Not By Works

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gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,026
2,879
113
Does your cousin believe in OSAS. One of the by-products of OSAS is that Jesus has finished your salvation, and therefore you do not have to do anything but trust in him. That literally means that you no longer have to go to church, you no longer have to help your church with money donations, you do not have to fast, or pray, or do any good works (in fact good works is a nasty word), if you sin, Jesus will automatically forgive you without any effort on your part, etc., etc., etc. Is this where your cousin is? Because lots of Christians are in this position, just waiting until the second coming, to be taken up by their Lord into EL.
no, my cousin believes the same thing you, needs to studyman, and the rest of the lawyers/ workers believe- that we get and maintain salvation by command keeping.

he is wrong, ya'll are wrong, Jesus is right- whosoever believes will be saved. then, we manifest the fruits of the Sprit, which a byproduct of is doing the good works that we are to do, and thereby fulfill the righteous intent of the Law.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
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Amen decon, and now Jesus Christ reveals a "New Covenant", "God's Grace" and as UnderGrace has said in her post, we are no longer under "God's law", but "UnderGrace."

Application: "Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction."

Ephesians 1:7-11
7)
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8) that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9) He made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10) to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.
11) In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,

Amen and God bless you UnderGrace,
Where does your application reconcile with the law of Christ? (see Galatians 6:2) Please answer, thank you.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
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no, my cousin believes the same thing you, needs to studyman, and the rest of the lawyers/ workers believe- that we get and maintain salvation by command keeping.

he is wrong, ya'll are wrong, Jesus is right- whosoever believes will be saved. then, we manifest the fruits of the Sprit, which a byproduct of is doing the good works that we are to do, and thereby fulfill the righteous intent of the Law.
He is not wrong, ya'll is not wrong, because what you have said is what we believe. Whoever believes will be saved, then, we manifest the fruits of the Spirit, which a byproduct of is doing the good works that we are to do, and thereby fulfill the righteous intent of the Law. Thank you, we are not far apart.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
I can tell you are from the Easy Believism, Love Only false Gospel.

We are from:

Galatians 2:2 (NJB)
2 My journey was inspired by a revelation and there, in a private session with the recognised leaders, I expounded the whole gospel that I preach to the gentiles, to make quite sure that the efforts I was making and had already made should not be fruitless.

Galatians 1:9 (HCSB)
9 As we have said before, I now say again: If anyone preaches to you a gospel contrary to what you received, a curse be on him!

Acts 20:27 (ESV)
27 for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God.

Acts 20:29-31 (HCSB)
29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 And men will rise up from your own number with deviant doctrines to lure the disciples into following them.
31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for three years I did not stop warning each one of you with tears.
LOL
That's pretty funny!
I'm what Dcon would call a worker-for and what Jesus would call one who obeys Him and all He taught...

No easy believism and love only gospel down my road...
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
If you were alive in the 1st Century would you have said the same of John the Baptist, JESUS or maybe Paul when they were raking the disciples over the coals?
This isn't the 1st century and the biblebaptist guy isn't John or Jesus or Paul.

He's a Christian like I am and I treated him with respect and expect to be treated the same.
No one here is FORCED to speak to anyone they don't feel comfy with.

BTW, since you're so interested in the 1st century, do you also believe what the 1st century theologians taught?? Also known as the Early Church Fathers.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
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Hi Dan, God will separate the sheep from the goats so we do not need to 2nd guess who is truly saved, only test the spirits whether they be from God. Quote from a Pastor, "there will be some people in heaven that you thought would "never be there" and "they are" and there will be some people you thought for sure "would be there" and "they were not.":)

I began my Christian life by first reading the four Gospels plus Proverbs and Psalms. When I reached the passage in John5:35 I was shocked and even terrified at the possibilities and so as Christians should do I, took stock of and assessed my new faith, "whether I be in the faith.", 2Cor13:5, very subjective of course but I believe I passed....:)
"And this is eternal life, that they may know You,"

John5:35-40: Testimonies of Jesus
35) John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light.

36) “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. 37) And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38) nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39) "You study the Scriptures diligently" because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,
40) yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

God bless!
Everyone on this forum comes to Jesus to have life. We do not refuse to come to Jesus to have life. We come to Jesus to have life.

The sheep were separated from the goats because the sheep follow their Savior, and do as the Savior tells them to do. The goats are not as obedient, and are not willing to follow and are not willing to do what they are told.

Matthew 25:32-46 is how God is going to separate the sheep from the goats. Now you say, " God will separate the sheep from the goats so we do not need to 2nd guess who is truly saved, only test the spirits whether they be from God. But the scripture says that the separation will be done by what good works we do. That is the true sign. Living the Law of Christ (see Galatians 6:2). No 2nd guessing, no testing the spirits, but just what good works they did. The sheep were engaged in the work of the Lord and went on to EL. The goats were not engaged int he work of the Lord and went on to everlasting punishment.

Matthew 25:32-46 is a great scripture to illistrate what it takes to be a sheep in the Lords flock. Thank you for your bringing it up.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,259
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no, my cousin believes the same thing you, needs to studyman, and the rest of the lawyers/ workers believe- that we get and maintain salvation by command keeping.

he is wrong, ya'll are wrong, Jesus is right- whosoever believes will be saved. then, we manifest the fruits of the Sprit, which a byproduct of is doing the good works that we are to do, and thereby fulfill the righteous intent of the Law.
Hi gb9, most workers to keep salvation and who also say you can loose your eternal salvation will without fail say that if you believe in the, "Eternal Security of the Believer", doctrine, (OSAS), then there is nothing more to do but just sit and wait for the return of Jesus. It is the only argument they have for "eternal security."

My best guess is that they are fringe Christians, like John5:35 say's they "study the scriptures" because in them they believe they will have "eternal life", but there is no circumcision of the heart and an intimate heart relationship with our Savior. But they do have an intellectual head knowledge only.

What born again Christian do you know who believes that "nothing will ever separate us from the love of God", nor will God ever lose one of His dear Children" and that after their eternal salvation all that has to happen is to, "wait for the return of Jesus." Who in your circle of True Christian's friends would ever believe such "nonsense", of course "Nobody" would.

"Eternal Salvation", is a gift of God for those who believe. Your "Pride" the original sin will keep you from entering God's "Eternal Heaven" confess and return to God.

God bless!
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
LOL
That's pretty funny!
I'm what Dcon would call a worker-for and what Jesus would call one who obeys Him and all He taught...

No easy believism and love only gospel down my road...
You must be one of the sheep. Keep believing and obeying, and keep telling us some other experiences that you have had.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
You must be one of the sheep. Keep believing and obeying, and keep telling us some other experiences that you have had.
I don't know you benhur...although your name seems familiar to me.
I've been a Christian a really long time and I'm not sure what you mean by experiences.
Had plenty of those, but I don't go by experiences...I go by what I know and I know that Jesus said we're to obey Him.
John 14:15
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Hi gb9, most workers to keep salvation and who also say you can loose your eternal salvation will without fail say that if you believe in the, "Eternal Security of the Believer", doctrine, (OSAS), then there is nothing more to do but just sit and wait for the return of Jesus. It is the only argument they have for "eternal security."

My best guess is that they are fringe Christians, like John5:35 say's they "study the scriptures" because in them they believe they will have "eternal life", but there is no circumcision of the heart and an intimate heart relationship with our Savior. But they do have an intellectual head knowledge only.

What born again Christian do you know who believes that "nothing will ever separate us from the love of God", nor will God ever lose one of His dear Children" and that after their eternal salvation all that has to happen is to, "wait for the return of Jesus." Who in your circle of True Christian's friends would ever believe such "nonsense", of course "Nobody" would.

"Eternal Salvation", is a gift of God for those who believe. Your "Pride" the original sin will keep you from entering God's "Eternal Heaven" confess and return to God.

God bless!
The sheep are clearly depicted in Matthew 25:32-46. Since I already know that you are engaged in the work of the Lord this way, I am not sure why you resist my call to be engaged in the work of the Lord, in the way Matthew 25 portrays it.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
I don't know you benhur...although your name seems familiar to me.
I've been a Christian a really long time and I'm not sure what you mean by experiences.
Had plenty of those, but I don't go by experiences...I go by what I know and I know that Jesus said we're to obey Him.
John 14:15
You are right, keep up the good work, and thank you.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,259
113
Everyone on this forum comes to Jesus to have life. We do not refuse to come to Jesus to have life. We come to Jesus to have life.

The sheep were separated from the goats because the sheep follow their Savior, and do as the Savior tells them to do. The goats are not as obedient, and are not willing to follow and are not willing to do what they are told.

Matthew 25:32-46 is how God is going to separate the sheep from the goats. Now you say, " God will separate the sheep from the goats so we do not need to 2nd guess who is truly saved, only test the spirits whether they be from God. But the scripture says that the separation will be done by what good works we do. That is the true sign. Living the Law of Christ (see Galatians 6:2). No 2nd guessing, no testing the spirits, but just what good works they did. The sheep were engaged in the work of the Lord and went on to EL. The goats were not engaged int he work of the Lord and went on to everlasting punishment.

Matthew 25:32-46 is a great scripture to illistrate what it takes to be a sheep in the Lords flock. Thank you for your bringing it up.
Christians are "Sealed by the Holy Spirit" unto the day of redemption. You are attempting to use your good works to enter heaven, good luck with that. Your relationship to the Savior is intellectual only, good luck with that too. Mixing works and Grace is a counterfeit gospel and will not save a flea, repent and turn to God and you will be saved.

You need to come to God on His terms; your pride and works is going the way of Cain, an unacceptable offering.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,259
113
The sheep are clearly depicted in Matthew 25:32-46. Since I already know that you are engaged in the work of the Lord this way, I am not sure why you resist my call to be engaged in the work of the Lord, in the way Matthew 25 portrays it.
Jesus is the way the truth and the life; your works or my works will gain you absolutely nothing toward our eternal salvation. Works are the evidence that we have been saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit. Works will provide you nothing concerning our salvation. "Saved by grace through faith, not of yourself, it is a "gift of God."

Your pride will not let you accept "God's gift" You have been given the True Gospel, over and over and rerfuse to believe and everyone here on this forum has seen your rejection of the Gospel, return to God and you will be saved.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
515
113
Oh we have a way to INGNORE YOUR WHOLE POST permanently. I am thinking about putting you there.
That is the custom of religious man since Cain placed his Christian brother Abel on permanent ignore. It is certainly in your power to do so.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,915
2,788
113
It's not about me, it's about "EVERY WORD" that proceeds from the mouth of God.

Of course you have been "convinced" that your religion is the right one, the Pope preaches that He is God's mouth piece, the JW claims to be God's True church, and so do the Baptists and so did the Pharisees. Yet, they all disagree with each other, and they all preach different doctrines. The one thing they all have in common, that no member of the Christ's Church did, is that they all "Transgress the Commandment of God be their own religious tradition".

I would love to find a church that didn't do this, but I can only find a small group of people who really "Believe" ALL that is written in the Bible. And I try to have these discussions on this forum, and a few do engage. But most just get all offended when their man made traditions are exposed, they label you, insult you, ridicule you, not because a person uses their own words but because they use the Word's of God. They did the same thing to the prophets, the disciples, and even their own Messiah. But what can a man do? Surely the Christ is true.

Luke 16:
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

And it's not like He didn't warn us of what was to come.

Matt. 7:
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So yes, I belong to the same church Abraham, Caleb, Abel, Jeremiah, Zechariahs, Simeon, Anna, Mary, David, Peter, James, Sampson. Job, Noah and many others belong to. And anyone can be "Grafted in" if only they would "believe" in the Holy Root.

But sadly, it seems men are more interested in their religious traditions, than with "FAITH" in the Word of God which became Flesh.

Your HOME MADE THEOLOGY, IS FULLY FLAWED, BECAUSE YOU DID LEARN. You are supposed to be discipled by one who has already learned. So now you get a one way ticket to my Permanent Ignore List. BYE, so if everyone does the same, you have fun talking to yourself.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,915
2,788
113
I would suggest that everyone puts Studyman on there IGNORE list. Click on his Avatar, the bottom of that drop box is where you can Permanently IGNORE him.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
1 john 3
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

2 Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Isaiah 53:11 - He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

____________
praise God for delievering me from the false doctrine which put my salvation on my own shoulders

and showing to me to trust in Jesus

😏
_________
Ephesians 4
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

________

God is a wonderful loving Father to His children, though stern and ready to chasten for wrong doing
________
Hebrews 12:7-9
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
_________

a wicked doctrine which teaches even if you are now made new

now His son

and you sin

that He will cast you out

is not biblical

despite the many confused, or blind who push that teaching of man


...no
He corrects His children as a loving Father building them up and working in them to produce fruit
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
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How many people need to tell you the same thing? You reject the traditional teaching of Scripture in favor of some teaching you received. Was it from the Watchtower Tract Society?

You want to know my answer to that, go back and read my responses to you.
The reason you do not answer is because it will expose you to the truth that you do not want to believe in.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
And we know what happens with wood, hay and stubble.
It gets burned up yet we are saved through the fire.

Why is that (I know you know why just trying to make the point)?

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

We have been SAVED through faith and it's a gift (a gift freely given and not earned, otherwise it's not a gift)

We are his workmanship, he is not our workmanship.
We can't work to persuade him to save us.
It's his workmanship in us through Jesus and in Jesus that we walk in the good works prepared for us even before we were born, both physically and spiritually.

But I would like to ask everyone on here.

WHAT ARE THESE GOOD WORKS?
Read Matthew 25:32-46