Not By Works

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GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
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Christ offered his life to save you from the evil choices you made in your life. He didn't die so you could create your own religion or continue to make a mockery of His Word as you did before. I don't believe your old covenant, I believe in the one created by the Word which became Flesh. I have showed you this many times but you can't see it. God tells us why you can't see it in the Law and Prophets, but you don't believe what is written therein. That is a choice you make, it's not God's Fault.



You just condemned me because I didn't go to some religious franchise you approve of. You are so similar to the Catholic church it's funny, but you are oblivious to it.



Wow, you, once again in defence of your religious traditions completely reject and omit the most important part of these scriptures.

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man.

Every part of your religion teaches exactly the opposite of this. Anyone who "Believes" this is labeled a "lawyer" "Pharisee" "fallen from Grace"

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man,

I swear, you can't make this stuff up. The more you preach, the more Christ's Word's come true.



Finally, you finally preach something that is absolutely True. Yes, these folks rejected God's instruction and created their own. They reject the Christ's definition of "Good" "Holy" "Righteous" and had created their own definition of these things. They didn't know the Christ, because they really didn't "BELIEVE" in Him, not the things He said. And this is explained perfectly by the Christ Himself.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

This is why Abraham knew the Christ when He came to him. This is why Zechariahs knew the Christ when He came and the Mainstream Preachers of His time did not. This is exactly why those in Matt. 7, didn't know the Christ, and why the Christ didn't know Him. It's in your Bible, all you have to do is "Believe".



It's not about you or your thoughts or your conscience. Those in Matt. 7 were just as convinced as you and the Catholic church that they are already immortal, already saved. And the Word's the Christ gives us to protect us, you refuse to accept. It's sad to watch and maddening. Nevertheless, God Word remains true whether you "believe " or not.

2 Tim.15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already (That you are already immortal, already saved,) and overthrow the faith of some.

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
I agree with all you've said except allow me one correction.
I was Catholic and I know for sure that the cc doesn't believe that we are already saved.
They do not believe in eternal security. That church believes we will be saved at the end of our life if we hold on to Christ.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
28,783
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I have a Special Request, WHEN YOU HAVE TIME. It may be hard to find an angel, Male, in full battle gear, or at least a large sword, with this portion of scripture on it.


Ephesians 6:11 (HCSB)
11 Put on the full armor of God so that you
can stand against the tactics of the Devil.
Ephesians 6:14-17 (HCSB)
14 Stand, therefore, with truth like a belt around your waist,
righteousness like armor on your chest,
15 and your feet sandaled with readiness for the gospel of peace.
16 In every situation take the shield of faith, and with it you will be able
to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
17 Take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is God’s word.

The angel that I am looking for should look something like the first one this page, but that is a copyrighted image:

So does your clipart Collection has such an angel.

This Gustov Dore drawing, may work as a background. His artwork is from the from the early to mid 1800's.
If it is you do not have one, maybe this one could work. Absolutely NO HURRY, when you got time.

Hello VCO, thank you for making your special request :) If I could find a male angel like the one in the large black and white drawing I would be thrilled, or any male angels, actually, and I have over the last few months spent a fair bit of time looking for some that would be appropriate to use in my graphic creations, mostly to no avail. I am not sure how well using that specific one would be, though, because the background would very much interfere with being able to put the text in properly so that it is centered and legible, because it is so busy, and it would take a fair bit of work for me to isolate the single character to be able to use him solo. I may try to see if I can do it though.

Meanwhile, I was working on a graphic today based on another one of your posts though... 1 Peter 1:3-5.

I just finished it now. Here it is:



I did find one (one!!!) male-looking angel, but it looked like a cartoon character, and more specifically, a Japanese anime character, and I did not really care for that style for what I am doing. I have also used statuary depicting a more male looking angel, but again, I really would prefer something that is angelic but human looking as opposed to being made of stone :)
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
19,753
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Christ offered his life to save you from the evil choices you made in your life. He didn't die so you could create your own religion or continue to make a mockery of His Word as you did before.
Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day to provide for us eternal life (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and we will be saved IF we believe the gospel (Romans 1:16). Choosing to believe the gospel and becoming a Christian is not creating our own religion. Teaching salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works" is making a mockery of His Word by perverting the gospel (Galatians 1:6-9)

I don't believe your old covenant, I believe in the one created by the Word which became Flesh. I have showed you this many times but you can't see it. God tells us why you can't see it in the Law and Prophets, but you don't believe what is written therein. That is a choice you make, it's not God's Fault.
It's not my old covenant and all you continue to show me is how you mix the old covenant with the new covenant (in Hebrew Roots fashion) and also your continued straw man arguments and false accusations.

You just condemned me because I didn't go to some religious franchise you approve of. You are so similar to the Catholic church it's funny, but you are oblivious to it.
That's not what I said at all. Another straw man argument and you are oblivious to it. Jesus made it clear who would be condemned in John 3:18 - “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Wow, you, once again in defence of your religious traditions completely reject and omit the most important part of these scriptures.
Another straw man argument. It's possible for you to dream up just about any false accusation or straw man argument in your delusional world of unbelief. :(

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man.
This is DESCRIPTIVE of believers and NOT works-salvationists. The Roman Catholic church, the Mormon church, the SDA church etc.. ALL claim they hear these sayings of Jesus and do them, yet they ALL pervert the gospel and accuse everyone else who does not agree with their errant theology of not properly obeying Jesus. Sound familiar? :unsure: The wise man does not pervert the gospel (Galatians 1:6-9; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4)

Every part of your religion teaches exactly the opposite of this.
I don't have my own religion, I have a relationship with Jesus Christ (John 17:3). I don't appreciate your slander. You do realize it's a sin to bear false witness against your neighbor, don't you? (Romans 13:9-10). :cautious:

Anyone who "Believes" this is labeled a "lawyer" "Pharisee" "fallen from Grace"
Anyone who is looking to be justified by the law has fallen away from Grace. (Galatians 5:4)

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man,

I swear, you can't make this stuff up. The more you preach, the more Christ's Word's come true.
You are the master of IRONY. :rolleyes:

Finally, you finally preach something that is absolutely True. Yes, these folks rejected God's instruction and created their own. They reject the Christ's definition of "Good" "Holy" "Righteous" and had created their own definition of these things.
Again, those deceived by their own self-righteousness in Matthew 7:22-23 were "outwardly" doing things that also the righteous would do, yet they did not truly know Christ (had no personal relationship with Christ) which stemmed from not truly believing in Him. How are you any different from them? They are trusting in their works for salvation and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Sound familiar? The only difference is you claim they obeyed all the "wrong instructions" and that's why they will not be saved, yet you claim that you have properly obey all the "right instructions" and will be saved based on the merits of your works. That's not faith in Christ, but is faith in WORKS. Christ saves us through faith BASED ON THE MERITS OF HIS FINISHED WORK OF REDEMPTION ALONE AND NOT BASED ON THE MERITS OF OUR WORKS (Romans 3:24-28). You need to wake up!

They didn't know the Christ, because they really didn't "BELIEVE" in Him, not the things He said. And this is explained perfectly by the Christ Himself.
To BELIEVE in Christ is not merely to believe that everything He said was true and it's also not to seek salvation based on the merits of our performance by perfectly obeying all of God's instructions. To BELIEVE in Christ is to trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (Acts 10:43; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5-6; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Philippians 3:9 etc..). (y)

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Believers "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - watch over, guard, keep intact) His commandments as the demonstrative evidence of their love for Jesus and not as the basis or means of their salvation. You have it backwards. In 1 John 2:3, we read - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (demonstrative evidence) if we keep (watch over, guard, keep intact) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

*Salvation is not through obeying all of God's commandments (JESUS IS GOD - John 1:1,14) or faith in our best efforts to obey all of God's commandments (none of us have perfectly obeyed all of God's commandments - Romans 3:23; 6:23). Salvation is through faith in Christ. Do you understand the difference?

This is why Abraham knew the Christ when He came to him. This is why Zechariahs knew the Christ when He came and the Mainstream Preachers of His time did not. This is exactly why those in Matt. 7, didn't know the Christ, and why the Christ didn't know Him. It's in your Bible, all you have to do is "Believe".
I don't believe your Hebrew Roots nonsense or your distorted gospel plan, but I do believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) and I also believe the words of Christ.

It's not about you or your thoughts or your conscience. Those in Matt. 7 were just as convinced as you and the Catholic church that they are already immortal, already saved.
Salvation is not probation. For by grace you have been (past tense) saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8). Believers are in a saved state now (saved from the PENALTY of sin) whether you accept it or not, but we are not yet (saved from the PRESENCE of sin) until we receive our glorified bodies. The Catholic church and I are not in agreement. You are more in agreement with the Catholic church on that and you can't even see it! o_O

And the Word's the Christ gives us to protect us, you refuse to accept. It's sad to watch and maddening. Nevertheless, God Word remains true whether you "believe " or not.
I believe God's Word. What is sad to watch and maddening is your continued false accusations, straw man arguments and slander. Along with your gospel rejecting unbelief.

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already (That you are already immortal, already saved,) and overthrow the faith of some.

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
The resurrection is still yet future, but that does not mean we have not yet been saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8) NOW. *There are 3 tenses to salvation that often get confused by works-salvationists. 1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) 3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification) So enough with the false accusations. They are not helping your case at all. :(
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
19,753
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I agree with all you've said except allow me one correction. I was Catholic and I know for sure that the cc doesn't believe that we are already saved. They also do not believe in eternal security. That church believes we will be saved at the end of our life if we hold on to Christ.
I was raised in the Roman Catholic church and can also testify they do not believe that we are already saved. *Studyman needs to get his facts straight.* They also certainly do not believe in eternal security. Prior to my conversion, while still attending the RCC several years ago, I lived in continuous fear and bondage to IN-security! :eek: As a converted, born again believer in Christ, I no longer live in fear and bondage to IN-security. Praise God! :D
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,321
17,841
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I was raised in the Roman Catholic church and can also testify they do not believe that we are already saved. *Studyman needs to get his facts straight.* They also certainly do not believe in eternal security. Prior to my conversion, while still attending the RCC several years ago, I lived in continuous fear and bondage to IN-security! :eek: As a converted, born again believer in Christ, I no longer live in fear and bondage to IN-security. Praise God! :D
Amen to the fact that you were delivered from that cult.....
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,321
17,841
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I direct quoted the following verses in another thread about free will, made no comments and was told by Ping Pong that according to my theology he had to disagree with me and then railed on me for a full page......

The wicked go astray from the womb

The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.

On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?

You turn things around! Shall the potter be considered as equal with the clay, That what is made would say to its maker, "He did not make me"; Or what is formed say to him who formed it, "He has no understanding "?

"Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker-- An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?' Or the thing you are making say, 'He has no hands '?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,321
17,841
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Nice sunny chilly morning here in Mark Twain National Forest in Missouri.....Good morning PEEPS and another day fully covered by the grace of God, sealed by the Holy Spirit and fully retaining the FREE IRREVOCABLE GIFT of ETERNAL life based upon GRACE and FAITH void of any an ALL works by MAN to obtain or retain SALVATION.......
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
19,753
8,175
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I direct quoted the following verses in another thread about free will, made no comments and was told by Ping Pong that according to my theology he had to disagree with me and then railed on me for a full page......

The wicked go astray from the womb

The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.

On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?

You turn things around! Shall the potter be considered as equal with the clay, That what is made would say to its maker, "He did not make me"; Or what is formed say to him who formed it, "He has no understanding "?

"Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker-- An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?' Or the thing you are making say, 'He has no hands '?
Ping Pong? LOL :LOL: Proverbs 58:3 - The wicked are estranged from the womb; They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.

Ping Pong will probably also disagree with Psalm 51:5 - Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,259
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I direct quoted the following verses in another thread about free will, made no comments and was told by
Ping Pong that according to my theology he had to disagree with me and then railed on me for a full page......

The wicked go astray from the womb

The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.

On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?

You turn things around! Shall the potter be considered as equal with the clay, That what is made would say to its maker, "He did not make me"; Or what is formed say to him who formed it, "He has no understanding "?

"Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker-- An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?' Or the thing you are making say, 'He has no hands '?
Amen decon, and "who can resist His will", never heard of ping pong? :)
 
Sep 9, 2018
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Go to the freewill thread and you will figure out who it is.......
The freewill thread was started because of a thread I posted . . . and the author kept taunting me on my view. It was a classic situation of not feeling like casting pearls before swine. If he wants to know my position on the issue he can read my threads . . . I'll probably kick the tires on that one eventually. He just couldn't get past the fact that Christians sin even though they have been bought with a price. Well, he is going to unfortunately find out that his own merits are filthy rags and by then it might be too late to matter.
 
Sep 9, 2018
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I knew a preacher once when asked if he does any counseling, answered, "Sure! I do counseling on Sunday morning, Sunday evening and Wednesday night. Come on out and get some!"