Not By Works

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dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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Any deeds of righteousness not done through HIS Spirit are of our own accord and are as filthily rags. Many will come in that day; saying, have we not done this good deed and that? And the LORD shall say, get behind me ye that work iniquity. For it is GOD that works in you both to will and do HIS good pleasure! HE doeth the work!


And this is eternal life; that we may know the Father and the Son whom HE sent. HE in us; us in HIM that HIS will be done. That the world may believe.
WOW.......let's just stitch a handful of scriptures together, or rather parts of scripture so as to make our own verses of the bible.....
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
41,527
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you have a very low view of God to believe He *risks* anything.
you make Him out to be ignorant, powerless and temporal.
He has already devalued Jesus to a street organ player in Bombay by his drivel......no big surprise he would say the above....Jesus risked nothing and to say that is idiotic....
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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Morning all...For those who believe Salvation comes when we face Almighty God , maybe this Scripture will help you...

2 Corinthians 6:2
2 For He says:
“In an acceptable time I have heard you,
And in the day of salvation I have helped you.”
Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation...

Today is the day , tomorrow could be to late , God saved us the day He called us and we answered Him , those who answered His call and said " Yes LORD , here I am " and have accepted our LORD Jesus Christ as our Savior are Gods children today , those who believe that they are only saved when face the LORD will not receive the Kingdom of God...I truly hope your eyes will be opened , in Jesus name Amen...

Psalm 118:24
This is the day the Lord has made;
We will rejoice and be glad in it. ..Tomorrow is not guaranteed , seek the LORD and He will be found...xox...
Morning Rose........thanks for the verses...Keep swinging sister........
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
41,527
13,998
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You do not get it.

If you tell me I believe or preach something that i don’t and time after time you continue to do so even though you are told by person after person we do not believe that. Thus, you have lost the ability or the priviledge of having anyone listen to you, you are untrustworthy when you can not even humble yourself to listen to others.

Don’t demand people to listen to you when you refuse to listen to them.
Why would we want to listen to his blather.....He does not even believe in the deity of Christ and thinks Christ took a chance when he went to the cross.....<--RISKED is the word he used....
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
6,962
2,758
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WOW.......let's just stitch a handful of scriptures together, or rather parts of scripture so as to make our own verses of the bible.....
the funny/ sad thing about this- they decry the Pharisees for creating their own laws on top of the Torah. then they take the Bible and do the same thing the Pharisees did- they just pluck out verses and write their own Bible.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
41,527
13,998
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I have stated to you many times- Jesus was fully God and fully man.

he said of Himself- " I can lay my life down and take it up again. no one can take it from me".

the Disciples said Him " who is this that even the wind and rain obey Him." obey Him. studyman. not the Father,

oh, and then there's this " Lazarus come forth ".
Can you believe the Anti-Biblical drivel he quoted in that post.............WOW.......deceived is a word that does not even come close.....
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,962
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HBG. Pa. USA
Any deeds of righteousness not done through HIS Spirit are of our own accord and are as filthily rags. Many will come in that day; saying, have we not done this good deed and that? And the LORD shall say, get behind me ye that work iniquity. For it is GOD that works in you both to will and do HIS good pleasure! HE doeth the work!


And this is eternal life; that we may know the Father and the Son whom HE sent. HE in us; us in HIM that HIS will be done. That the world may believe.
WOW.......let's just stitch a handful of scriptures together, or rather parts of scripture so as to make our own verses of the bible.....
No it's not.
So it is you that wills and does GOD'S good pleasure when doing as GOD would deem? You do the work not GOD through HIS Spirit. Are you alive rather than dead and the life you now live is through you and not the Faith of Christ?
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,962
439
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HBG. Pa. USA
the funny/ sad thing about this- they decry the Pharisees for creating their own laws on top of the Torah.
Where have I said such?
[then they take the Bible and do the same thing the Pharisees did- they just pluck out verses and write their own Bible.
So it is you that works and wills GOD's good pleasure? You are alive and not dead. And the life you now live is not by the faith of Son of GOD?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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You do not get it.

If you tell me I believe or preach something that i don’t and time after time you continue to do so even though you are told by person after person we do not believe that. Thus, you have lost the ability or the priviledge of having anyone listen to you, you are untrustworthy when you can not even humble yourself to listen to others.

Don’t demand people to listen to you when you refuse to listen to them.
You said this EG.


"Your problem is you deny the power of God to change those people" These are your words directed at me. I listened to them and responded, and you ignored completely my response.

I responded because I do listen to you EG. I have stacks of your posts printed, especially your older ones, and me and several others in my church have studied separately so we can each fully understand what you preach without bias, as is my custom. It is for this reason that I reply to your posts in the first place. It is your custom, not mine to refuse to listen to others. I think you might be confusing "agreeing to your preaching" with "listening to your preaching". Just because I don't agree with your religion, doesn't mean I don't listen to it, or understand it. And you are the one who says I believe what I don't believe as your own words expose above.

But I don't care about all this he said she said high school foolishness, I care about what the scriptures actually say.

I agree that God has the POWER to save everybody, to change EVERYBODY.

But He doesn't "change or save" everybody, even though it is His desire that they live forever. Do you deny this?

Matt. 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, (Why didn't He, doesn't He have the power?) even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Now so far in your posts I have studied you preach that "Faith" is given by God, I don't have it unless He gives it to me. If this is not correct, please let me know and correct it for me.

And all "good Works" that we do are not a result of anything we do, but the Christ manipulating our flesh to produce them.

And also that every "Christian" WILL PRODUCE "good works" as the Spirit of Christ will "change them", not by any desire a human has, but by the supernatural force of the Spiritual God.

God has this power, and will use this Power on ALL of HIS People.

That is part of what my understanding of your religious belief is. If this is not true, then show me how I am mistaken.

So given this religion, why didn't the Christ exhibit His Power and "change" His own Levite Priests? He wanted to, He had the power to. Why did He "change you and your friends" to do "Good Works" but not His own Levite Priests?

Matt. 7:
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Lawlessness)

These people believed in Him, you can't deny that. They spread His Word to others, they helped people who had infirmities brought on by the devil.

Why didn't the Christ give them the FAITH you preach He gave to you and your friends? Why did HE "Change you" with His Power, that we both agree He had, but not them? How come did the Christ give you Salvation that could never be lost no matter what, but refused to give them even Faith?

But we can see that both the Mainstream Preachers of Christ Time, and those "MANY" who call the Christ, Lord, Lord "believed" that they were "changed" by His Power. They both "Believed" they were children of Abraham.

But their "BELIEF" alone did not same them.

You also "BELIEVE" you are already saved and immortal, no matter what. If fact, all your friends on this forum "believe" this along with millions and millions of Folks who follow your region. All these "MANY" who call HIM Lord, Lord, also "believe" just as the Mainstream Preachers of His Time, believed they were on the right path.

Now here is what causes the division between you and I.

The Christ rejected the Mainstream Preachers of His Time even though we both agree HE had the Power to save them, because, in His Own WORDS:

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Not God)

And of those "Christians" that He rejected in Matt. 7, even though He had the Power to Save them, He didn't because in His Own Words:

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Lawlessness)

So you and the entire Mainstream Christians franchises of the world "work iniquity" EG. You brag about how you are already given immortality even though you "work iniquity". How God's Laws are only for the Jews. You even did a whole study, which I printed, which was labeled. "God's Laws are not for the Christian".

Now how is it the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time were deceived into rejecting God's instructions, and those "MANY" Christians in Matt. 7 were deceived into rejecting God's instructions and all these were rejected by the Christ.

But you, also convinced into rejecting God's instructions, are "changed" by the power of God, and given immortality the minute you do this or that, no matter what?

What if the Bible is right, and it is you who are deceived? Wouldn't you want to know that?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
6,962
2,758
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Where have I said such? So it is you that works and wills GOD's good pleasure? You are alive and not dead. And the life you now live is not by the faith of Son of GOD?
I am not wasting my time showing you anything else. I have shown you your own words about keeping the Sabbath to be saved, you just deny what you yourself wrote.

so, if you are going to write something today, then deny it tomorrow , you seem to have no sense of honesty, so no one can show you anything unless you are willing to be consistent in your own words.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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You said this EG.


"Your problem is you deny the power of God to change those people" These are your words directed at me. I listened to them and responded, and you ignored completely my response.
Yes you did respond. Here is your response. Which also proves me right, in what I said about you and WHY you do not deserve a response.


I agree that God has the POWER to save everybody, to change EVERYBODY. And I know you are convinced you are already immortal.[/qute]

1. I do not believe I am immortal. So you are wrong.



But He doesn't "change or save" everybody, even though it is His desire that they live forever. At least according to Him and His Holy Word's which I truly believe..
2. I do not believe this either. Still have absolutely no idea why you would say such a thing concerning me.

Matt. 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, (Why didn't He, doesn't He have the power?) even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

You preach the Christ does everything for us, and that we have absolutely no part in the matter. This is simply not Biblically true. He could have "Changed" the hearts of His Levite Priests anytime He wanted, but He didn't.
I have NEVER taught what I have bolded in your post.

So already, your response is based with three things I HAVE NEVER SAID, BELIEVED OR INSINUATED IN ANY POST I EVER MADE.

So you lost the possibility of having me even read the rest of your post. Because if you can not get this part right, how can I or anyone else expet you bgot anythign else right.

Again, You want me to respond to you? Learn what I believe or learn what we all believe. Because as long as you continue to respond with false truths about us. Don;t expect us to respond back .
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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515
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="mailmandan, post: 3746149, member: 193497"]Your "definition" of "believe" is "obedience/works," as is the definition of faith/believe for Roman Catholics and other works-salvationists as well. It's all about WORKS SALVATION with you in Hebrew Roots fashion (similar to SDA's) as you have demonstrated numerous times. :(

Here is a statement below from a Roman Catholic who makes the same error that you do in defining faith/believe:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being water baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

For you, "faith/believe" is "defined" as "obeying commandments, statues, laws," as demonstrated by your argument from Genesis 26:4. You don't seem to make a "distinction" between faith "and" works in your religion. :cautious:
The Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time mixed Pagan religion with God's instructions and their own lust to create a religion which "Transgresses God's Commandments by their own traditions. As a result, the Christ told them:

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.


The Pharisees transgressed God's Commandments and were rejected by the Christ. The "Christians" in Matt. 7, Transgressed the Commandments of God and were rejected by the Christ. In your own words, the catholic Church transgressed the Commandments of God by their own religious traditions and is rejected by the Christ.

And yet, after all these warnings and examples, you also reject God's Laws and have created your own religion, and you are also convinced you are "SAVED" no matter what. I don't believe the serpent, I don't believe the Pharisees, I don't believe the Pope. I think the only way to endure in this evil time is to live by "EVERY WORD of God, not the smooth sounding religions of the world, that you ardently defend.

What's interesting and ironic is that prior to making this statement to me, this Roman Catholic told me that the Roman Catholic church "does not teach salvation by works," yet he clearly contradicted himself by that statement above in blue. :cautious:
The Catholics do not teach obedience to God, The Pharisees did not teach obedience to God, you do not teach obedience to God, and the deceiver, the Prince of this world, disguised as Ministers of Righteousness doesn't teach obedience to God.

But the Christ does teach obedience to God. Abraham did obey God.

In Genesis 15:15, we read - Then He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.” 6 Abram believed the Lord, and He credited it to him as righteousness.

*Nothing there in Genesis 15:5-6 about Abram "kept my charge, my commandments, my statues and my laws" and it was "credited to him for righteousness." That is not the definition of believe and what you are teaching is salvation by works -- Hebrew Roots smoke and mirrors. :(
As is the custom of the Mainstream Preachers of the World, you only use Parts of God's Word to further your religion, because if you used ALL of His Words, you would be exposed.

Gen. 12:
1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him

This same Christ said the same thing to me Dan.

Matt. 10:
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Should I not also consider these scriptures in my Christian walk?

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22 and the declaration in Genesis 26.

The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was "shown to be righteous." When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.



God gave Abraham instructions and He obeyed them. The contrast is so stark that my 5 year old grandson can "SEE" it. But the "other religious voice" preaches against obedience. It preaches a Faith which has no obedience. Abraham didn't have such a Faith. I would not know this if I listened to you, or the pope, or the other Mainstream Preachers of today. Only by listening to the Word of God have I learned this. This is part of the Armor of God I am instructed to "put on" so that the devil doesn't deceive me as it did Eve. Of course, you are convinced you are already immortal no matter what, so why would you need the Armor of God.

For if Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works. :)(y)


You have, once again omitted a very important Biblical Fact of this message. The Mainstream Preachers of this time were still pushing obsolete Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "Works of the Law" for justification and remission of past sins. Levi wasn't yet born in Abrahams time, yet he was justified. Not by the "Works of the Law" instituted by God through Moses "till the seed should come" but by Faith, shown by His obedience in all that the Christ instructed Him to do.

You will notice by actually studying ALL of God's Word that all the Faithful mentioned in the Faith Chapter had one thing in common. they all strived to "cling to God" and His Word. Some fell, made mistakes, but ALL repented and continued to show their "Faithfulness" to God.

I have yet to hear you, Post, EG, Decon, G9, TT, VCO, any of your modern mainstream "Christians" EVER mention, discuss, praise, or show respect for these men who put God and His Words, not their local religion, first in their life.

You are told to consider them.

Heb. 12:
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

In your religion, you are already saved, already immortal. The great cloud of witnesses are irrelevant.

You are not even running a race, that would be "working to earn salvation" in your religion.

Had Abraham refused to leave His kindred, would He still be blessed? Had Abraham refused to leave his fathers religion, would he still be considered righteous?

I really hope you will step back a little and consider "EVERY WORD which proceeds from the mouth of God". I don't believe there is any other way to break the heavy burdens and the yoke of deception the Prince of this world has placed on the people. It's right there, all you need to do is "believe" enough to "Follow" as the Christ instructed.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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You said this EG.


"Your problem is you deny the power of God to change those people" These are your words directed at me. I listened to them and responded, and you ignored completely my response.
Let me try this again, since the formatting got messed up due to typo.

Yes you did respond. Here is your response. Which also proves me right, in what I said about you and WHY you do not deserve a response.


Studyman said:
I agree that God has the POWER to save everybody, to change EVERYBODY. And I know you are convinced you are already immortal.
1. I do not believe I am immortal. So you are wrong.


But He doesn't "change or save" everybody, even though it is His desire that they live forever. At least according to Him and His Holy Word's which I truly believe..
2. I do not believe this either. Still have absolutely no idea why you would say such a thing concerning me.

Matt. 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, (Why didn't He, doesn't He have the power?) even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

You preach the Christ does everything for us, and that we have absolutely no part in the matter. This is simply not Biblically true. He could have "Changed" the hearts of His Levite Priests anytime He wanted, but He didn't.
I have NEVER taught what I have bolded in your post.

So already, your response is based with three things I HAVE NEVER SAID, BELIEVED OR INSINUATED IN ANY POST I EVER MADE.

So you lost the possibility of having me even read the rest of your post. Because if you can not get this part right, how can I or anyone else expet you bgot anythign else right.

Again, You want me to respond to you? Learn what I believe or learn what we all believe. Because as long as you continue to respond with false truths about us. Don;t expect us to respond back .
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
515
113
Yes you did respond. Here is your response. Which also proves me right, in what I said about you and WHY you do not deserve a response.
Nice deflection, of course you don't want to discuss scriptures and questions which bring your religion into question.

And don't get mad at me for believing what you have written a hundred times on this forum.

"I am saved" I can never lose this status. Eternal security is reserved for me. "ETERNAL SECURITY". How is this not claiming immortality? Of course, you will deflect here as well.

The Mainstream Preachers of Christ's Time hated Him, not because He didn't understand their religion, but because He did. I think I have a pretty good grasp on what you believe if your own words are what I am to go by.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
515
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Let me try this again, since the formatting got messed up due to typo.

Yes you did respond. Here is your response. Which also proves me right, in what I said about you and WHY you do not deserve a response.




1. I do not believe I am immortal. So you are wrong.



2. I do not believe this either. Still have absolutely no idea why you would say such a thing concerning me.


I have NEVER taught what I have bolded in your post.

So already, your response is based with three things I HAVE NEVER SAID, BELIEVED OR INSINUATED IN ANY POST I EVER MADE.

So you lost the possibility of having me even read the rest of your post. Because if you can not get this part right, how can I or anyone else expet you bgot anythign else right.

Again, You want me to respond to you? Learn what I believe or learn what we all believe. Because as long as you continue to respond with false truths about us. Don;t expect us to respond back .
You have said that I have "NOTHING" to do with my own salvation. "Not by Works" is the name of this thread. You have said Nothing I do before Salvation has a bearing, and EVERYTHING I do after Salvation is the Christ doing it for me.

I can't take credit for repentance, Faith, or any work, God's work or man's work.

You have ridiculed Hiz, me, and many others who would question this religious belief by Words spoken by the Word of God over and over.
You call me a Legalist, a Pharisee, your buddies have called me worse. And now you are saying you don't believe what you have posted so many times I have lost track.

Come on EG. Are you Really going there just so you don't have to discuss these scriptures??
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Nice deflection, of course you don't want to discuss scriptures and questions which bring your religion into question.

And don't get mad at me for believing what you have written a hundred times on this forum.

"I am saved" I can never lose this status. Eternal security is reserved for me. "ETERNAL SECURITY". How is this not claiming immortality? Of course, you will deflect here as well.

The Mainstream Preachers of Christ's Time hated Him, not because He didn't understand their religion, but because He did. I think I have a pretty good grasp on what you believe if your own words are what I am to go by.
Its no deflection dude, and I am done with you.

I will die as all people die. Thus I am not immortal.

Now if you want to talk about eternal life, which John said I have. Thats another question.

If you ever want to humble yourself and discuss what people really believe, let me know.