Not By Works

VCO · Dec 12, 2018

NO, you do not understand, Works FOLLOW LOVE.

AND LOVE COMES FROM WHAT WAS SOWN IN THE FERTILE SOIL OF OUR HEARTS:

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

1 John 5:2-3 (HCSB)
2 This is how we know that we love God’s children when we love God and obey His commands.
3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,

1 John 3:14-19 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
16 This is how we have come to know love: He laid down His life for us. We should also lay down our lives for our brothers.
17 If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋
—how can God’s love reside in him?
18 Little children, we must not love with word or speech, but with truth and action.
19 This is how we will know we belong to the truth and will convince our conscience in His presence,

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

You have made the typical misinterpretation.

ONLY THE ALREADY BORN AGAIN BELIEVER CAN LOVE LIKE THAT.

STOP TRYING TO GET PART OF THE CREDIT FOR YOUR SALVATION FOR YOURSELF, ALL OF IT BELONGS TO JESUS CHRIST.

EVEN GOD'S LOVE THAT PRODUCED THE SAME KIND OF LOVE IN YOUR HEART, CAME FROM GOD.

Argueless · Dec 12, 2018

gb9 said:

...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did... 1 John 2:3-6

...But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”...Revelation 21:8

...What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”...Romans 3:3-4

Argueless · Dec 12, 2018

gb9 said:

The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.

These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)

...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13

...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2

How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?

We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.

Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?

..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:10‭-‬14‭, ‬24

...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
2 Corinthians 11:13‭-‬15

...And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.
Ephesians 5:6‭-‬7

...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”...
Genesis 3:1‭-‬19

Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.

The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God.

Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why resist them?

So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?

ReturnToGod · Dec 12, 2018

VCO said:

You skipped over a scriptural step and/or do not believe what is before your eyes. There are plenty of people in the world that love (and without God). They give their lives for others, they give of their resources to help others, yet don't believe in Jesus Christ. While every passage you state is obviously true the foundation of salvation is FAITH which produces love IF we listen to the Holy Spirit. There are many "Christians" walking around grieving and quenching the Holy Spirit......

Finally what you are describing is Calvinism which is heresy. God has given us the ability to choose or reject Him even though the faith comes from Him. In addition, God has given us the ability to choose or reject the Holy Spirit. We are counseled and commanded throughout scripture to endure. To discard these passages makes God out to be disingenuous. Faith is the basis of salvation (and yes we do love because of faith). "If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him.

posthuman · Dec 12, 2018

gb9 said:

you know, I wonder - how many of these Bible-thumper, command and Law keepers have ever actually read the Bible all the way through, just one time.

not that I would get an honest answer from that bunch ( the Lord mentioned several times in the O.T. about only using HONEST weights and measures, guess they skipped those verses ?? )

i've noticed that they never quote Ruth

ReturnToGod · Dec 12, 2018

NoNameMcgee said:

Really? Here is one of a couple of passages that says different. Note the parts in italics. If we are faithful, God will never leave us but the idea that we can live as we please after we receive the Holy Spirit is not scriptural either.

" I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Also, it is perfectly possible, as shown over and over in the OT, that often men will not respond to chastening. Their destiny? Destruction. Read Amos 4 as an example.......

ReturnToGod · Dec 12, 2018

eternally-gratefull said:

Just to answer this directly, most believe (not saying you) that since works (bad or good) have no bearing on your salvation, LOGICALLY one can sin as much as one wants, be as worldly as one wants, or refuse to be led by the Holy Spirit and remain saved. I ask one simple question: Can a person who has accepted Jesus Christ sin as much as they want and remain saved? Most answer YES; this is true. But if you say no, then you reaffirm the nature of true faith; that it is not some abstract intellectual belief but a faith that results in love, obedience, and works. This is the logical fallacy that those who don't consider ALL of scripture come to. Can even copy an examples..... PS You may want to look up George Sodini's diary entries.

ReturnToGod · Dec 12, 2018

posthuman said:

Respectfully, i read it over and over and over. Once i get through i start again. What i don't read are the ramblings of men.

gb9 · Dec 12, 2018

Argueless said:

The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.

These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)

...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13

...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2

How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?

We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.

Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?

..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:10‭-‬14‭, ‬24

...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
2 Corinthians 11:13‭-‬15

...And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.
Ephesians 5:6‭-‬7

...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”...
Genesis 3:1‭-‬19

Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.

The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God.

Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why resist them?

So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?

I just quoted John. if you have an issue with what He said the commands Christians are to keep, take it up with Him.

posthuman · Dec 12, 2018

ReturnToGod said:

hey man all i said was i don't see Ruth quotes.

you read my drivel, tho - thanks!

VCO · Dec 12, 2018

ReturnToGod said:

You are the one that skipped over verses.

THE LOVE COMES FROM GOD and not faith.

Read ROMANS 5:5 YET AGAIN, it is the SEED THAT SPAWNS OUR LOVE.

I am not going to address that CALVINISM COMMENT, as far as I am concerned we BURIED that Calvinism VS Armenian Argument in the 1980's. I AM NEITHER.

VCO · Dec 12, 2018

Something that rings LOUD AND CLEAR in my heart, as we get closer and closer to the Calling Out of the Bride of Christ, to Go to the Wedding in Heaven, is the INCREASE False Doctrines:

Matthew 24:22-27 (HCSB)
22 Unless those days were limited, no one would survive. But those days will be limited because of the elect.
23 “If anyone tells you then, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Over here!’ do not believe it!
24 False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
25 Take note: I have told you in advance.
26 So if they tell you, ‘Look, He’s in the wilderness!’ don’t go out; ‘Look, He’s in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.
27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Matthew 7:13-23 (HCSB)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
15 “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
16 You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
17 In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
18 A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

Acts 20:28-31 (HCSB)
28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock that the Holy Spirit has appointed you to as overseers, to shepherd the church of God, which He purchased with His own blood.
29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 And men will rise up from your own number with deviant doctrines to lure the disciples into following them.
31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for three years I did not stop warning each one of you with tears.

2 Timothy 4:2-4 (HCSB)
2 Proclaim the message; persist in it whether convenient or not; rebuke, correct, and encourage with great patience and teaching.
3 For the time will come when they will not tolerate sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, will multiply teachers for themselves because they have an itch to hear something new.
4 They will turn away from hearing the truth and will turn aside to myths.

2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 (NCV)
6 And now you know what is stopping that Man of Evil so he will appear at the right time.
7 The secret power of evil is already working in the world, but there is one who is stopping that power. And he will continue to stop it until he is taken out of the way.
8 Then that Man of Evil will appear, and the Lord Jesus will kill him with the breath that comes from his mouth and will destroy him with the glory of his coming.

2 Peter 3:3-4 (HCSB)
3 First, be aware of this: Scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, living according to their own desires,
4 saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? Ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation.”

2 Timothy 3:1-7 (HCSB)
1 But know this: Difficult times will come in the last days.
2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,
3 unloving, irreconcilable, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, without love for what is good,
4 traitors, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
5 holding to the form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid these people!
6 For among them are those who worm their way into households and capture idle women burdened down with sins, led along by a variety of passions,
7 always learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

I do not like it one bit, but AT LEAST HE WARNED US.

dcontroversal · Dec 12, 2018

VCO said:

Something that rings LOUD AND CLEAR in my heart, as we get closer and closer to the Calling Out of the Bride of Christ, to Go to the Wedding in Heaven, is the INCREASE False Doctrines:

Matthew 24:22-27 (HCSB)
22 Unless those days were limited, no one would survive. But those days will be limited because of the elect.
23 “If anyone tells you then, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Over here!’ do not believe it!
24 False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
25 Take note: I have told you in advance.
26 So if they tell you, ‘Look, He’s in the wilderness!’ don’t go out; ‘Look, He’s in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.
27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Matthew 7:13-23 (HCSB)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
15 “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
16 You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
17 In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
18 A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

Acts 20:28-31 (HCSB)
28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock that the Holy Spirit has appointed you to as overseers, to shepherd the church of God, which He purchased with His own blood.
29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 And men will rise up from your own number with deviant doctrines to lure the disciples into following them.
31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for three years I did not stop warning each one of you with tears.

2 Timothy 4:2-4 (HCSB)
2 Proclaim the message; persist in it whether convenient or not; rebuke, correct, and encourage with great patience and teaching.
3 For the time will come when they will not tolerate sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, will multiply teachers for themselves because they have an itch to hear something new.
4 They will turn away from hearing the truth and will turn aside to myths.

2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 (NCV)
6 And now you know what is stopping that Man of Evil so he will appear at the right time.
7 The secret power of evil is already working in the world, but there is one who is stopping that power. And he will continue to stop it until he is taken out of the way.
8 Then that Man of Evil will appear, and the Lord Jesus will kill him with the breath that comes from his mouth and will destroy him with the glory of his coming.

2 Peter 3:3-4 (HCSB)
3 First, be aware of this: Scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, living according to their own desires,
4 saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? Ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation.”

2 Timothy 3:1-7 (HCSB)
1 But know this: Difficult times will come in the last days.
2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,
3 unloving, irreconcilable, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, without love for what is good,
4 traitors, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
5 holding to the form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid these people!
6 For among them are those who worm their way into households and capture idle women burdened down with sins, led along by a variety of passions,
7 always learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

I do not like it one bit, but AT LEAST HE WARNED US.

The false doctrines have been peddled since the day the serpent said...Has God really said........and Jesus, the chruch letters by Paul, words of John etc. prove this truth.....they may be repackaged and regurgitated under a different banner, yet are the same nonetheless......IMO

ReturnToGod · Dec 12, 2018

VCO said:

You are the one that skipped over verses.

THE LOVE COMES FROM GOD and not faith.

Read ROMANS 5:5 YET AGAIN, it is the SEED THAT SPAWNS OUR LOVE.

I am not going to address that CALVINISM COMMENT, as far as I am concerned we BURIED that Calvinism VS Armenian Argument in the 1980's. I AM NEITHER.

and where does the seed come from?

ReturnToGod · Dec 12, 2018

posthuman said:

amen.

dcontroversal · Dec 13, 2018

Adam tried to cover his own sin and shame.....and failed

Cain offered his works and failed and makes Jude as a false teacher

The Pharisees believed in their works and traditions and adherance to the law/commandments and Jesus identifies them as coffins filled with the bones of dead men

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe

Faith is what saves a man....no works attached to be saved or remain saved eternally.....embellished faith = no salvation!!

ReturnToGod · Dec 13, 2018

dcontroversal said:

What you are describing is false belief. Faith does save a man. Don't think you understand what faith is friend. Praying for you....

VCO · Dec 13, 2018

ReturnToGod said:

Do you even believe the BIBLE ? ? ?

OR JUST YOUR FALSE DOCTRINE ? ? ?

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

HIS LOVE IS THE SEED FOR THE FERTILE SOIL IN OUR HEARTS TO PRODUCE THE SAME KIND OF LOVE THAT HE PUT IN OUR HEARTS.

NEVER HAS OBEDIENCE BEEN CONNECTED TO ANY THING BUT LOVE, and YOU ARE SAVED FIRST, THEN OUT OF HIS LOVE IN OUR HEARTS, it springs for the SAME KIND OF LOVE, in the form of OBEDIENCE.

Romans 11:6 (HCSB)
6 Now if by grace, then it is not by works; otherwise grace ceases to be grace.

Titus 3:5 (NIV)
5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

dcontroversal · Dec 13, 2018

ReturnToGod said:

No need to pray for me or call me friend....I understand faith just fine.....I also understand that is what saves a man..........thanks anyway....pray for yourself!

dcontroversal · Dec 13, 2018

VCO said:

Do you even believe the BIBLE ? ? ?

OR JUST YOUR FALSE DOCTRINE ? ? ?

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

HIS LOVE IS THE SEED FOR THE FERTILE SOIL IN OUR HEARTS TO PRODUCE THE SAME KIND OF LOVE THAT HE PUT IN OUR HEARTS.

NEVER HAS OBEDIENCE BEEN CONNECTED TO ANY THING BUT LOVE, and YOU ARE SAVED FIRST, THEN OUT OF HIS LOVE IN OUR HEARTS, it springs for the SAME KIND OF LOVE, in the form of OBEDIENCE.

Romans 11:6 (HCSB)
6 Now if by grace, then it is not by works; otherwise grace ceases to be grace.

Titus 3:5 (NIV)
5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

His name is a misnomer..........and I would say...

a. Does not know the bible
b. Does know, believe and peddle Cainology

Not By Works

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