Not By Works

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GodsGrace101

Active member
Sep 14, 2018
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No man keeps their salvation, your teaching is in error.

Neither of the texts teach a loss of personal salvation. In Peter falling from steadfastness is falling from steadfastness, not from being saved. You're reading things into the texts that are not there.
Are you ever going to answer to Romans 11:22?
How about Hebrews 10:26-27
And Mathew 5:13

Need more?

Can you post a scripture that says we cannot lose our salvation no matter what?
You depend on being sealed by the Holy Spirit?
Do you have the Holy Spirit if you abandon God??
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
5,028
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Are you ever going to answer to Romans 11:22?
How about Hebrews 10:26-27
And Mathew 5:13

Need more?

Can you post a scripture that says we cannot lose our salvation no matter what?
You depend on being sealed by the Holy Spirit?
Do you have the Holy Spirit if you abandon God??
romans 11
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

how do we abide in Him?

faith

goodness

please also pay attention ... better yet
pray and reread to understand those branches who dont abide

dont have belief in Jesus
"if they abide not still in unbelief"


hebrews 10 is speaking of the animal sacrifices for willful sin which no longer remain since Jesus is the true sacrifice


and

matthew 5 13 has nothing to do with the loss of salvation or gain of salvation or maintaining salvation through works like you love to peddle


cmon now

stop clinging to your stand alone out of context verses to try and attack the gospel


and believe on JESUS for salvation

not your weak lacking performance which falls short
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
5,028
1,137
113
romans 4
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

___________

Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

________

🙄

its like the same exact arguments for 3 years now


.... you who place yourself under the law are in dangerous spot


i worry for you
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,475
1,403
113
Thanks for this nice reply.
As to salvation...our works certainly don't save us, but once we are saved, I DO believe we're to do good deeds and
that this keeps us saved. Jesus said we will be judged by our works, so how could we justify that
we won't be??
Philippians1:6
"being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus."

Hi God'sGrace101, God began a good work in you and He will finish that good work. Do not overlook the "Doctrine of Rewards", the judgement seat of Christ or, (bema seat). Christians will be judged according to our deeds, "in the Body of Christ, whether good or bad." Yes we will be judged but the "Judgement" is not for punishment but it is for "rewards"

Our eternal salvation is made sure and kept by the power of God, not by our wonderful works, you cannot "merit" eternal life, it is a "gift of God." And the good work that God began in you, He will bring to a conclusion, 'you cannot keep yourself saved', but God can. Christians are saved by grace "alone" through faith in Jesus Christ "alone"

God will remember our sins no more. There is then no fear of punishment, (No Condemnation), at the "judgement seat of Christ", the bema seat), only degrees of rewards.

2Corinthians5:10
For we must all appear before 'the judgment seat of Christ', so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Revelations 22:12
"Look ! I am coming soon, "and my 'reward' is with me" to pay each one according to what he has done!"

God bless
 

GodsGrace101

Active member
Sep 14, 2018
229
36
28
romans 11
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

how do we abide in Him?

faith

goodness

please also pay attention ... better yet
pray and reread to understand those branches who dont abide

dont have belief in Jesus
"if they abide not still in unbelief"


hebrews 10 is speaking of the animal sacrifices for willful sin which no longer remain since Jesus is the true sacrifice


and

matthew 5 13 has nothing to do with the loss of salvation or gain of salvation or maintaining salvation through works like you love to peddle


cmon now

stop clinging to your stand alone out of context verses to try and attack the gospel


and believe on JESUS for salvation

not your weak lacking performance which falls short
Oh for goodness sake McGee.
Be nice. I knew you when you were but a boy.
Let's take one at a time:

Mathew 11:20-22
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.


In chapters 9 to 11 of Romans Paul interrupts his argument and speaks about the Jews and how he's sorry they did not accept Jesus as their Messiah. He says that the Jews were broken off for their unbelief. He says that the Gentiles also should stand by their faith and not be conceited but fear.
Why?
Because if God was willing to CUT OFF the Jews who were His chosen people, He would also cut off the Gentiles if they did not continue in their belief. The Jews were the "natural" branches.

In verse 22 Paul states that God will be kind to those who CONTINUE in His kindness, IOW, do as He desires. But to those WHO FELL, severity OR ELSE the Gentiles will also be CUT OFF.

Jesus said in John 15 that we will die if we are not attached to HIS vine. Paul is making the same comparison. Of couse, you DO have to ask yourself what it means to BELIEVE in Jesus...does it mean a mental belief? (even the demons believe) No. It means to believe in the N.T. kind of way --- to trust Him and to follow Him and to be disciples of Him and learn from Him and obey Him.


Hebrews 10:26-27
Verse 26 If we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins. Here we are being told not to return to a life of sin. Paul states this in many of his letters. Our life and our behavior indeed have a say in our continued salvation.
Verse 27 IF we go on sinning (living a life of sin) a terrifying expectation of judgement can be expected of us. Those who say that faith along is enough are wrong according to Paul. (I'm not saying you're one of those).

Mathew 5:13
WE are the salt of the earth. We give it flavor and we preserve God's word IF WE BECOME TASTELESS
 

GodsGrace101

Active member
Sep 14, 2018
229
36
28
@NoNameMcgee
Jesus said we are no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.

Sounds very serious....
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
5,028
1,137
113
Philippians1:6
"being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus."

Hi God'sGrace101, God began a good work in you and He will finish that good work. Do not overlook the "Doctrine of Rewards", the judgement seat of Christ or, (bema seat). Christians will be judged according to our deeds, "in the Body of Christ, whether good or bad." Yes we will be judged but the "Judgement" is not for punishment but it is for "rewards"

Our eternal salvation is made sure and kept by the power of God, not by our wonderful works, you cannot "merit" eternal life, it is a "gift of God." And the good work that God began in you, He will bring to a conclusion, 'you cannot keep yourself saved', but God can. Christians are saved by grace "alone" through faith in Jesus Christ "alone"

God will remember our sins no more. There is then no fear of punishment, (No Condemnation), at the "judgement seat of Christ", the bema seat), only degrees of rewards.

2Corinthians5:10
For we must all appear before 'the judgment seat of Christ', so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Revelations 22:12
"Look ! I am coming soon, "and my 'reward' is with me" to pay each one according to what he has done!"

God bless
spot on brother


salvation is a gift

not a reward

God bless you
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
32,558
3,635
113
Galatians 3:1-3
1You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?
2This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?


D, please notice that Galatians is being written because Paul learned that some were teaching that circumcision and the observance of the entire mosaic law was necessary for salvation. This, of course, is false.

Paul was just saying what I've been saying and which everyone here agrees with... we are NOT saved by works.
Galatians 2:16 We are saved ONLY by faith in Jesus.


Works would include circumcision, which is nothing, Galatians 6:15, and the observance of the entire mosaic law.

IOW, did the Galatians believe they were saved by the SPIRIT or by the FLESH? They certainly were not saved by the flesh.

I don't understand how you think Galatians has anything to do with what I'm saying.
We are saved by our spirit not by our works. However, Paul does go on to say that we are to do good to all men,,,Galatians 6:10


In every letter of his, he says to continue in our belief and good deeds. Even in Galatians 5:17-21 he states what we are NOT to do...so behavior IS important to our salvation.

If we returned to a life as depicted in Galatians 5:17-21 would one still be saved??
Started in the spirit and made complete by the works of the flesh is clear.....exactly the doctrine you espouse.....
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
32,558
3,635
113
I see you are agreeing with studyman . well, lets' see. he thinks that the Pharisees were devil worshipers who had thrown out the Torah, and used their own law. he also does not recognize Jesus as being fully human and fully Devine.

do you agree or disagree with these 2 things.
He also uses EVE as an example of those who say LORD LORD have we not done......he misses the mark on a regular basis and if he ever hits the truth in context I will go buy a lottery ticket.....
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
5,028
1,137
113
Be nice. I knew you when you were but a boy.

lol

what was the account name you mainly used when i met you

i dont feel like playing games with someone ive probably already spent countless hours trying to reach only for them to continue pushing doctrine of men and placing salvation on their own shoulders while they are hiding who they are



there comes a time when we know to knock the dust off and spend our time working on more fruitful things
 
Dec 28, 2016
6,843
876
113
You are not a Christian either if you think it is alright to go around calling people names. On top of that to do itto make fun of them who are caught up in iniquity. Seriously?
I think, in proper context, it is OK to "call people names" or more accurately "describe what they are."

In fact, it's Biblical.

Now, I wouldn't just straight out call them morons but I wasn't there.

As far as your casting aspersions on others naming them lost i.e. without the grace of God, that's all on you and is nothing short of diabolical behavior and shows a myopic understanding of the nature of even the saved.
 

GodsGrace101

Active member
Sep 14, 2018
229
36
28
Philippians1:6
"being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus."

Hi God'sGrace101, God began a good work in you and He will finish that good work. Do not overlook the "Doctrine of Rewards", the judgement seat of Christ or, (bema seat). Christians will be judged according to our deeds, "in the Body of Christ, whether good or bad." Yes we will be judged but the "Judgement" is not for punishment but it is for "rewards"

Our eternal salvation is made sure and kept by the power of God, not by our wonderful works, you cannot "merit" eternal life, it is a "gift of God." And the good work that God began in you, He will bring to a conclusion, 'you cannot keep yourself saved', but God can. Christians are saved by grace "alone" through faith in Jesus Christ "alone"

God will remember our sins no more. There is then no fear of punishment, (No Condemnation), at the "judgement seat of Christ", the bema seat), only degrees of rewards.

2Corinthians5:10
For we must all appear before 'the judgment seat of Christ', so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Revelations 22:12
"Look ! I am coming soon, "and my 'reward' is with me" to pay each one according to what he has done!"

God bless
Yes, there are also rewards.
Here's my problem...I've seen some true believers that leave the faith.
Did you ever hear this guy or anyone like him?
Do you think he's lying?

 

GodsGrace101

Active member
Sep 14, 2018
229
36
28
lol

what was the account name you mainly used when i met you

i dont feel like playing games with someone ive probably already spent countless hours trying to reach only for them to continue pushing doctrine of men and placing salvation on their own shoulders while they are hiding who they are



there comes a time when we know to knock the dust off and spend our time working on more fruitful things
Actually, we used to agree.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
5,616
1,093
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Mathew 11:20-22
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
You quote the above from Matthew.

Here is the verses

Matthew 11:20-22
20 Then He began to rebuke the cities in which most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent: 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you.

Slight difference:cool:

Anyway I knew what you are trying to convey

Romans 11:20-22
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

The question I want to ask you is that do you think these verses negate eternal security or as you may think OSAS.

My guess is that you do.

I don't think this is the case.
I think it's do with nations.
The Jews and gentiles.

V 11-36 is about Israel rejecting Jesus.

Romans 11:19-21
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.

Who were the natural branches and why were they cut off?

Who were the branches that were grafted into the vine

Romans 11:18-20
18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.

The issue is that the gentiles were boasting that they were superior to the Jews just like the Jews felt towards the gentiles.

But we find

Romans 11:23
23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

We must remember that Paul bought the Gospel to the gentiles because the Jews rejected the Gospel.

So it's not about individuals losing salvation it's about Gods redemptive plan for his chosen people, both Israel and the Gentiles.

Romans 11:25-27
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: