Thank you Bill.
Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.
The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God.
Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why resist them?
Does a person who teaches obedience to God causes another person to sin by doing so?
Would any person who don't have FAITH in God teach obedience to God? Or would the deceiver be TEACHING obedience to God as a deception? Would he not rather teach DISOBEDIENCE in His attempt to deceive the believers?
Is it not those who condemn those who teach obedience to God who DOES NOT HAVE FAITH in God and CAUSES A PERSON TO SIN?
Is it not that sin is the transgression of the law?(1 john 3:4)
Is it obedience to God to break the law?
Who then causes another person to sin?
...At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
2 He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3 And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 “And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6 But IF ANYONE CAUSES ONE OF THESE LITTLE ONES WHO “BELIEVE” IN ME TO SIN, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
7 “Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but WOE TO THE MAN THROUGH WHOM THEY COME FROM! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be THROWN INTO ETERNAL FIRE. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be THROWN INTO THE FIRE OF HELL. matthew 18:1-9
...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. ephesians 5:6
God bless.
Evening.
Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by "Believe God when it comes to Adam & Eve"
My thought pattern is that they did not have to believe in God (the one true God) because he walked with them in the garden. It was a personal relationship
So this is different from you and me.
We only came to know the true God when we placed our faith in Jesus who came in the flesh, was crucified, died and rose again to reconcile us to the Father, our Abba Father.
Then we can approach the throne of God.
Romans 5:1-5
Faith Triumphs in Trouble
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
So we come to believe in God.
It's as a result of being justified by faith that we come to believe in God and have this personal relationship that Adam & Eve had.
Teaching obedience is not the issue.
It's the teaching of the obedience to determine the outcome which is the issue.
Is obedience to earn salvation or is it because we love Jesus?
Afterall Jesus said "If you love me"
This is what seperated the sheep from the goats and those who claimed great works.
The goats did nothing, no works therefore rejected (mental assent only, or as we say over here pew pushers) those who did great works were rejected as well because he never knew them.
But the sheep.
The sheep know his voice and they follow his voice.
And when they go astray he goes after them. Because he knows them.
This dumb sheep here has gone astray many a time and find myself stuck.
And I bleat "Jesus I'm stuck please help me"
The issue for me with works as I said is reason.
We can do all the works we want but if it's not out of love for Jesus and the person we feed, give a cup of water to, pray for people who do not know we are praying for them, give a gift of money to help out but they don't know it came from us.
Listen to a brother and sister in pain, hurting, doubting and struggling.
If it's not out of love for them and wanting to be like Jesus it means nothing at all.
If the purpose is to look good and boast before God "I did this and that so you must let me in"
Then such a person will be rejected.
When Jesus judged such a person as he did with the sheep and the goats and the workers for, we know the outcome.
When we are judged what I'd crap will be burned up but we are still saved.
Because we love Jesus.
Will Bill Gates be saved because he gives millions to charity?
Will I be saved because I give 10 bucks to a homeless man?
Nope I will be saved because Jesus died for me, before God I'm justified by my faith in Jesus and responding to the free gift of salvation offered by God to all those who accept his son.
That is why I believe in God.
The one true God who through Paul tells us
Ephesians 2:4-10
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Teaching obedience as you say.
I would like to rephrase it.
It's discipleship.
You now have a heavenly Father, you have the Holy Spirit in you.
Let him guide you to become more like Jesus, after all that's why he is now in you.
He is our helper.
Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
What a privilege, what an honour that God would use us to be like Jesus.
Miserable sinners, who get it wrong, at times walks in disobedience but allows us to.
Refining fire.
Sorry for the long post.