the nex most rewards, down to no rewards?
Eternal life is granted on what we BELIEVE ben , and yes I think thats how the rewards program will work
Some will stand before Christ ashamed because they have nothing to place before him ( no works ) but they will still be saved
 

BaptistBibleBeliever

Well-known member
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
1,032
113
68
Illinois
Wow, there you go with satan again. I will admit I am not a perfect man, but am I near the status of satan, because I teach people to be engaged in the work of Jesus Christ and to produce fruit for his kingdom? How did I ever get so on your bad side?
Nah, just one of his minions . . .
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Decon is enroute, on the way home from Australia, the post below will explain.



Quote benhur: "no works in any form", the issue is, "works to keep yourself saved." remember you think God will, "cut you off" and cast you away, which is not true. The works Christians produce after they are saved is evidence that they are saved it is not works that keep their salvation secure.

God's love of His Children is not based on performance.

God bless!
John 15:2 says that God will cut off every branch of the vine of Jesus that is not producing fruit. You can analyze that statement as long as you wish, but it is such a straight-forward statement, that any honest person looking for the truth and will not twist the words to fit their belief system, will find the truth.

You say that God love for His Children is not based on performance. I beg to differ. The entire nation of Israel was chopped off because they did not do what He commanded them to do, and he loved them more than any people on the earth. But they rejected him and so he rejected them.

It does not matter what age you are in, if you do not do what the Lord God has asked you to do you will be cut off of his true vine. Do not be deceived, God loves all his children, all of them, with a love that we cannot even begin to comprehend, but only those that do what he says will have EL and that will be very few compared to all of His Children.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,260
113
Wow, there you go with satan again. I will admit I am not a perfect man, but am I near the status of satan, because I teach people to be engaged in the work of Jesus Christ and to produce fruit for his kingdom? How did I ever get so on your bad side?
Tell the truth benhur

You say quote: "I teach people to be engaged in the work of Jesus Christ and to produce fruit for his kingdom?" Really, you teach people that if they do not produce fruit, God will, "cut them off", from the vine."

Why do you try to hide the fact that you believe a Born Again Christian will, "lose his Eternal Salvation", if he does not perform and produce fruit.

Producing fruit/works is evidence that they are Christian, it does not keep them saved You are not being truthful and you are hiding your true agenda. Why do you hide what you really mean.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Eternal life is granted on what we BELIEVE ben , and yes I think thats how the rewards program will work
Some will stand before Christ ashamed because they have nothing to place before him ( no works ) but they will still be saved
So you believe that those who got the highest rewards will find themselves nearer God and Jesus Christ, and those that did lesser and lesser and finally none, will find that their distance from God and Jesus Christ will be further and further away. Something like this?
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,260
113
I'm a minion of satan because I tell people to be engaged in the great work of Jesus Christ? You must be a sick man.
You tell people they will lose their Eternal Salvation. if they do not produce fruit, that is your real agenda.

We are saved by grace, "not by works", you are boasting benhur