Not By Works

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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This verse makes my point. The Mainstream Preacher was convinced he was "saved" all set, already made righteous by his own religious traditions. (God's instructions do not include fasting twice a week, that is a religious work like those in Matt. 7.)

But the tax collector humbled himself before God and acknowledged His Glory,, understood his weakness, admitted his sin and asked for mercy.

He didn't beg for money, he didn't tell God he was already immortal.

"For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled," (I am saved already, already immortal)

"those who humble themselves will be exalted" (Show me the way God, your works are righteousness while mine as filthy rags)
He acknowledged his sin. What was his sin if not a failure to do good works (obey the law faultlessly)?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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That is why Scripture says, If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. Romans 10:9-10 Believing in your heart means your innermost self. When you believe something in your innermost self, it becomes the bedrock upon which you live your life. Knowing what is true is pretty important :) When Jesus is your Truth, half the battle is won (y)

Than "innermost self" is the human spirit. And it says CONFESS, not just profess. Therefore it has to be true in your Heart in your Human Spirit, that you have willingly surrendered to JESUS as LORD of you Life, out of LOVE FOR HIM; before it can be a Confession. If you say out loud a prayer with TOTAL MEANING like, "Forgive ME, I am a sinner, I want YOU JESUS to Come into my heart to be my Personal LORD". HE IS ALREADY THERE BEFORE YOU CAN VERBALIZE. Or sometimes it is a silent Prayer and you excitedly telling another Christian, "I received Jesus as my Lord." That to constitutes a CONFESSION. How do I know He his in your Heart before you can verbalize it? ONE, the Holy Spirit has to be in your Heart to WANT TO. Second, see this Verse:

Revelation 3:20 (HCSB)
20 Listen! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and have dinner with him, and he with Me.

He wants to be INVITED INTO YOUR HEART TO RULE.


I used to teach the INMATES when I was a Volunteer Chaplain, this way pertaining to the word CONFESS. "If you say that you Confess that you robbed a bank in N.Y. City, and you have never been in N.Y. City in your life; is that a Confession or just a Profession?" You know, that got the answer RIGHT every time they answered that question. Then I would go on to say, "The same is true about Confessing JESUS AS YOUR LORD. It has to have really taken place in your Heart (human spirit), before you can say it as a CONFESSION. Other wise it is only a Profession, and you have a name for that, it is 'Jail House Religion', and you can put that down as you parole and go out the door; but a TRUE CONFESSION will remain with you for the rest of your Life.

Their expression is ABSOLUTELY TRUE, the ones who can walk away and never come back to Christ, ONLY HAD "JAIL HOUSE RELIGION", which is not the Real McCoy {phony faith}.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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Nice twist.....NO and WRONG.....it was directed at those who claimed the LORD and their right to ENTER because of what they had done (their many wonderous works in the name of JESUS)



Not that I disagree with what you are saying(I'm not arguing,lol) but I wonder something...
"when do you believe you were actually saved, was it at some point between the time you were born and today or before you were ever born?"
PS I'm not meaning "when you (realized it),but when you see that "it" took place"...
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Not that I disagree with what you are saying (I'm not arguing, lol) but I wonder something...
"when do you believe you were actually saved, was it at some point between the time you were born and today or before you were ever born?"
PS I'm not meaning "when you (realized it), but when you see that "it" took place"...
God knew who were His before the foundation of the world...
but we can only know it as a fact once we come to believe.


God knows the end from the beginning... :)
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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God knew who were His before the foundation of the world...
but we can only know it as a fact once we come to believe.


God knows the end from the beginning... :)

Thank you for your response but in specific I was not asking what "God knows" but what (DC) thinks/knows about it...
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,736
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True this.

I have always wondered WHY.
And im not on some self-righteous "Ooh why are people sinning so much?" nonsense. Im talking about MYSELF. Im looking back at my life and there are SO MANY THINGS that i should of done different or leave undone completely.
I can definately recognize myself from that, either im just extra-wicked or some others can feel me on this one: Isnt it strange how when we men are growing up, we are always attracted to evil from the very beginning? Even in comic books you could see it, I was always into the most wicked characters in those comic books, the skeleton demon looking creatures. Like Venom and Carnage from spider-man. WHY wasnt I ever into something good and wholesome?

You fast-forward a bit from that and the streets are calling.... WHY wasnt I attracted to getting a wholesome christian wife, working hard for my bread?
Why was I attracted to streets and evil women?????

Im seriously asking, does ANYONE know why? And can anyone relate, or am i just extra-wicked?


It is the SIN NATURE that you inherited from ADAM.

You NEED to Pray a Prayer like this, preferably out loud, BUT MEAN IT WITH YOUR WHOLE BEING.

"Forgive ME, I am a sinner, I want YOU JESUS to Come into my heart to be my Personal LORD, my MASTER".

Then you can claim and TRUST IN THIS VERSE TOTALLY:

1 John 4:4 (HCSB)
4 You are from God, little children, and you have conquered them, because the One who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.


It will be difficult at first, but as you FEED your human spirit on the WORD OF GOD and learn to TOTALLY TRUST IN JESUS, it will get easier and easier to Resist the Temptation of the Devil.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,736
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Thank you for your response but in specific I was not asking what "God knows" but what (DC) thinks/knows about it...
I think you will find that most of us on this Site as a TEAM on the SAME FIELD. We are in harmony about our Beliefs.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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It's not about you or me Post. It's about what the Word of God teaches, ALL of it, not just the words you can twist to further your religious traditions.
great - but i don't see the phrase 'come as you are religion' in scripture anywhere. so i don't know what you mean by it.
i know, the pharisees didn't '
come as they were' but were obsessed clean & unclean states of their physical bodies. 4 dips in the mikveh before you come and don't go on a sabbath-day; it's too far, and whatnot.

so what do you mean by '
come as you are religion' ?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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True this.

I have always wondered WHY.
And im not on some self-righteous "Ooh why are people sinning so much?" nonsense. Im talking about MYSELF. Im looking back at my life and there are SO MANY THINGS that i should of done different or leave undone completely.
I can definately recognize myself from that, either im just extra-wicked or some others can feel me on this one: Isnt it strange how when we men are growing up, we are always attracted to evil from the very beginning? Even in comic books you could see it, I was always into the most wicked characters in those comic books, the skeleton demon looking creatures. Like Venom and Carnage from spider-man. WHY wasnt I ever into something good and wholesome?

You fast-forward a bit from that and the streets are calling.... WHY wasnt I attracted to getting a wholesome christian wife, working hard for my bread?
Why was I attracted to streets and evil women?????

Im seriously asking, does ANYONE know why? And can anyone relate, or am i just extra-wicked?
I think God answers your question my friend.

Gen. 6:
11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

Jer. 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Rom. 8:
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

James 4:
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

I believe we must first accept the truth about our self, before we can love others as we do our self. God has prepared a way for this to happen.

Is. 58:
6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

John 3:
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


I believe that the serpent, using some of God's Word as it did to Eve, disguised as Ministers of Righteousness, works to convince people that they are already saved and already immortal, and that we don't "need" much of God's Words because they are against us. Since God's Word shows us our sin, makes our deeds manifest to us, if we are convinced we don't need them, we remain hidden from our own wickedness, like those in Matthew 7.

I believe this natural "Enmity" we carry is the "Cross" we bear. But with His help, if we follow His Saying, we can overcome this "flesh", and if we "put on the whole Armor of God" we can be protected from the "Ministers of Righteousness" which work to convince us of things which are not true.

I think it is important to listen to the Word of God which became Flesh for our instructions and not the "Other Voice" which deceived Eve.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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I think you will find that most of us on this Site as a TEAM on the SAME FIELD. We are in harmony about our Beliefs.

lol,oh,thanks for telling me I have only been a member of CC for two years longer than you.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
30,038
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This verse makes my point. The Mainstream Preacher was convinced he was "saved" all set, already made righteous by his own religious traditions. (God's instructions do not include fasting twice a week, that is a religious work like those in Matt. 7.)
The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.
robbery is condemned in the law of the covenant.
evildoers are condemned in the law of the covenant.
adultery is condemned in the law of the covenant.
usury is condemned in the law of the covenant.
tithing is commanded in the law of the covenant.


are you saying that fasting is his only wrong, dude?

is fasting wrong?

((Leviticus 16:29-30; 23:27-31, Numbers 29:7, Jeremiah 36:6, Acts 27:9, Judges 20:26, Exodus 34:28, Deuteronomy 9:9, 1 Samuel 7:6, 1 Kings 21:9,12, 2 Chronicles 20:3, Jonah 3:5, Ezra 8:21-23, Esther 4:3,16; 9:31, 1 Samuel 31:13; 1 Chronicles 10:12, 1 Samuel 20:34, 2 Samuel 1:12, Nehemiah 1:4, Daniel 6:18, Ezra 10:6-9; Esther 4:16, Acts 9:9, Daniel 10:3, 2 Kings 25:25, Jeremiah 41:1-2, Zechariah 7:5, Zechariah 8:19, Luke 2:37, Acts 9:9, Acts 10:3,30, Acts 13:2, Acts 14:23, Matthew 9:14-17, Mark 2:18-22 & Luke 5:33-39 all seem to contradict that opinion))


what is this man saying about himself by boasting of twice-weekly fasts?
he joins it to tithing. he denies himself 2/7 and gives 1/10 to God. what does this mean?
he denies himself 2/7 and offers God 35% of what he denies himself. and he's proud of that.
is that good? what does he do with the other 65% of what he denies himself? why doesn't he give it?
does he add it to himself, for 5 days gorging himself with 114.3%? does he horde it?
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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Mixing grace with works is NOT what God tells us to do. It is BY His grace, that we are saved FOR good works.. Good works won't get you into heaven. Nor will they secure you a ticket to salvation..

I dunno where you get this from, but it's absolute bull :poop::poop:..
You are saved for good works, the question is; What happens if you do not do those good works?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Thank you for your response but in specific I was not asking what "God knows" but what (DC) thinks/knows about it...
I realize you were asking David... and I find this an interesting question, also: when was I saved? How can we know? We can only know we are saved when we repent and believe. Were we saved before then? God knew who were His before the foundation of the world. How else can the question be answered? I do realize also there are those who say we cannot know we are saved until the very end. I disagree with that view, and so does 1 John 5:13 :)

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Knowing we have eternal life is the equivalent of knowing we are saved :)

 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one (Jew and Gentile) that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. (Not come as they are as you preach)
((it's really disrespectful IMO to insert your own words into the scripture, dude.))

so you preach 'come as you are religion' = 'don't depart from iniquity' ?

  • we thoroughly covered and discarded that particular strawman argument in this thread 3,730 pages ago.
    • catch up :cool:
  • no one preaches 'revel in iniquity'
    • that's slanderous of you to accuse.
    • slander/ bearing false witness is bad fruit.
    • it's clearly condemned in the law and clearly condemned in Christ.
  • if that's your definition of 'come as you are religion' it should properly be called 'stay as you are religion.' i find your private phraseology as deceptive as your refusal to define your personal vocabulary.
    • study up ;)
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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great - but i don't see the phrase 'come as you are religion' in scripture anywhere. so i don't know what you mean by it.
i know, the pharisees didn't '
come as they were' but were obsessed clean & unclean states of their physical bodies. 4 dips in the mikveh before you come and don't go on a sabbath-day; it's too far, and whatnot.


so what do you mean by 'come as you are religion' ?
Yes, the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time rejected God's instructions and created their own. They were told to "Repent" of their lawless religion, not "come as you are". But as is the custom of religious man, they refused.

No repentance.

I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. (Don't "Come as you are)

Abraham didn't come as he was either.

Gen.
1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: (Don't come as you are)
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him

The Christ clearly said not to "Come as you are".

38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Paul also taught the same thing.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent (Not come as you are) and turn to God,(not come as you are) and do works meet (worthy) for repentance. (not come as you are)
 
Sep 9, 2018
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Funny, the Bible clearly presents a 'come as your are' message . . .

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool" (Isaiah 1:18).

You gotta feel really bad about the cults and their man-made fig leaves. The Bible is a completely closed-book to them because God refuses to open their eyes, since they are more interested in telling Him how it is.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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((it's really disrespectful IMO to insert your own words into the scripture, dude.))

so you preach 'come as you are religion' = 'don't depart from iniquity' ?

  • we thoroughly covered and discarded that particular strawman argument in this thread 3,730 pages ago.
    • catch up :cool:
  • no one preaches 'revel in iniquity'
    • that's slanderous of you to accuse.
    • slander/ bearing false witness is bad fruit.
    • it's clearly condemned in the law and clearly condemned in Christ.
  • if that's your definition of 'come as you are religion' it should properly be called 'stay as you are religion.' i find your private phraseology as deceptive as your refusal to define your personal vocabulary.
    • study up ;)
You hear what you want, not what I say. IMO, you do the same to the Word of God.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Funny, the Bible clearly presents a 'come as your are' message . . .

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool" (Isaiah 1:18).

You gotta feel really bad about the cults and their man-made fig leaves. The Bible is a completely closed-book to them because God refuses to open their eyes, since they are more interested in telling Him how it is.
It has always fascinated me how mainstream preachers can use one scripture to try and justify their religious traditions, but reject the same Prophet's words when his words condemn their religion.

Is. 1:
16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

20 But if ye refuse and rebel, (Come as you are) ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.