Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

lukeabers

Active member
Dec 6, 2018
223
37
28
38
So as a person looking for a church, how would I know if the Church had true faith? There is no such thing as "No Works". Every religious person on the planet has Works. You have Works. What work's do you have that show "Your personal faith has power"?
Right, but works without faith is dead. Just as faith without works is dead. Both depend on the other.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Um no he was not

The son was always the son, The son had his fathers blood. No matter how far the son walked away, No matter how deep he went underground, or no matter how High he could climb, He would still be his fathers son.
So you preach if he didn't return to the father in repentance and humility, he would still receive the blessings from the father.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Right, but works without faith is dead. Just as faith without works is dead. Both depend on the other.
I agree.

But Doesn't our "works" define our faith? Don't we come to the Light to "know" if our works are wrought in God or not?

It is written "And hereby we do know that we know him". Should we find out just How we know, according to His Word, if our Faith is saving Faith? True faith in God?
 

lukeabers

Active member
Dec 6, 2018
223
37
28
38
I agree.

But Doesn't our "works" define our faith? Don't we come to the Light to "know" if our works are wrought in God or not?

It is written "And hereby we do know that we know him". Should we find out just How we know, according to His Word, if our Faith is saving Faith? True faith in God?
Your reward is based on your faith and works in concert with each other. Christ said, everything boils down to this: Love God more than yourself and love your neighbor as yourself. If you can understand that statement, you have the whole thing.
 

lukeabers

Active member
Dec 6, 2018
223
37
28
38
How is this story about Christ the Son returning to God after rejecting Him?
That is a deeper question than you are ready to hear an answer for. Christ is God. Until you know more, let that be the end of it.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
And God tells us nothing can take us away, separate us, from Him. We are His no matter what.
This is true. But Jesus also says there are "Many" who claim Him as their Savior, who calls Him Lord, who believe that are His, but they are not.

Shouldn't we believe this as well, and study to make sure we are not part of that "Many"? Or should we just take some preachers word for it.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Your reward is based on your faith and works in concert with each other. Christ said, everything boils down to this: Love God more than yourself and love your neighbor as yourself. If you can understand that statement, you have the whole thing.
Again I agree. How do I Love God? Shall I "do" as He instructs and trust that He knows more than I? Or should I follow a religion which transgresses His Commandments by their own religious traditions?
 

lukeabers

Active member
Dec 6, 2018
223
37
28
38
Again I agree. How do I Love God? Shall I "do" as He instructs and trust that He knows more than I? Or should I follow a religion which transgresses His Commandments by their own religious traditions?
You better damned follow God's commandments and not care, in the least, what a religious tradition has to say about anything. If it isn't Biblical, it ain't real, friend.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,714
13,519
113
I think you have been tricked on many levels because you have refused the "Whole Armor" of God. Had you "put it on" you would understand that God is Righteous, and man is wicked above all things. That God's Word's and Work's are Holy and perfect, and Man's words and works are evil. That God's Laws were created for us, for OUR OWN GOOD. And they were Created "That we should walk in them". And that man made religious doctrines and traditions are from the devil.
if your 'breastplate of righteousness' is you own works and words, seeing that you've just confessed your own works and words to be evil, you've got the wrong breastplate if it's a righteousness of your own works - even those works which are in obedience to Him.
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!
(Galatians 2:21)
if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.
(Galatians 3:21)
be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ -- the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.
(Philippians 3:9)

every

word
 

lukeabers

Active member
Dec 6, 2018
223
37
28
38
uh huh.

how many days now have you been refusing to read and examine Matthew 17:22-27 -- the very words of Jesus Christ -- ?

I just read it. Separation of church and state. Powerful stuff from the Master of the Universe.

Your point?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,277
6,654
113
So as a person looking for a church, how would I know if the Church had true faith? There is no such thing as "No Works". Every religious person on the planet has Works. You have Works. What work's do you have that show "Your personal faith has power"?
one thing is for sure- stay away from any church or pastor or teacher who refuses to discuss parts of Scripture.

do you know anyone who refuses to discuss parts of Scripture? anyone?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,714
13,519
113
I just read it. Separation of church and state. Powerful stuff from the Master of the Universe.

Your point?
what was the tax?
is it found in Exodus 30?
then it wouldn't be a secular tax, would it?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,714
13,519
113
one thing is for sure- stay away from any church or pastor or teacher who refuses to discuss parts of Scripture.

do you know anyone who refuses to discuss parts of Scripture? anyone?
hold onto your wallet, throw chairs and run lol

i still don't get why Pistis-dude said he refuses to discuss scripture with people who haven't proved their immersion in Christ to him.
hasn't he been talking to a bunch of you guys for quite some time, discussing scripture? while being at odds with most of you?
what if Philip had that attitude with the Ethiopian, who told him no, he didn't understand what he was reading?
does not seem legit.
 

lukeabers

Active member
Dec 6, 2018
223
37
28
38
what was the tax?
is it found in Exodus 30?
then it wouldn't be a secular tax, would it?
Bleh, my mistake. Skimmed it, thought it was the Caesar coin story. Apologies!!

Ok, so sure, Christ is playing diplomatic. What am I missing here (beside the massive miss I just made...)?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
That is a deeper question than you are ready to hear an answer for. Christ is God. Until you know more, let that be the end of it.
This is a Bible discussion forum. I would be interested in which "SON" you believe represented the Christ as you said. I humbly ask that you share what the spirit has shown you.

Luke 15:
11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:
12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
 

lukeabers

Active member
Dec 6, 2018
223
37
28
38
This is a Bible discussion forum. I would be interested in which "SON" you believe represented the Christ as you said. I humbly ask that you share what the spirit has shown you.

Luke 15:
11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:
12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
This is a Bible discussion forum. I would be interested in which "SON" you believe represented the Christ as you said. I humbly ask that you share what the spirit has shown you.

Luke 15:
11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:
12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
Clearly, this is not about Christ being a son, Christ is the father in this story and the sons are two types of Christians. Do not understand how you are on this rabbit trail...
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
one thing is for sure- stay away from any church or pastor or teacher who refuses to discuss parts of Scripture.

do you know anyone who refuses to discuss parts of Scripture? anyone?
Yes, I know a few preachers like this. They won't preach what they consider "controversial" Scripture. One would not allow any teaching out of Jude. Another would not allow anyone to talk about election or mention the word; "We are not to know about this!"