Not By Works

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gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Nice twist....answer my points or do not address me again.....and again you embellish the word to your own demise by adding a word to the text...."mans"

You have NO HONESTY and or ability to be truthful........exactly why many no longer address you
the main reason I no longer address studyman is this- he does not think Jesus was fully divine and human on earth. that nullifies all of his theology.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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In regards to Matthew 7:21-23, I'll never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I read Matthew 7:22 and thought to myself, wow! These many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be "good enough?" Such is the mindset of someone who believes that salvation is based on works.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was stained with sin. Religious, but not right with God. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people in Matthew 7:22 were not true converts.

Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh. This is why Jesus referred to them as WORKERS OF INIQUITY/LAWLESSNESS! Descriptive of the lost.
Hi Mailmandan, wonderful post and praise God for helping you find the "Truth" and the courage to act upon that truth. My dads family were mostly Roman Catholic, but I was "born again" and raised in a non-denomination conservative evangelical Church. I have 2 cousins that left the RCC....:)
 
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a
This is where believing in eternal security gets many persons...on their way away from God.
If you enjoy sin, there's something wrong...
I'm going to take a wild guess and suggest that my point zoomed right over your head. All unrighteousness is sin, in fact, anything we do that is less than perfect is sin. Also, not doing what you know to be right is also a sin. I merely admit to being a human, or, in other words a sinner saved by grace.

We often, including you, find ourselves doing things that we know we shouldn't but we do them any way because they please us. And we do them until God corrects us with His chastisement. It may be that we suddenly find that heaven is silent to us and we know that we have broken fellowship with God. We decide that it is much better to walk with Him than against Him.

I trust that you are not interpreting my 'enjoyment' of sin as something heinous like adultery, drunkenness or some other gross sin. I'm using more of watching television programs that do not please God, but I get a kick out of them . . . for a season.

Does that clear things up for you, my judge?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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benhur said: No fake branch is on the true vine.



Matthew 7:20-23 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you!
[born again] Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

John 15:5-7 (NKJV)
5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, {born again} bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
6 If anyone does not abide in Me
{unsaved church-goers}, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.


John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them [born again], and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.


Mark 4:14-19 (NKJV)
14 The sower sows the word.
15 And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts.
- [ unsaved unbeliever ]
16 These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
17 and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word's sake, immediately they stumble.
- [ unsaved church-goer ]
18 Now these are the ones sown among thorns; they are the ones who hear the word,
19 and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
- [ unsaved church-goer ]

Mark 4:20 (NKJV)
20 But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred." = { BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS - NO 0% FRUIT }

Matthew 25:1-13 (NKJV)
1 "Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.
2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them,
4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight a cry was heard: 'Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!'
7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'
9 But the wise answered, saying, 'No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.'
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.
11 Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open to us!'
12 But he answered and said, 'Assuredly, I say to you,
I do not know you.' = [ Born Again ]
13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

NO ONE Without being READY AT THE TIME HE RETURNS FOR HIS BRIDE, will be taken to heaven, no matter how many times they went to Church. They HAVE TO BE READY AND EXPECTING THE BRIDEGROOM.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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the main reason I no longer address studyman is this- he does not think Jesus was fully divine and human on earth. that nullifies all of his theology.
I agree.......pretty much done with his tap dancing drivel....
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,070
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i disagree with your guess work

but your out of context OT verse means nothing in regards to the conversation 🤔


8104. shamar
Strong's Concordance​
shamar: to keep, watch, preserve

Original Word: שָׁמַר
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: shamar
Phonetic Spelling: (shaw-mar')
Definition: to keep, watch, preserve

5083. téreó
Strong's Concordance​
téreó: to watch over, to guard

Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Definition: to watch over, to guard
Usage: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.




His sheep do keep His commandments even if we may stumble... He abides in us... we are made new... and we hear His voice

this has nothing to do with the loss of salvation or gaining it by works as you like to push🤔



1 john 3

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

romans 3
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God

James 1:17 - Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.


Romans 11:29
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.​
HAHAHHAHA I KNOW................next he will be telling us that women are saved by having kids........when one conflates justification with ongoing sanctification they will always be peddling a false, self saving Cainology......just like SM and BH
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
If I can only become an expert on one of two subject: sin or grace

I'd choose to pursue grace (and become an expert at it, if that's possible)

if I learn about sin along the way, ok, if not, then less negative thinking for me
 
Sep 9, 2018
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I think if we all ignore these cultists they will pack up and go away . . . they are only seeking the inane attention they are getting.

"Never wrestle with a pig. You just get dirty and the pig enjoys it."
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,070
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So, in your view 'castaway' can only mean lost salvation and an eternity in hell? Not possible a man making shipwreck of his life whereby he is unable to serve God due to a personal failing. I know a few men called to preach that are no longer in the ministry because they failed to keep their body under subjection . . . yet they still love and serve the Lord in other capacities.

You have a serious case of tunnel vision.

Are you a Jehovah's Witness? And if you are, are you ashamed to admit it? Perhaps you fear what men might do to your membership here?
AMEN...PAUL'S concern was aimed at him becoming unusable by the Lord concerning his ministry....NOT losing his salvation.....again he conflates two ideas to come up with that which is false.....
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,070
14,696
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that seems really ill-defined.
do you mean you have to make yourself 'good enough' to receive Him?

in the parable of the wedding feast, where the poor and the lame and the crippled were invited, and everyone going by on the road, someone was thrown out because they weren't dressed in the right clothes. it was evidently important not to be wearing just anything - not like a 'come as you are' party in the common parlance.

everyone needed to be dressed in special robes. where do you think they got their wedding garments? esp. the beggars?
who is the man without the right clothes?
That is exactly what he believes....he believes we must be OBEDIENT so we can DESERVE SAVING GRACE........something we DESERVE and EARN......not the FREE, IRREVOCABLE GIFT the bible states it is....
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,070
14,696
113
a

I'm going to take a wild guess and suggest that my point zoomed right over your head. All unrighteousness is sin, in fact, anything we do that is less than perfect is sin. Also, not doing what you know to be right is also a sin. I merely admit to being a human, or, in other words a sinner saved by grace.

We often, including you, find ourselves doing things that we know we shouldn't but we do them any way because they please us. And we do them until God corrects us with His chastisement. It may be that we suddenly find that heaven is silent to us and we know that we have broken fellowship with God. We decide that it is much better to walk with Him than against Him.

I trust that you are not interpreting my 'enjoyment' of sin as something heinous like adultery, drunkenness or some other gross sin. I'm using more of watching television programs that do not please God, but I get a kick out of them . . . for a season.

Does that clear things up for you, my judge?
I understood what you meant.......I just thank God I am not like you you sinner.......... ;)
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,923
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In regards to Matthew 7:21-23, I'll never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I read Matthew 7:22 and thought to myself, wow! These many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be "good enough?" Such is the mindset of someone who believes that salvation is based on works.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was stained with sin. Religious, but not right with God. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people in Matthew 7:22 were not true converts.

Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh. This is why Jesus referred to them as WORKERS OF INIQUITY/LAWLESSNESS! Descriptive of the lost.


AMEN to the calling them WORKERS OF INIQUITY/LAWLESSNESS. Yes, I came out the Lutheran Church, with the same ritualistic order of service, with VERY LITTLE BIBLE TEACHING. I put up with it for about a YEAR after I was saved, while I was feeding on the Word taught by John MacArthur, on the Grace To You radio program. Then I just had to find a Church that Taught the Bible for an hour every Sunday. Before I left the Lutheran Church, Pastor confided in me, the board of elders came to him, saying that his 15 min. Sermons were too long, because after all they all wanted to get out of Church before Noon. So they ordered him to cut his sermons to 10 min. He told me he had to move because of that, so he accepted a Senior Pastor position, in a suburb of L.A. where he could teach for a half hour. And, I told him that was too short for me even. After I left that NON-BIBLE Teaching Church, every church I have attended taught sermons at LEAST 45 min. and most have taught sermons for 1 hour or more. Feels good to be WELL FEED.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
AMEN to the calling them WORKERS OF INIQUITY/LAWLESSNESS. Yes, I came out the Lutheran Church, with the same ritualistic order of service, with VERY LITTLE BIBLE TEACHING. I put up with it for about a YEAR after I was saved, while I was feeding on the Word taught by John MacArthur, on the Grace To You radio program. Then I just had to find a Church that Taught the Bible for an hour every Sunday. Before I left the Lutheran Church, Pastor confided in me, the board of elders came to him, saying that his 15 min. Sermons were too long, because after all they all wanted to get out of Church before Noon. So they ordered him to cut his sermons to 10 min. He told me he had to move because of that, so he accepted a Senior Pastor position, in a suburb of L.A. where he could teach for a half hour. And, I told him that was too short for me even. After I left that NON-BIBLE Teaching Church, every church I have attended taught sermons at LEAST 45 min. and most have taught sermons for 1 hour or more. Feels good to be WELL FEED.
what's on the menu? spiritually?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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