Not By Works

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Sep 9, 2018
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I think the Christ is warning folks about believing something that isn't true. That is what "Deception" is. In Matthew 7 He was speaking about "many" who "believed" they are saved, already immortal, already all set. But in the end they found out they had been deceived, just as Eve was. He tells us this truth now, so we can use the tools and "armor" He created for us and wore as a man, to resist the deception.

Sadly, "many" religious men are already deceived into believing they are already immortal, therefore they don't need God's instructions.

I don't know that I am saved. The Christ says if I endure to the end I shall be saved. But right now I can die. My hope is that I will be part of the first resurrection, and I am "working" with my Savior as He "perfects my Faith".

Ph. 2:
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

1 cor. 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

1 Cor. 15:
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

Rom. 11:
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Of course if a person is convinced as was Eve, that they have nothing to fear. That they are already immortal, already saved, then these Word's of God, and many more warnings are of no use to them.

I think that is satans goal from the very beginning. This is why the Christ said we are to "Live by EVERY WORD which proceeds from the mouth of God". In this way we can know what is true and what is not.
So you don’t know if you are saved, yet you purport to instruct those who that do? Interesting!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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There is only One Righteous and only He can give Righteousness to a person, in other words a person cannot manufacture something they do not have.....hence "depart from me I never knew you"
yes.....IMPUTED Righteousness.......and HE never knew them......there were not saved and then lost it.....
 

GodsGrace101

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Sep 14, 2018
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1. & 2. Look at my post about the Post on Parable of the Sower, and you will find that YOU TOO include people that have NEVER BEEN BORN AGAIN, and they are UN-SAVED, #74,648 . That is what we call EASY BELIEVISM, including the two crops that never produced any harvest. Remember Faith comes by hearing (with understanding) a message about Christ. You can sit in a pew for a long time before you HEAR WITH UNDERSTANDING. I went to church all my life, thought just because I sat on a Pew, and said the Memorized Apostles Creed, that made me Christian. NOT! I did not get saved until I was 29 years old. I KNOW I WAS NOT SAVED BEFORE THAT, because the last week of 1977 I attempted suicide three times. Twice I had a Pistol against my temple with the trigger half pulled, and absolute TERROR over came me, NOT BECAUSE I WAS GOING TO DIE, THAT IS WHAT I WANTED; I realized that I WAS IN THE GATES TO HADES/HELL AND WAS ABOUT TO WALK IN VOLUNTARILY. NO MAN could ever put that KIND of TERROR in me, NOT EVEN IF A MASS MURDERER HAD A KNIFE TO MY THROAT. A TERROR WAY BEYOND ANY MORTAL MAN COULD EVER PUT IN ME. After the Third attempt at SUICIDE, after I sobered up, I walked into my Bedroom, and WAVE after WAVE of TREMENDOUS GUILT FOR MY WHOLE LIFESTYLE, KEPT WASHING OVER ME. I found myself on my KNEES, WEEPING AND BAWLING LIKE A BABY, praying a prayer that ONLY THE HOLY SPIRIT COULD HAVE GIVEN ME. "FORGIVE ME LORD, FORGIVE ME! If you have a purpose for my life, YOU are going to have to come into my Heart and do it threw me, I CANNOT LIVE LIKE THAT!"

THAT WAS THE MOMENT OF DEEP LOVE AND TRUST IN JESUS CHRIST. There is more to that story, but will save it for Later. BUT that MOMENT WHEN I WILLINGLY SURRENDERED TO JESUS CHRIST FOREVER, was the MOMENT OF MY SALVATION, and when I VERBALIZED THAT PRAYER, MY SALVATION WAS SEALED FOREVER.

THAT IS WHAT IT MEANS TO ENTER THRU THE NARROW GATE, in Mat. 7. In the PARABLE of the GATES, ONLY those who call themselves CHRISTIANS are even MENTIONED. The Broad Road so called Christians think they are going to Heaven, but NEVER had a Personal LOVING Relationship with JESUS CHRIST; and have been DECEIVED by a false gospel, and they are on the way to the DESTRUCTION of HADES/HELL, just like I WAS. MANY go thru the WRONG GATE, but ONLY A FEW FIND THE NARROW GATE.

You say, the entire Bible is full of persons that obeyed God, and I TELL YOU, if the MOTIVE FOR OBEYING HIM IS NOT PURELY LOVE FOR HIM, you are ON THE BROAD ROAD TO HADES/HELL, deceived into believing you are on the road to Heaven, because you have entered the WRONG GATE.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My last statment was:
GIVE HIM ALL THE GLORY FOR DOING ALL GOOD WORKS THAT COME OUT OF THE LOVE IN YOUR HEART.

AND you also said: Your last sentence sounds very calvinistic.

SO YOU WANT TO ROB JESUS OF THE GLORY THAT BELONGS ONLY TO HIM? AMAZING!

PAUL DID NOT:

Galatians 2:20 (GWT)
20 I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live I live by believing in God's Son, who loved me and took the punishment for my sins.


YOUR STATEMENT REEKS WITH PRIDE.

I would have you KNOW that Armenian VS. Calvinist SINFUL ARGUMENT, we considered it DEAD AND BURIED in the early 1980's, and people like you KEEP DIGGING IT UP.

The reason we decided to consider it DEAD AND BURIED, is it is UTTERLY SINFUL. In fact it is listed as the SEVENTH thing that GOD HATES.

Proverbs 6:16-19 (NJB)
16 There are six things that Yahweh hates, seven that he abhors:
17 a haughty look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that weaves wicked plots, feet that hurry to do evil,
19 a false witness who lies with every breath, and one who sows dissension among brothers.


I am so GLAD that Neither side of that Sinful Argument, can lay claim that I am on their side. You see, I am in agreement with ONLY 3 points of Calvinism. SO the CALVINISTS will NOT CLAIM ME, and NEITHER WILL THE ARMENIANS.

So what can they Call ME ? ? ?
JUST A CHRISTIAN,
and Yes, I go to a Non-Denominational Church TOO.
The Parable of the sower:
Luke 8:13 JESUS said:
"Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.
NASB

JESUS said "they believed for a while". I hear on these threads that we must believe in Jesus to be saved...so if Jesus said they believed for a while, we don't believe Jesus is telling the truth?
They BELIEVED FOR A WHILE and in time of temptation THEY FELL AWAY.

I don't believe this is anything to debate. Jesus said it, that's it.

You have a very nice testimony. If was also saved at about the age of 28.

As to the rest, you do keep telling me I'm proudful and perhaps not even saved. It's interesting how you could tell who is saved and who isn't.

Apparently you believe in works more than I do....
You believe that persons are saved by their doctrine instead of by Jesus.
This is a huge work. To have to study and believe in a set doctrine in order to be saved.
I can't even think of one verse that says this. Maybe you can?

I'm depending on Jesus to save me, not my theology.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Do you believe GOD IS ALL KNOWING, and HE KNOWS all of our Decisions we will ultimately make, before the FOUNDATIONS OF THE WORLD?

You seem to GREATLY diminish the ALL KNOWING POWER OF GOD.

Joshua 24:15 (HCSB)
15 But if it doesn’t please you to worship Yahweh, choose for yourselves today the one you will worship: the gods your fathers worshiped beyond the Euphrates River or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living. As for me and my family, we will worship Yahweh.”

YES, I BELIEVE THAT, HOWEVER:

GOD KNEW BEFORE HE FORMED THE EARTH THE ULTIMATE DECISIONS EVERYONE WOULD EVER MAKE, PERIOD.

HERE IS THE PROOF:

Revelation 13:8-9 (HCSB)
8 All those who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.
9 If anyone has an ear, he should listen:

Revelation 17:8 (HCSB)
8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up from the abyss and go to destruction. Those who live on the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast that was, and is not, and will be present ⌊again⌋.

Revelation 20:15 (HCSB)
15 And anyone not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.


SO GOD CAN FOREKNEW, BEFORE HE CREATED THE EARTH, EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT HAS EVER LIVED, AND THE DECISIONS THEY WILL ULTIMATELY MAKE. GOD IS MUCH, MUCH BIGGER AND MORE POWERFUL THAN YOU HAVE EVER KNOWN.


@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@


I have a theory that may be a possibility, but this is only a theory.

What does GOD's OMNIPRESENCE mean to YOU ? ? ?

Everywhere in the Universe at the SAME TIME, correct ? ? ?

So we agree on that Part of IT.

BUT WHAT IF GOD'S OMNIPRESENCE INCLUDES - EVERYWHERE IN THE UNIVERSE AND EVERY SECOND OF TIME AS WE KNOW IT, ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

GOD IS ETERNAL, AND TIME CERTAINLY IS NOT LIKE OUR TIME, IN FACT IT SAYS A DAY IS AS A 1000 YEARS, WHICH CAN ALSO BE INFINITY. HE IS THE CREATOR OF TIME AS WE KNOW IT, AND IS NOT A BEING TRAVELING THROUGH THE TIME HE CREATED. NOW IF THAT IS TRUE, THEN GOD CAN BE AT EVERY SINCERE CONVERSION, AND AT THE END OF TIME AS WE KNOW IT, AND BE AT THE BOOK OF LIFE BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

NOW GOD IS INFINITELY BIGGER THAN YOU EVER THOUGHT HIM TO BE!

Our Names are written in the LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE before HE even formed the earth.

But also:

Revelation 22:13 (NIV)
13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.



Isaiah 46:10 (NASB)
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure';



BECAUSE HE IS OMNIPRESENT IN THE BEGINNING AND THE END AND EVERYWHERE IN BETWEEN.


Think about it, GOD DOES NOT FIT IN A BOX THAT WE CALL TIME.
Very kind of you to give lessons even when they are not asked for.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Sure.
Paul could only teach what Jesus had already taught the Apostles and what the Apostles taught Paul and what he gleaned from the Holy Spirit working in him to write such important books as Romans.

.
Everything past the bolded has no bearing and the bolded is false.....the Apostles taught nothing to PAUL....he was taught by DIRECT REVELATION from JESUS.....do you even study?

For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother's womb and called me through His grace, was pleased to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went away to Arabia, and returned once more to Damascus. Then three years later I went up to Jerusalem to become acquainted with Cephas, and stayed with him fifteen days. But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord's brother. (Now in what I am writing to you, I assure you before God that I am not lying.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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The Parable of the sower:
Luke 8:13 JESUS said:
"Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.
NASB

JESUS said "they believed for a while". I hear on these threads that we must believe in Jesus to be saved...so if Jesus said they believed for a while, we don't believe Jesus is telling the truth?
They BELIEVED FOR A WHILE and in time of temptation THEY FELL AWAY.

I don't believe this is anything to debate. Jesus said it, that's it.
Even though this rocky soil hearer is said to have "believed," yet he is never said to have been "saved." How do we know that the rocky soil hearer was never actually "saved"? Allow me explain the reasons.

First, his heart condition is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer in the 4th soil, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was not "good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. Such soil represents a sinner not properly prepared in heart. People who "believe" and "rejoice" at the preaching of the gospel without a prepared heart, and without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" in themselves, do not experience real salvation.

*Unlike saving faith, temporary shallow belief is not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit, represent saving belief? Also the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons "believe" mental assent that "there is one God," but they are not saved.

John has portrayed people who "believe" but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of genuine or consummated belief resulting in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their belief was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.

Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. YOU CALL THAT SAVED? :unsure:
 

GodsGrace101

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Sep 14, 2018
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ARE YOU BLIND!

You keep say that we MUST obey, which puts it in the REALM of a LAW.

I SAY that JESUS SAID "IF YOU LOVE ME, you WILL obey." THAT PUTS IT IN THE REALM OF A WILLING, LOVING ACTION, IN RESPONSE TO HIS LOVE FOR US."

There is NO choice between MUST OBEY, and NOT TO OBEY, THEY ARE BOTH FALSE DOCTRINES.

THE ONLY FORM of OBEDIENCE that GOD RESPECTS, IS WHEN IT IS PURELY BECAUSE YOU SINCERELY LOVE HIM AND WANT TO SHOW THAT LOVE FOR HIM. It has NOTHING to do with what goes on between you ears. GENUINE FAITH is what is going on in your HEART (Human Spirit). When you have been genuinely Born Again, your human spirit thinks, has GOD's LOVE inside of IT and LOVES HIM BACK, Rom. 5:5, and it wills to do what pleases GOD. THAT IS THE NATURE OF THE BORN AGAIN HUMAN SPIRIT. At first the Will of the Carnal Mind which is at WAR with the SPIRITUAL MIND, more often than not wins out. AS YOU SPIRITUALLY MATURE FEEDING ON THE WORD, it will become more and more DOMINANT.

Because of GOD's LOVE being poured into your HEART, your Eternal LIVING Human Spirit will Dominate the Carnal Mind, and will by NATURE want to LOVE HIM.

1 John 5:3 (ESV)
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.


Why does it say "his commandments are not burdensome" ? ? ?

BECAUSE IT IS THE NATURE OF THE BORN AGAIN HUMAN SPIRIT TO WANT TO DO HIS WILL TO SHOW HIM LOVE.

If all of this seems like FOOLISHNESS to YOU, there is a reason:

1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (NIV)
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Why do you think this sounds like foolishness to me?
I agree with you.
 
Oct 16, 2018
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Yes you can throw out works. Unless you think God can not know our faith, God does not need proof, We may, But God does not.

That passage said Abraham was declared righteous (saved) before he did one work.

The work was a natural response to faith. Not an addendum to faith to help his get saved,
Yes. This is the golden solution to James 2 that not only the RCC, but most protestants even fail to grasp.

Yea, a MAN may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:18‭-‬20 KJV​

It's men that need to see works. It's men that boast about their faith by their works

BUT

Works are important for many things for the saved believer. Do you want to prosper? Do good works. Do you want heavenly reward? Do good works. Do you want to be rewarded in public? Do well in secret. Do you want souls saved? Love and set an example. Do you want to know God? Seek purity in heart, for the pure in heart shall see God.
 

GodsGrace101

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Sep 14, 2018
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I was raised in the Roman Catholic church and can also testify they do not believe that we are already saved. *Studyman needs to get his facts straight.* They also certainly do not believe in eternal security. Prior to my conversion, while still attending the RCC several years ago, I lived in continuous fear and bondage to IN-security! :eek: As a converted, born again believer in Christ, I no longer live in fear and bondage to IN-security. Praise God! :D
I'm truly happy for you MMD .
I never felt as you did as a catholic --- I always trusted God and knew Him to be a good and just God.
Maybe because I never studied in the cc and this was a good thing!
I hate to get into eternal security, but it's good to believe that we are secure in our destiny...I just think we should add ... for as long as we remain IN JESUS. I don't know how this could bother anyone --- who here is thinking of leaving Him??

I have, however, heard of this happening.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Everything past the bolded has no bearing and the bolded is false.....the Apostles taught nothing to PAUL....he was taught by DIRECT REVELATION from JESUS.....do you even study?

For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother's womb and called me through His grace, was pleased to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went away to Arabia, and returned once more to Damascus. Then three years later I went up to Jerusalem to become acquainted with Cephas, and stayed with him fifteen days. But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord's brother. (Now in what I am writing to you, I assure you before God that I am not lying.
What do you think Paul and Peter discussed?
What do you think Paul and James discussed?
The weather?
I mean, really, do you not think they were human beings?
They surely discussed Jesus and His teachings.
This does not take away that Jesus learned from the Holy Spirit.
Didn't you read my entire post?
 
Oct 16, 2018
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Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;​

Since I believe Jesus I believe the were saved, but were not disciples. Salvation and discipleship are two different things.

Jesus: believe and you will be saved
Satan: believe and you won't be saved

Also he was speaking to a mix of believing and unbelieving Jews. He spake to believing Jews, and unbelieving Jews answered:

And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
John 8:45 KJV​

Parable of the sower
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Even though this rocky soil hearer is said to have "believed," yet he is never said to have been "saved." How do we know that the rocky soil hearer was never actually "saved"? Allow me explain the reasons.

First, his heart condition is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer in the 4th soil, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was not "good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. Such soil represents a sinner not properly prepared in heart. People who "believe" and "rejoice" at the preaching of the gospel without a prepared heart, and without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" in themselves, do not experience real salvation.

*Unlike saving faith, temporary shallow belief is not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit, represent saving belief? Also the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons "believe" mental assent that "there is one God," but they are not saved.

John has portrayed people who "believe" but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of genuine or consummated belief resulting in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their belief was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.

Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. YOU CALL THAT SAVED? :unsure:
I read the above and I hate to get into the Greek because I know it's not as easy as it seems.
For John 2:19 I get Pisteveis which means: You believe.
For Luke 8:13 I get Pistevousin which means: Believe it.
John 2:23-25 Jesus did not trust that some truly believed in Him.

I'd say that John 2:23-25 shows that Jesus DID mean what He said in Luke 8:13.
Jesus knew those in John 2 did not really believe, but HE said that those in Luke 8 DID BELIEVE for a while. It seems to work against what you're saying.

As to the good soil...yes, some believe for a while but it's superficial, or they're not grounded and fall away when trouble comes. I'm sure we've all seen this.

But if what you say above is accepted, I'd become very worried about someone's faith. The question would arise: Are they REALLY saved? How could we be sure? Is there a quarantine period until we could know for sure?

You see...it raises more questions than it answers.

Could YOU know that the person who is superficially saved and died the very night they believed, would go to heaven or the other place?

Isn't it incumbent on us to accept that if one BELIEVES he is SAVED??
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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I read the above and I hate to get into the Greek because I know it's not as easy as it seems.
For John 2:19 I get Pisteveis which means: You believe.
For Luke 8:13 I get Pistevousin which means: Believe it.
John 2:23-25 Jesus did not trust that some truly believed in Him.

I'd say that John 2:23-25 shows that Jesus DID mean what He said in Luke 8:13.
Jesus knew those in John 2 did not really believe, but HE said that those in Luke 8 DID BELIEVE for a while. It seems to work against what you're saying.

As to the good soil...yes, some believe for a while but it's superficial, or they're not grounded and fall away when trouble comes. I'm sure we've all seen this.

But if what you say above is accepted, I'd become very worried about someone's faith. The question would arise: Are they REALLY saved? How could we be sure? Is there a quarantine period until we could know for sure?

You see...it raises more questions than it answers.

Could YOU know that the person who is superficially saved and died the very night they believed, would go to heaven or the other place?

Isn't it incumbent on us to accept that if one BELIEVES he is SAVED??
If someone is saved, yet produces no fruit, how can we say they are saved? Faith without works is dead (James 2:14-2). What kind of belief is that? I found the word “believe” (pisteuo) in the Strongs Concordance #4100 for Acts 16:31, Luke 8:13 and James 2:19 and we know that the demons are not saved.

So depending on the context, the word believe can mean “saved,” as in Acts 16:31 or describe a shallow, temporary belief that falls short of saving belief, as in Luke 8:13 or simply describe mere "mental assent" belief about a set of facts about God, as in James 2:19.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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What do you think Paul and Peter discussed?
What do you think Paul and James discussed?
The weather?
I mean, really, do you not think they were human beings?
They surely discussed Jesus and His teachings.
This does not take away that Jesus learned from the Holy Spirit.
Didn't you read my entire post?
Does not matter..neither Peter or James taught Paul anything....He was taught by direct Revelation from JESUS...your premise was wrong.....I gave you two witnesses to prove your error and it is obvious that you cannot admit error and accept the truth and or the correction from the word of God

AND NOW JESUS LEARNED from the HOLY SPIRIT...show me that one in scripture....WOW.......that takes the cake for one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard....JESUS was the WORD INCARNATE and GOD....HAHHA man......

I want to see JESUS learned from the HOLY SPIRIT in scripture...can someone show me that....
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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The Parable of the sower:
Luke 8:13 JESUS said:
"Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.
NASB

JESUS said "they believed for a while". I hear on these threads that we must believe in Jesus to be saved...so if Jesus said they believed for a while, we don't believe Jesus is telling the truth?
They BELIEVED FOR A WHILE and in time of temptation THEY FELL AWAY.


BIBLICAL ERROR , WILL EXPLAIN BELOW.

I don't believe this is anything to debate. Jesus said it, that's it.

You have a very nice testimony. If was also saved at about the age of 28.

As to the rest, you do keep telling me I'm proudful and perhaps not even saved. It's interesting how you could tell who is saved and who isn't.

Apparently you believe in works more than I do....
You believe that persons are saved by their doctrine instead of by Jesus.
This is a huge work. To have to study and believe in a set doctrine in order to be saved.
I can't even think of one verse that says this. Maybe you can?

I'm depending on Jesus to save me, not my theology.


OKAY, you need to learn what JEWS mean when they SAY "I BELIEVE". It is NOT LIKE OUR WORD BELIEVE. It is NOT TALKING ABOUT HEAD KNOWLEDGE, it HAS TO INVOLVE THE WHOLE HEART, or you are Lying about what you claim to BELIEVE. LOOK AS THIS:


James 2:19 (ESV)
19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believeand shudder!


There is HEAD KNOWLEDGE, which is only believing with what lies between your ears.

Do you think DEMONS are SAVED ? ? ?

Here is the Story about the DEMONIACS at GADARA.


Mark 5:6-8 (NKJV)
6 When he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshiped Him.
7 And he cried out with a loud voice and said, "What have I to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore You by God that You do not torment me."
8 For He said to him, "Come out of the man, unclean spirit!"


Here is More of the STORY, the region or county is Gergesa, and the City was Gadara:


Matthew 8:28-32 (NKJV)
28 When He had come to the other side, to the country of the Gergesenes, there met Him two demon-possessed men, coming out of the tombs, exceedingly fierce, so that no one could pass that way.
29 And suddenly they cried out, saying, "What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?"
30 Now a good way off from them there was a herd of many swine feeding.
31 So the demons begged Him, saying, "If You cast us out, permit us to go away into the herd of swine."
32 And He said to them, "Go." So when they had come out, they went into the herd of swine. And suddenly the whole herd of swine ran violently down the steep place into the sea, and perished in the water.


Why did Mark focus only the Spokesperson, and Matthew made it clear there were TWO Demoniacs?
You will have to ask them when we get to heaven.


Mark 5:8-13 (NKJV)
8 For He said to him, "Come out of the man, unclean spirit!"
9 Then He asked him, "What is your name?" And he answered, saying, "My name is Legion; for we are many."
10 Also he begged Him earnestly that He would not send them out of the country.
11 Now a large herd of swine was feeding there near the mountains.
12 So all the demons begged Him, saying, "Send us to the swine, that we may enter them."
13 And at once Jesus gave them permission. Then the unclean spirits went out and entered the swine (there were about two thousand); and the herd ran violently down the steep place into the sea, and drowned in the sea.


NOW, you have the DEMONS bowing in a worshipful position to Jesus, and you have them calling HIM "Jesus, You Son of God", which would amount to Believing according the English Language, so according to your THEORY, they have to be true Christians, right? WRONG. There is something More to BELIEVING to a Jew, that goes BEYOND only acknowledging belief in your mind.

This Story comes from ZOLA LEVITT, who was raised an orthodox Jew, and was led to LORD by a Baptist Minister. He used to have TV ministry before he died and went home to the LORD, where he showed Jews that JESUS was the Messiah, and Christians the history of their Jewish heritage.

{ If two Jews walked up to frozen over lake in early winter.
Jew #1, said to Jew #2, "Do you believe the ice is thick enough to walk on?"
And Jew #2 then said, "Yes, I do believe the ice is thick enough to walk on."
Then Jew #2 walked over to the edge of the ice and gently reached out with one foot, gently pressing down on the ice.
Jew #1 WOULD START YELLING, "LIAR! LIAR! If you really believed the ice was thick enough, you would have boldly walked out there with both feet, putting your whole weight on what you professed to believe!" }

That is what the JEW MEANS BY BELIEVING. YOU HAVE TO PUT YOUR WHOLE WAIT ON WHAT YOU PROFESS YOU BELIEVE IN. Therefore, JESUS being a JEW, meant that our WHOLE HEART, our WHOLE WEIGHT had be on HIM, TOTALLY TRUSTING HIM. That is what BIBLICAL BELIEF REALLY IS, that inner personal love Relationship with Jesus Christ, TOTALLY TRUSTING HIM; not just head knowledge. Now maybe you can UNDERSTAND that this Reason, is why this person was NEVER SAVED, because he only had head knowledge:


1 John 2:4 (NKJV)
4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


SEE IT NOW, NO LOVING LIFESTYLE CHANGE, means he LIED about intimately KNOWING JESUS CHRIST.

Now read this VERSE with the new found Wisdom of Understanding, you now Have.


John 3:16 (NRSV)
16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.


NO ONE who falls away, and did not have the kind of faith that BELIEVES LIKE THAT.

NO ONE who does not produce a harvest, has the kind of faith that BELIEVES like that.

Out of LOVE FOR HIM, we are the ones who have PUT OUR WHOLE TRUST IN JESUS.

So the difference is between Head Knowledge and Heart Knowledge,
Head Knowledge - even the Demons have that kind of knowledge.
Heart Knowledge - only born again Christians have that.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
3,163
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Hi all...I was having some quiet time with our Lord , because in the morning I am going into hospital for a little heart op , and although I know I am saved , I just wanted to confess again to God how much I believe in His Son , and maybe I was checking myself to see if I was still in the faith as I know my op can have complications , so I felt the need to explain my love for Jesus...Anyway , I went over in my head the Scripture of by grace you are saved , and I stopped at the word Grace and pondered , and then the Scripture came to mind where God says My Grace is sufficient for you , and that`s when I thought " wow , God has not said by grace you are saved , not by yourselfs it is a gift from God , now go walk through this life I have given you , but you better check yourself all the way because I won`t be with you , No He said "My Grace is enough " , my eyes were opened some more , sorry if I am not explaining myself well , but I just wanted to post that , My Grace is ENOUGH , nothing added...xox...
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
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Even though this rocky soil hearer is said to have "believed," yet he is never said to have been "saved." How do we know that the rocky soil hearer was never actually "saved"? Allow me explain the reasons.

First, his heart condition is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer in the 4th soil, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was not "good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. Such soil represents a sinner not properly prepared in heart. People who "believe" and "rejoice" at the preaching of the gospel without a prepared heart, and without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" in themselves, do not experience real salvation.

*Unlike saving faith, temporary shallow belief is not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit, represent saving belief? Also the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons "believe" mental assent that "there is one God," but they are not saved.

John has portrayed people who "believe" but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of genuine or consummated belief resulting in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their belief was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.

Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. YOU CALL THAT SAVED? :unsure:
It is written that faith comes from hearing the message. May I know if these 4 kinds of soil refer to those who heard the message but differ in their manner of acceptance and endurance. Did they beieve the message or not? Thanks and God bless.