Not By Works

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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Good luck brother....he believes in Farthing or something akin to self preservance....
It sounds to me like he believes in the gospel of works salvation conjoined with fear and bondage to IN-security, which is no good news at all! :cautious:
 
J

J70x7

Guest
Lesson 1:

Bible Definitions

1. What does the word "Bible" mean?
The word "Bible" means "book."

2. From what language is the word derived?
(Etymological definition)
From the Latin "Biblia," which in turn comes from the Greek.

3. Is the Greek word for what we call the "Bible" in the singular or in the plural?
In the plural, which means that it should be translated "the books".

4. Why did the Greeks use the plural form?
They used the plural form because the Bible is not one book but a collection of books.

5. Is the Latin word for what we call the Bible in the singular or in the plural?
It is in the singular and, therefore, should be translated "the book".

6. Why does the Latin use the singular form?
Because the Bible is the most important book there is, since it is the Word of God.

7. What does the Bible contain?
The Bible contains chiefly a history of God's Revelation to mankind.

8. What does the Bible give us in addition to the history of God's dealings with mankind?
In addition, the Bible gives us instructions in faith and morals.

9. Does the Bible give other instructions?
Certain books give detailed instructions for the carrying out of religious worship in the Old Law.

10. Did the Bible, as some seem to think, fall from heaven?
No; the Bible was written by man.

11. If the Bible was written by man, why do we say it is the written word of God?
Though written by man, we can truly say it is the written word of God, because it was written under the inspiration of God.
 
J

J70x7

Guest
Lesson 2:

Inspiration Of The Bible

1. Must we believe in the inspiration of the Bible?
Yes, the inspiration of the Bible is an article of Faith which cannot be denied without sin.

2. What is meant by inspiration of the Bible?
Inspiration of the Bible means, in the first place, that those who wrote the Bible were impelled to do so by God.

3. What else is meant by inspiration of the Bible?
Principally that those who wrote the Bible were protected from error while writing what God impelled them to write.

4. Is there a special name for that protection of the writer from error?
Yes, it is called "biblical inerrancy." It means that there are no errors in the Bible.

5. What proof have we that the Bible is inspired?
The Catholic Church, which is infallible, teaches us so.

6. Does not the Church itself rely on the Bible for proofs of its infallibility?
Besides those found in the Bible, the Church has many other proofs for its infallibility.

7. What general proof have we for the inspiration of the Bible?
Besides many others, we have Our Lord's constant references to the Old Testament as the word of God, while the early Christian Church testifies to the inspiration of the New Testament.

8. Are all the parts of the Bible inspired?
"For all the books which the Church receives as sacred and canonical are written wholly and entirely, with all their parts, at the dictation of the Holy Ghost ..." (Leo the XIII in Providentissimus Deus, E.B. 124, 127)

9. Does the inspiration apply to the originals only, or to the translations also?
Both: It applies absolutely to the originals, and to the translations insofar as they are faithful to the originals.
 
J

J70x7

Guest
Lesson 3:

Dates And Division Of The Bible

1. When was the Bible written?
The Bible was written during a period covering more than 1500 years.

2. When was the first book written?
The exact date is not known, but it must have been some fifteen hundred years before Christ, since its author was Moses.

3. When was the last book written?
The last book was written about the year 93 A.D.

4. What period of time does the Bible, as a book of history, cover?
As a history, the Bible covers a period of many thousands of years.

5. Name the event with which the Bible, as a book of history, begins.
The creation of the universe.

6. What events bring the Bible, as a book of history, to a close?
The life of Christ and early spread of Christianity.

7. How is the Bible divided?
The Bible is divided into the Old and New Testaments.

8. Is the division into Old and New Testaments suitable?
It is, since the Old Testament deals with the span of time before Christ's first coming with the expectation for the future Savior, while the New Testament treats of His life and work in this world, or the realization of that hope.
 
J

J70x7

Guest
Lesson 4:

The Old Testament

1. How many books does the Old Testament contain?
It contains from forty-five to forty-seven books, depending on how the books are divided.

2. Into how many classes may these books be divided?
Three.

3. Name these classes.
Didactic or Doctrinal, Historical, and Prophetic books.

4. Is there any reason for this classification?
Yes, the very matter contained in them suggests this classification.

5. What are the Didactic or Doctrinal books?
There are the books that contain the teachings of God to man.

6. How many Didactic books are there in the Old Testament?
Seven: Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Canticle of Canticles, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus.

7. Why are others called "Prophetical Books"?
Because they treat of the Messiah and His life, passion, and death in a prophetical manner.

8. Are all the Prophetical books of equal importance?
No; four of these books are called the Greater Prophets because they are greater in length and deal with more important matters, generally, than the other twelve which are called the Lesser Prophets.

9. Why are the remaining books classified as "Historical books"?
The remaining books are so classified because they narrate the history of the People of God and the history of our salvation.
 
P

Pisteuo

Guest
It sounds to me like he believes in the gospel of works salvation conjoined with fear and bondage to IN-security, which is no good news at all! :cautious:
Christianity = deny self , take up your cross , and follow Him .

Christ is formed in our hearts by Faith and faithing , pistis and pisteuo .
 
J

J70x7

Guest
Lesson 5:

The New Testament

1. How many books are there in the New Testament?
There are twenty-seven books in the New Testament.

2. When were these books written?
These books were written during a period extending from 35 A.D. to 93 A.D.

3. By whom were they written?
They were written mainly by the Apostles.

4. Why do we say "mainly"?
We say "mainly" because some books of the New Testament were written by men who were not the Apostles, i.e., St. Mark and St. Luke.

5. How may the books of the New Testament be classified?
Like those of the Old Testament, the books of the New may be grouped into three classes.

6. Name these three classes.
They are the same classes as with the Old Testament: Historical, Didactic, and Prophetical.

7. Name the Historical Books.
The Historical Books are the four Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles.

8. Name the Didactic Books.
The Didactic Books are all the Epistles.

9. Name the Prophetical Books.
There is only one Prophetical Book i? the New Testament, namely, the Apocalypse of St. John.

10. What do we learn from the New Testament?
From the New Testament we learn the principal events in the Life of Christ, many Christian beliefs and practices, as well as much history of the early Catholic Church.

11. Was the New Testament written primarily to convert people?
No, conversion was done by preaching. The New Testament was written to strengthen the Faith of the people already converted.

12. Can we prove it?
Yes: "It seems good to me also, ... to write to thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, that thou mayest know the verity of those words in which thou hast been instructed" (Lc. I, 3-4).
 
J

J70x7

Guest
Lesson 6:

Canon Of Sacred Scripture

1. How many books does the entire Bible contain?
Seventy-two or seventy-four, depending on the way they are calculated

2. How do we know with certainty that the Bible contains only these books?
We know with certainty that the Bible contains only these books because the number is fixed by the "Canon of the Scriptures."

3. What is meant by the word "Canon"?
"Canon" is a Greek word that means a standard or rule.

4. What is meant by the "Canon of Scriptures"?
Originally, the Canon of Scriptures meant the qualifications required of a book before admittance into the number of recognized inspired writings; now it means the very collection of these books recognized as inspired.

5. Who decides which books belong to the Bible and which do not?
The Catholic Church decides.

6. By what authority does the Catholic Church make this decision?
By that of Christ, Who has made her the infallible teacher of faith and morals by both the oral and the written word.

7. What special mark was required of a book before its admittance into the collection known as the Bible?
The special mark required was clear proof of its inspiration.

8. By whom was the first list of the books of the Bible drawn up?
Pope Damasus, at the Roman Council of 382 A.D.

9. By what name are those books, whose authenticity was never questioned, known?
They are known as the Proto-Canonical Books.

10. Why are they so called?
They are so called because from the beginning they were recognized as Scriptural; the Greek prefix "proto" has the signification "from the first" or "originally," hence the use of the term "proto-canonical" to describe those books.

11. By what name are the disputed books known?
They are known as the Deutero-Canonical Books.

12. Why are they so called?
They are so called because their recognition as Scriptural came "afterwards"; the Greek word "Deutero" used as a prefix has the signification of "second" or "later."

13. Name the Deutero-Canonical Books.
Tobias, Wisdom, Baruch, Ecclesiasticus, Machabees (I & II), Judith, Esther (Ch X. v. 4 to end), Daniel (Ch. III, vs. 52-93). The Protestants call them "Apocryphal" Books.

14. Why did the Hebrews not admit these books as part of the Bible?
As a whole, the Hebrews stopped admitting these books after the second Century A.D., because they were written in languages other than Hebrew, or were of uncertain authorship.

15. Did the Hebrews ever formally rejected these books?
On the contrary, even if they did not accept these books as part of the Bible, they were always held in the greatest reverence by the Hebrews.

16. Under what guidance does the Church declare which books are canonical and which are not?
Under the guidance of the Holy Ghost.

17. How do we know that she has this guidance?
We know that she has this guidance because Christ promised assistance to His Church until the end of times [Matthew 28:20].

18. Has the Church made use of human means in drawing up the Canon of Scriptures?
Yes; she investigated carefully whether the doctrine taught in the book was in harmony with Tradition and whether the book was of apostolic origin.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Christianity = deny self , take up your cross , and follow Him

Christ is formed in our hearts by Faith and faithing , pistis and pisteuo .
Perverting the gospel by teaching salvation by works is not denying self, taking up your cross or following Him. Too many people set out to accomplish these things on their terms and not His.
 
P

Pisteuo

Guest
Perverting the gospel by teaching salvation by works is not denying self, taking up your cross or following Him. Too many people set out to accomplish these things on their terms and not His.

Until you start a life of Faith an faithing , Your stuck outside of Christ at the drawing of the Father phase of the Salvation process . It begins with pisteuo , pisteuo in the Vines Greek dictionary , " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender " . The Strongs , " pisteuo means NOT just to believe ."

Until the lightbulb goes on and you realize " believing " is not the complete definition of pisteuo , as the Strongs says . And , you begin to fulfill pisteuo , as the Vines says , the Spirit of Christ , Christ , His word , and His promises in His Word are not yours yet .

Your choice . Just think a week ago you didn't have a clue . Now you do , and you will be held accountable for what you know today , not a week ago .

I understand and accept all the anger this had generated . I don't hold any of it against all of you . I fought for you all the best I could .
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,120
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The source of your authority is the Bible , then why do you reject it's original texts and definitions ?

My ultimate authority is Christ , the real living person , not His words . his word and texts like Vines and Strongs " valadate " the relationship Christ has molded in me , by Faith , by faithing , by the continual surrendering of my life to Him and living a life inspired by such surrender .

You've rejected God's warning , not mine .
So you cannot still move on, no I didn’t reject the original language(Greek) but I reject your translation and definition of pisteou as per Vines. I see so many loopholes in your post but I would have to restrain. Yet, here is a part of real God’s warning coming from the pen of Apostle Paul:
2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 Timothy 3:2 For men shall be…
2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Next…
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Christianity is not a destination , it's a journey that goes beyond here and today . We all start our journey in different places and in different circumstances . But God never changes , He doesn't change " His ways " because something couldnt be translated correctly .

My desire and purpose is just to point out this truth about God , His word , Faith and faithing , and the Salvation process . Shining light on this mistranslation could be just a single post , or for others , I could go into extreme detail as I've been learning about this for over 30 years . It all depends on how honest people can be with themselves .

That's my desire . God's desire might be more simple , to just get the truth out there to see what the called out ones will do with it .

IT IS NOT A PROCESS, IT IS A FREE GIFT.

1 Peter 1:4-5 (TLB)
4 And God has reserved for his children the priceless gift of eternal life; it is kept in heaven for you, pure and undefiled, beyond the reach of change and decay.
5 And God, in his mighty power, will make sure that you get there safely to receive it because you are trusting him. It will be yours in that coming last day for all to see.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
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... HE WILL PUNISH THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW GOD AND DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS. THEY WILL BE PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you. With this in mind, we constantly pray for you, that our God may count you worthy of his calling, and that by his power he may fulfill every good purpose of yours and every act prompted by your faith.2 Thessalonians 1:8-11g

Who are those who do not know God and do not obey the Gospel of our LORD Jesus?

...We know that WE HAVE COME TO KNOW HIM IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. 1 John 2:3-4

...They claim to know God, but BY THEIR ACTIONS THEY DENY HIM. They are detestable, DISOBEDIENT and unfit for doing anything good. Titus 1:16

...They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Jude 1:4

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrathcomes on those who are disobedient.7 Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians5:6
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Blah blah blah....James does not teach a wotks based salvation...no scripture teaches a works based salvation regardless of how you peddle it and or twist it
You are being deliberately obtuse. Works doesn't save but faith without works is dead. Therefore as James states his works is evidence of his faith in Jesus. Therefore works gives evidence of faith.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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" the Law came through Moses " - Jesus.

I think I will believe Him, not you .
The law is scattered through the Torah. The Torah was written by Moses. Therefore Jesus is correct!!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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You are being deliberately obtuse. Works doesn't save but faith without works is dead. Therefore as James states his works is evidence of his faith in Jesus. Therefore works gives evidence of faith.
Go back to your Catholic creed and do not address me with your religious dogma....!!
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Until you start a life of Faith an faithing , Your stuck outside of Christ at the drawing of the Father phase of the Salvation process . It begins with pisteuo , pisteuo in the Vines Greek dictionary , " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender " . The Strongs , " pisteuo means NOT just to believe ."
My life of faith started several years ago when I placed my faith (belief, trust, confidence, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation after leaving the Roman Catholic church, so I am not stuck outside of Christ at the drawing of the Father phase, but I find your false accusation to be ironic.

Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe and we will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving faith in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us in and enables us (John 6:44,65), we would NEVER come to believe all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ, we must choose Him. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise. According to Ephesians 1:13 and Romans 1:16, believing the gospel is enough to be saved and does not leave you stuck outside of Christ.

As I already previously explained to you (but unfortunately it continues to fall on deaf ears) John 1:12 is attached with "a personal surrender to Him" in Vine's definition. John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. There is the personal surrender to Him. When we choose to believe in/have faith in Christ unto salvation (Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8) we are entrusting our spiritual well being to Christ, along with placing confidence, trust and reliance in Him for salvation. That would be a personal surrender to Him, resulting in justification (Romans 5:1) and that is the ROOT of salvation.

The FRUIT of salvation would be living by or "out of" faith, as we see 2 Corinthians 5:7 attached with "a conduct inspired by such surrender" in Vine's definition, which reads - For we walk/live by faith and not by sight. This is our continued walk with the Lord by which by or "out of" faith believers bear fruit/produce works. So faith in Christ is the ROOT of salvation and "a conduct inspired by surrender" which FOLLOWS and produces good works would be the FRUIT. The Vine's definition is mixing Cause and Effect.

Your alleged "complete" definition of pisteuo amounts to salvation by grace through faith PLUS WORKS, contrary to salvation through faith, NOT WORKS (Romans 4:5-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..). The natural man CANNOT UNDERSTAND and is SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED (1 Corinthians 2:14). The gospel is hid to those who DON'T BELIEVE (2 Corinthians 4:3,4).

As I previously mentioned in post #76,740, I have a Strong's expanded exhaustive concordance of the Bible and Pisteuo #4100 says - to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), to entrust (especially one's spiritual well being to Christ). It goes on to say, Pisteuo means not just to believe, but also to be persuaded of; and hence, to place confidence in, to trust, and signifies, in this sense of the word, reliance upon. *Nothing there about a life inspired by such surrender which follows saving faith in Christ/fruit of faith/good works being mixed in with the definition of Pisteuo.* In the saving sense of Pisteuo, I agree with Strong's. Saving faith is belief, trust, reliance in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. (y)

BUT, don't lose sight of the fact that depending on the CONTEXT, Pisteuo can mean just to believe. *In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/confidence/reliance upon Christ for salvation. Their trust/confidence/reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. *Keep in mind the Greek for "believe" in James 2:19 is Pisteuo. ;) No personal surrender to Christ there or a life inspired by such surrender.

Until the lightbulb goes on and you realize "believing" is not the complete definition of pisteuo , as the Strongs says . And , you begin to fulfill pisteuo , as the Vines says , the Spirit of Christ , Christ , His word , and His promises in His Word are not yours yet .
Believing, trusting, confidence, reliance in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation is the complete definition of Pisteuo, as the Strong's says. No supplements needed. Your warped view of Pisteuo based on your skewed view of Vine's and Strong's has blinded you to the truth. :(

Your choice . Just think a week ago you didn't have a clue . Now you do , and you will be held accountable for what you know today , not a week ago .
Your choice. You can repent and entrust your spiritual well being to Christ by placing your trust, confidence, reliance in Him as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation or you can refuse to repent and continue to trust in works for salvation and remain in unbelief. I hope and pray that you make the right choice!

I understand and accept all the anger this had generated . I don't hold any of it against all of you . I fought for you all the best I could
You are fighting against the truth, not for the truth just as you are fighting against believers, not for them. You are not fooling me or any of my brothers and sisters in Christ on Christian Chat. :cautious: Let me know when you are ready to repent and believe the gospel.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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It's funny how different people think . In your world that's built on the mistranslation I've been warning you all about , I should apologize for potentially helping her and her household . In my world , she would be eternally grateful , and beg for more understanding , which I have in abundance in Christ .
Not true...First of all , Jesus alone is my Master , my Teacher , and the Holy Spirit is my guidance...
I am not of this world nor yours , my home is in heaven for Eternity , where I will see my LORD face to face...
You seem more focused on your words Pisteuo and faithing then you do on God's whole Word , these words have become your idols , and to be honest , you are no help to me , nor do I want your own understanding , in God alone I trust ...