Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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This no works spin is a new age religion thing ... since the 1960's......to wedge against those who want to do G-d's work as He would have us to do.
HAHAHAHHAHAHA this view falls short of credible and is a non-starter.......actually the bible is what negates works as any part of gaining or keeping salvation which is based upon faith and faith alone.....
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
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And the whole works as part of gaining or keeping salvation before God started with the first false teacher named CAIN and is still going strong today....ASK the MANY who think they know the LORD and have right to enter based upon their works in the name of JESUS......
Can we say CATHOLIC?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Yes I missed someone, mailmandan, and cailbob, sorry.
SweetStars I also fogot that posthuman is another believer in our Eternal Security in Christ. So you can see Most of us do not believe that truly Born Again believers cannot lose their Salvation.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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By the way....I got my book loaded in my blog finally...took three hours of cutting, pasting, editing etc. into individual posts in order to post.......wow.....haha
 
Feb 28, 2016
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not following all of the posts brothers and sisters, but,
did DC apologize to me for 'falsely' ACCUSING me???

just curious, because he has to know how much we LOVE HIM?
:):)
 
Dec 12, 2013
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not following all of the posts brothers and sisters, but,
did DC apologize to me for 'falsely' ACCUSING me???

just curious, because he has to know how much we LOVE HIM?
:):)
I never accused you....that post was aimed at someone else and do not know why you were copied in it......
 

SweetStars

Active member
Oct 6, 2018
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I though this was clear in Ephesians 2:9 "9 Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.] ".

Our "good deeds", our "justice" fall short to God's goodness, righteousness and justice. It is not by works but by grace so that we do not think of ourselves as "righteous" when in reality we are all sinner that have been forgiven by mercy and grace. Don't get me wrong i'm not saying that once you receive God you can do whatever you want just because you can't lose your salvation, because if you live as your old self and do not feel happiness or joy by doing God's will, i do not think you are even safe (i don't think you have truly receive Christ), yes we do fall and fail from time to time, but is different to decide to live in sin than to fall or stumble from time to time. And if Jesus Christ our Master who was perfect did not accept to be called good, how can we think of ourselves as good?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I though this was clear in Ephesians 2:9 "9 Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.] ".

Our "good deeds", our "justice" fall short to God's goodness, righteousness and justice. It is not by works but by grace so that we do not think of ourselves as "righteous" when in reality we are all sinner that have been forgiven by mercy and grace. Don't get me wrong i'm not saying that once you receive God you can do whatever you want just because you can't lose your salvation, because if you live as your old self and do not feel happiness or joy by doing God's will, i do not think you are even safe (i don't think you have truly receive Christ), yes we do fall and fail from time to time, but is different to decide to live in sin than to fall or stumble from time to time. And if Jesus Christ our Master who was perfect did not accept to be called good, how can we think of ourselves as good?
Salvation is secure always.....beyond that the ability to gain or lose reward is based upon the level of our faithfulness and or works which we have or have not done.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Had a good study today of Psalm 19 and Romans 1........Humanity is without excuse because day unto day and night unto night sets forth the knowledge of God and there is NO voice on the planet that is beyond the reach of understanding the power of God and God head because even the invisible things of GOD testifies unto humanity...........
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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I though this was clear in Ephesians 2:9 "9 Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.] ".

Our "good deeds", our "justice" fall short to God's goodness, righteousness and justice. It is not by works but by grace so that we do not think of ourselves as "righteous" when in reality we are all sinner that have been forgiven by mercy and grace. Don't get me wrong i'm not saying that once you receive God you can do whatever you want just because you can't lose your salvation, because if you live as your old self and do not feel happiness or joy by doing God's will, i do not think you are even safe (i don't think you have truly receive Christ), yes we do fall and fail from time to time, but is different to decide to live in sin than to fall or stumble from time to time. And if Jesus Christ our Master who was perfect did not accept to be called good, how can we think of ourselves as good?

Amen! We get one on rare occasions, that thinks he does not sin. If you haven't bumped in them before, stick around, ever once in awhile, we get one that THINKS He is Sinless. We just had one that all of us tried to get through to him, but he kept insisting that he was Sinless. I think he left just before you joined called UserX18. Here is one post, where I tried to convince him that he was a Sinner: #73,393 on page 3670. I guess he finally left, as he posted only a bunch of crying smiley faces.

Yes we get a few that want to believe we can Lose our Salvation, and a few that want to insist that works are part of Salvation, but they are in the minority. However, on rare occasions, a Psuedo-christian cult member tries to join, but for the most part, they usually get banned before long, thanks to Management.

My personal views is that when we are Born Again, three main things happen that very first day that we Genuinely begin to BELIEVE.

1. Our Human Spirit is Birthed into Eternal Life as the Holy Spirit takes up residence in the Believer. The would include a spiritual mind in our Heart, that is in tune with the Will of GOD. As you feed your human spirit on the WORD of GOD, it will start to grow, and will become dominant of the Mind of the Flesh (between our ears), as it matures. (John 3:6, 1 Cor. 2:13, 1 Pet. 2:4-5, Php. 3:14-15)

2. The HOLY SPIRIT will pour GOD's LOVE, directly into the good soil in Hearts. GOD's LOVE is like a seed in that good soil, and it will produce the same kind of LOVE FOR HIM, and our Brethren. That LOVE for HIM is where our Obedience comes From, and we receive JESUS CHRIST as LORD, meaning Master. (Rom. 5:5, John 1:12, Col. 2:6, Rom. 10:9, 1 John 3:14-19)

3. The Holy Spirit immerses (baptizes) US into the Spiritual Body of CHRIST, where HE IS THE HEAD, and we are the Members, and He will be in US. (1 Cor. 12:13, John 14:20, John 15:4, John 14:16-18)


YES, I believe our human spirit, once it is Born Again, is capable of THINKING too. It is in tune with the Will of GOD. Now the trick is to get our bodies (mind of the Flesh) to cooperate. We will become more and more like CHRIST as our human spirit matures, but our bodies will not be Perfect, until it is changed into the Glorified Body during the Resurrection. YES, Salvation is a Free Gift of God, the first day we became a true BELIEVER, however, Sanctification is a growing process, where we learn to walk, more and more like Christ every day.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Bump for the workers for....

I was wondering when the workers for, Pharisees and Cainologists were going to come out with their own bible......notice the following possible embellishments based upon what they believe and their their own words....

For by self effort have you been saved through works, and that of yourselves, it is a debt owed and of works so that any man may boast

For by works of righteousness which we have done, and not according to his mercy has he saved us

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever works for him, should not perish, but have everlasting life as long as he keeps working.

He that worketh for the SON is having eternal life as long as he keeps working

He that works for the Son is not condemned, but is having everlasting life as long as he does many wonderful works

*DISCLAIMER* The above representations are not found in scripture and are the exact opposite of what the bible teaches and quite possibly represent the views of those who believe we must embellish faith with works to gain and or keep salvation/eternal life. for
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Amen Brother Bill, you could not have made it more clear than what you are saying here.

Quote BillG: "in order to glorify the father, 'not to glorify ourselves' before the Father."

Isaiah45:22 "Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.

Not By Works-Not By Works-Not By Works-Not By Works-Not By Works-Not By Works-Not By Works-Not By works Not By Works-Not By Works-Not By Works-Not By Works-Not By Works-Not By Works-Not By Works-Not By Works Not By Works-Not By Works-Not By Works-Not By Works-Not By Works-Not By Works-Not By Works-Not By Works
There is a relationship between faith and works! James 2 states the relationship!
Faith produces works!
No faith no works!

James 2 NIV

Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.
19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. 20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
Vengeance is GOD'S, not ours.. If you end up in hell, it'll be your own dang fault..
Psalm 6:1 King James Version (KJV). 6 O Lord, rebuke me not in thine anger, neither chasten me in thy hot displeasure.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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There is a relationship between faith and works! James 2 states the relationship!
Faith produces works!
No faith no works!
Faith in Christ is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root.

James 2 NIV

Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.
19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. 20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no resulting evidential works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

In James 2:16, 17, 20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was justified by works. He was "shown to be righteous."

In James 2:22, faith made complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

In James 2:25, Rahab believed in the Lord with authentic faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her authentic faith. She showed that her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all genuine believers show theirs.

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).

So man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-26).

Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony* :)