Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,367
113
Here is one of your "you" statements... it looks like a false accusation to me, as well. That is a sin. According to you, if someone sins, the Holy Spirit is not living in them.
I know it is hilariously sad.....the very people that push works, sinless perfection, Phariseeism and or Cainology ALL regularly sin, break the law, use deceit, twist and embellish what we say etc............it really does make one shake their head in disbelief at the utter inability to see the fallacy of their argument and the fact that they are as deep in sin as anyone ever has been........
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,367
113
Well.......chunked and stacked about a half a cord of wood into the wood shed, helped a neighbor hang a door, and some insulation, installed a door knob and two dead bolts for him (not because I need works to remain saved) and had breakfast/lunch at 2 pm.....and now after a shower.....some tea, cc and news.......

Good to see the sword swinging by my brothers and sisters in Christ........

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he saved us.

ALL past tense........we have been saved according to his mercy, by grace through faith..........no works attached to gain, keep or top off salvation.
 

UserX18

New member
Oct 5, 2018
19
5
3
I need Christ????
You need Christ- I’m saying this, to those who do not believe a MAN can bee perfect. You who say a mortal can not bee perfect is anti-christ. Jesus Christ was in mortal form. But walked after the spirit. All-anti-christs here, who deceive those that wants to be saved. Don’t worry. Time will Tell.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,970
4,074
113
Your MISTAKE, is you do not understand that POSITIONALLY HE sees us WASHED IN HIS BLOOD, and therefore our Human Spirit is HOLY after it is BORN AGAIN, but we DO LIVE IN A MORTAL WORLD with a SIN NATURE THAT IS INHERITED FROM ADAM. Our sin nature will be with us the rest of our MORTAL LIFE, and will NOT BE MADE PERFECT, until HE gives us a Glorified, Sinless Body at the Resurrection.

That is EXACTLY WHY PAUL WROTE IN, Rom. 7:13-25. You are STILL A SINNER on the outside, even though your HUMAN SPIRIT has been Washed in the BLOOD of the LAMB; every sin your Mortal Flesh commits your Human Spirit WILL WANT TO CONFESS IT TO HIM.

1 John 1:9 (NKJV)
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

homologeō is the GREEK WORD for we confess and it has one of the Greek Tenses that we do not have in ENGLISH, it means it is a CONTINUOUS ACTION for the rest of our lives, the Greek Perfect Tense. Which means we by our NEW NATURE will confess every new sin that you find in yourself, as long as you live. If you are not in the habit of doing so, YOU ARE SINNING.

Our human spirit the moment it was BORN AGAIN, was SEEN by GOD through the Blood of Jesus, which means it is IMMORTAL and HOLY.

Our physical Human Flesh has a SIN NATURE IN IT, that we cannot get rid of until we get a NEW GLORIFIED BODY. As the Human Spirit in HEART of MAN will Mature by taking in the WORD, and the more you take in, the FASTER IT WILL GROW. It will become dominant over the Mind of the Flesh (what lies between your ears), so that as your spirit matures: You will Sin LESS, and LESS, and LESS. That is Spiritual Growth. But INSTANTLY becoming Holy in the FLESH, is a FIGMENT of your IMAGINATION, and the product of a FALSE TEACHER.

1 John 2:4 (NKJV)
4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

AGAIN YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE TENSE OF THE WORD keep EFFECTS THE MEANING OF THE SENTENCE.

It is NOT SAYING THAT MORTAL MAN CAN BE PERFECT, but rather: does not strive to keep His commandments. That Greek Perfect Tense Verb and I repeat, does not imply that man can be perfect, but his dominant characteristic will be to ALWAYS STRIVE TO KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS AFTER SALVATION.

Please Come to the Knowledge of the TRUTH.
I forgot to tell you, while KEEP does not imply perfection, IT DEFINES THE DIRECTION OF OUR WALK IN CHRIST.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,367
113
You need Christ- I’m saying this, to those who do not believe a MAN can bee perfect. You who say a mortal can not bee perfect is anti-christ. Jesus Christ was in mortal form. But walked after the spirit. All-anti-christs here, who deceive those that wants to be saved. Don’t worry. Time will Tell.
Book, chapter and verse of the bolded, underlined statement or be found false and a liar to boot.....
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,725
4,517
113
I know it is hilariously sad.....the very people that push works, sinless perfection, Phariseeism and or Cainology ALL regularly sin, break the law, use deceit, twist and embellish what we say etc............it really does make one shake their head in disbelief at the utter inability to see the fallacy of their argument and the fact that they are as deep in sin as anyone ever has been........
it just seems to me that some so-called Christians have no value for truth and honesty .

it seems as if the worldly attitude of " if I really strongly feel like something is true, then it is true" has infected many who say they follow Christ.

really, strongly feeling like one does not sin does NOT make one sinless.

the Biblical standards set forth determine if one sins or not. not ones opinion of one's self.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,970
4,074
113
You need Christ- I’m saying this, to those who do not believe a MAN can bee perfect. You who say a mortal can not bee perfect is anti-christ. Jesus Christ was in mortal form. But walked after the spirit. All-anti-christs here, who deceive those that wants to be saved. Don’t worry. Time will Tell.

UserX18, does that 18 mean you are 18 years of ago. You have a lot of growing to do, either way.

Most of those here are genuine Born Again Christians, they have proven it by their LOVE.

You on the other hand appear to be the product of a FALSE TEACHER, and time will tell if you are one.

Please come to the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
36,198
13,501
113
You need Christ- I’m saying this, to those who do not believe a MAN can bee perfect. You who say a mortal can not bee perfect is anti-christ. Jesus Christ was in mortal form. But walked after the spirit. All-anti-christs here, who deceive those that wants to be saved. Don’t worry. Time will Tell.
To be perfect does not mean what you seem to imply. Perfect in the sense of being complete in God: we find our fullness/wholeness in Him alone.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
36,198
13,501
113
A lot more "you" statements from you, there. Are you really going to deny you are making "you" statements? And then bitterly complain when others make you statements to you? Your moral outrage is misdirected. Perhaps a mirror would help.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
399
83
Salvation is not by works, neither can it be perfected by works,

As a proof that the spirit of God LIVES in you, you’ll bear fruits of righteousness.. that cannot be simple for you i know..

In revelation where JEsus saays he’ll take out the light. I know that is nott simplee enough for you either.

The examples i listed, Saul, Ananias, Gauis, and you, if you were ever saved.

Just because I put the worrdd of God without corruption, it hurts you?

Without holiness, you cannot enter the kingdom of heeaavven.
Now christ gave us pure hearts, if you still sin, how is your heart pure?

Where is the sin cooming from?
Are you walking after the flesh, or after the spirit. Please answer...

You don’t want to agree with the word of God, because your father, the devil, has held you in sin, and you refused to healed of his grace.

It is evident, that you want to coontend.. when the bible is lear. ✌🏿
I suggest you rethink the place of works. Works (deeds) doesn't save but no works means no faith.

James 2 NIV
Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.
19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. 20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
 

UserX18

New member
Oct 5, 2018
19
5
3
Book, chapter and verse of the bolded, underlined statement or be found false and a liar to boot.....
I know you’ll not understand itt, also I’m not saying to you prove I’m not a liar. I repeat, this is not about mee, it’s about God’s word☺️

1 John 2:22 (KJV)
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.


1 John 4:3 (KJV)
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7 (KJV)
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

So Jesus was in mortall form and did not sinn.

Deep down in your soul, you’ll deny this, because ye are anti-christs. I suppose it is not yet manifest to some of you.



2 Corinthians 4:11 (KJV)
For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

Now if you sin, is the life of Jesus made manifest in you?


1 Peter 2:21-24 (KJV)
For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

So are you living unto righteousness or unto sin?

Hebrews 5:7-9 (KJV)
Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

So you disobey him and expect salvation, and grace to be upon you?
God forbid.

Shall we continue in sin and expect the grace of God to abound? God forbid!!

Finally..
Romans 5:21 (KJV)
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Grace reigns through RIGHTEOUSNESS not UNRIGHTEOUSNESS unto Eternal life.

Anti-Christs will deny this, and twist this, and interpret this, in ways that gives them the grace of the devil.

After all these, Anti-Christs, will still preach against Christ, for it is their duty..

ANTI-Christ..
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
You need Christ- I’m saying this, to those who do not believe a MAN can bee perfect. You who say a mortal can not bee perfect is anti-christ. Jesus Christ was in mortal form. But walked after the spirit. All-anti-christs here, who deceive those that wants to be saved. Don’t worry. Time will Tell.

o_Oo_Oo_O

Who taught you this? I really want to know. So not the gospel at all.:(
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,367
113
it just seems to me that some so-called Christians have no value for truth and honesty .

it seems as if the worldly attitude of " if I really strongly feel like something is true, then it is true" has infected many who say they follow Christ.

really, strongly feeling like one does not sin does NOT make one sinless.

the Biblical standards set forth determine if one sins or not. not ones opinion of one's self.
Fully agree...........most shoot from the hip....the first time i ever dealt with a sinless perfectionist was in 1990...at Mc Donalds on Geyer Springs Road in Little Rock, Arkansas....he was sitting there marking out ALL verses that deal with sin and finally I asked him WHY he was marking them out.....He said, "Because I no longer sin"......I said excuse me, and it was on..........

I cannot believe how many flat miss, deny, reject, overlook, twist, embellish the following truths......

a. The spirit that has been born again from above by faith and the Holy Spirit has been born of incorrutible SEED and DOES NOT SIN, is ETERNALLY secure in Christ, saved, sealed, justified and sanctified POSITIONALLY in CHRIST

b. SAID SPIRIT ABOVE is still HOUSED in a fallen, sinful, dead body of flesh that is prone to sin, not subject unto the word of GOD neither indeed can be.

c. THE battle ground for control of the above "A or B" is the MIND which NEEDS a transformational process....the same process described in ROMANS 12:1-2.....the more ONE studies and APPLIES the word the greater the CHANGE outwardly to "B" because the GROWTH and MATURITY of "A" which ALLOWS for one to SIN LESS in "B"

D. "A" is eternally secure and NOT subject to LOSS or CORRUPTION because it is BORN of GOD ETERNALLY and BY INCORRUPTIBLE SEED, HOWEVER....the REWARD of a child of GOD is determined by the WHOLE PROCESS ABOVE......IF a BELIEVER is transformed, more faithful and grows in their walk for the LORD their reward will BE GREATER....if they are stunted in their growth, as not as faithful and SIN MORE often than NOT their reward will be LESS than it can be....even to the extent that they are saved SO AS BY FIRE with not much if any reward in the KINGDOM of GOD!

THE ABOVE is the truth! Regardless of any and all who reject it or deny it!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,367
113
I know you’ll not understand itt, also I’m not saying to you prove I’m not a liar. I repeat, this is not about mee, it’s about God’s word☺️

1 John 2:22 (KJV)
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.


1 John 4:3 (KJV)
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7 (KJV)
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

So Jesus was in mortall form and did not sinn.

Deep down in your soul, you’ll deny this, because ye are anti-christs. I suppose it is not yet manifest to some of you.



2 Corinthians 4:11 (KJV)
For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

Now if you sin, is the life of Jesus made manifest in you?


1 Peter 2:21-24 (KJV)
For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

So are you living unto righteousness or unto sin?

Hebrews 5:7-9 (KJV)
Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

So you disobey him and expect salvation, and grace to be upon you?
God forbid.

Shall we continue in sin and expect the grace of God to abound? God forbid!!

Finally..
Romans 5:21 (KJV)
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Grace reigns through RIGHTEOUSNESS not UNRIGHTEOUSNESS unto Eternal life.

Anti-Christs will deny this, and twist this, and interpret this, in ways that gives them the grace of the devil.

After all these, Anti-Christs, will still preach against Christ, for it is their duty..

ANTI-Christ..
BOOK CHAPTER AND VERSE which proves your false statement below...the ABOVE does not say what YOU implied........your words are not found in the bible

UserX18 said:
You who say a mortal can not bee perfect is anti-christ
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,508
10,246
113
55
Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness (1 John 1:8-10).
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,636
9,310
113
Faith in, and belief on Jesus, accompanied by His grace and our acceptance of it is what saves us..

Good works are a by-product of salvation. They come as a result of it.. HOWEVER, good works have NO bearing whatsoever on keeping or maintaining our salvation..
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,367
113
Faith in, and belief on Jesus, accompanied by His grace and our acceptance of it is what saves us..

Good works are a by-product of salvation. They come as a result of it.. HOWEVER, good works have NO bearing whatsoever on keeping or maintaining our salvation..
AMEN Blue.......so true........
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,970
4,074
113
. . .
Yes we were sinners, have we being washed? Yes.. now do i go back too lying, . . .

Your MISTAKE, is you do not understand that POSITIONALLY HE sees us WASHED IN HIS BLOOD, and therefore our Human Spirit is HOLY after it is BORN AGAIN, but we DO LIVE IN A MORTAL WORLD with a SIN NATURE THAT IS INHERITED FROM ADAM. Our sin nature will be with us the rest of our MORTAL LIFE, and will NOT BE MADE PERFECT, until HE gives us a Glorified, Sinless Body at the Resurrection.

That is EXACTLY WHY PAUL WROTE IN, Rom. 7:13-25. You are STILL A SINNER on the outside, even though your HUMAN SPIRIT has been Washed in the BLOOD of the LAMB; every sin your Mortal Flesh commits your Human Spirit WILL WANT TO CONFESS IT TO HIM.

1 John 1:9 (NKJV)
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

homologeō is the GREEK WORD for we confess and it has one of the Greek Tenses that we do not have in ENGLISH, it means it is an CONTINUOUS ACTION for the rest of our lives, the Greek Perfect Tense. Which means we by our NEW NATURE will confess every new sin that you find in yourself, as long as you live. If you are not in the habit of doing so, YOU ARE SINNING.

Our human spirit the moment it was BORN AGAIN, was SEEN by GOD through the Blood of Jesus, which means it is IMMORTAL and HOLY.

Our physical Human Flesh has a SIN NATURE IN IT, that we cannot get rid of until we get a NEW GLORIFIED BODY. As the Human Spirit in HEART of MAN will Mature by taking in the WORD, and the more you take in, the FASTER IT WILL GROW. It will become dominant over the Mind of the Flesh (what lies between your ears), so that as your spirit matures: You will Sin LESS, and LESS, and Less. That is Spiritual Growth. But INSTANTLY becoming Holy in FLESH, is a FIGMENT of your IMAGINATION, and the product of a FALSE TEACHER.

1 John 2:4 (NKJV)
4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Please Come to the Knowledge of the TRUTH.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,970
4,074
113
Hypocrites and Pharisees..
So where is your LOVE?


By the way, OBEDIENCE IS NOT PART OF SALVATION,

IT IS PART OF YOUR LOVE, that GOD PUT IN YOU, Rom. 5:5.

IF YOU ARE BORN AGAIN, that is.