Not By Works

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,886
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I posted God's Words regarding this issue and you reject them. I know you are listening to a "voice", so if you aren't listening to the Creator of Salvation regarding His own creation, who are you listening too?
*cough*

see above..

i could go on for a couple hours with this...
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
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False.....your equation has the ox before the cart!

No FAITH...No Salvation...No results of SALVATION!!
Not if you read it right...

If we have no works....it means we have no faith.
If we have no faith......It means we have no salvation.

Works demonstrate that we have faith.
I'm not putting the horse before the cart.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
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How so? Paul simply explained in detail that the gospel is hid to those who don’t believe and why. I’m not a 5 point Calvinist, so no need for that label.
I wasn't labeling you.
Just made a statement.
How is that God doesn't shine His light on all and He hides the bible and some say that's why Jesus used parables --- because He didn't want just anyone understanding, but only the chosen.

Calvinism is pretty weird theology IMHO.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,264
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I like how you pointed out that God has elected and predestined to save anyone who will trust in Christ for salvation. Romans 8:29 talks about God’s foreknowledge, yet a 5 point Calvinist views election and Predestination as God fatalisticly determining who will be saved and we have no choice in the matter.

That is why I only believe in 3 Points of Calvinism, so the Hard Core Calvinists do not what to claim me, and the Armenians sure don't want to claim me. SO no they can only Call me a CHRISTIAN who absolutely believes HE is BORN AGAIN. ;) I LIKE IT THAT WAY.


Romans 8:29-30 (HCSB)
29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.

Ephesians 1:5-9 (CSBBible)
5 He predestined us to be adopted as sons through Jesus Christ for himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 to the praise of his glorious grace that he lavished on us in the Beloved One.
7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace
8 that he richly poured out on us with all wisdom and understanding.
9 He made known to us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure that he purposed in Christ
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
7,684
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Well thats good to know. :) I just read the first post not the 3948 others in this thread.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,264
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I FORGOT ONE VERSE ABOVE:

Ephesians 1:11-12 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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Artists view of Jesus of Nazareth learning the craft of carpentry with his father Joseph.
I like how you pointed out that God has elected and predestined to save anyone who will trust in Christ for salvation. Romans 8:29 talks about God’s foreknowledge, yet a 5 point Calvinist views election and Predestination as God fatalisticly determining who will be saved and we have no choice in the matter.
Hi Dan, and amen brother, as you pointed out a while back in your post; we see a pitiful poor amount about our Savior Jesus Christ, the man from Nazareth "born of the Holy Spirit", who takes away the sin's of the world. We do see a lot of Pharisee like criticism from the self-righteous group that is focused on "the letter of the law", and absolutely "void of the spirit."

God bless and keep preaching the word in or out of season, :)

John12:31-33
31)
Now judgment is upon this world; now the prince of this world will be cast out. 32) And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, 'will draw all men to Myself.” 33) He said this to indicate the kind of death He was going to die.

John3:14-16
14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone 'who believes in Him may have eternal life.'
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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*cough*

Galatians 5:1-4 + the fact Jesus was physically circumcised + the commandment both to Abraham and in the Law to physically circumcise + the presedence circumcision takes in the Law over physical sabbath inactivity....
Hi posthuman, I'm in 100 percent in agreement with what the bible say's here, as a matter of fact if you do not preach that, "Christ has set us free", (to do good), you are preaching a false gospel. And yes we should all "stand firm", in our freedom in Christ. (to do good). If Christ has not set you free Paul say's you are obligated to "obey the whole law."

Freedom in Christ
1)
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery. 2) Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3) Again I testify to 'every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole Law.'
4)
You who are trying to be justified by the Law have been severed from Christ;'you have fallen away from grace.'
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,707
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Hi posthuman, I'm in 100 percent in agreement with what the bible say's here, as a matter of fact if you do not preach that, "Christ has set us free", (to do good), you are preaching a false gospel. And yes we should all "stand firm", in our freedom in Christ. (to do good). If Christ has not set you free Paul say's you are obligated to "obey the whole law."

Freedom in Christ
1)
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery. 2) Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3) Again I testify to 'every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole Law.'
4)
You who are trying to be justified by the Law have been severed from Christ;'you have fallen away from grace.'
yes, we are to fulfill the righteous intent of the Law.

those who are obsessed with the letter cannot understand this.

so, in a way, we are speaking 2 different languages.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,264
3,723
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When did God go on vacation and put you in charge?
Judge not....lest you be judged....

That VERSE that you quoted Judge Not, means TO PASS SENTENCE UPON. I am surprised you did not know that. How many people have you FALSELY accused of Judging, because you had the WRONG DEFINITION for that word? I do not Pass Sentence Upon, which means to condemn them to Hades/Hell.

That JUDGE NOT, has absolutely NOTHING to do with DISCERNMENT! We are commanded to Discern whether or not they are a REAL BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS:

Matthew 7:16-23 (HCSB)
16 You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
17 In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
18 A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, I never knew you!
[🖜 that is Born Again] Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

So we absolutely can DISCERN whether someone else is Born Again, AFTER we have been a FRUIT INSPECTOR long enough to determine what kind of FRUIT grows out of their heart.


Malachi 3:18 (NKJV)
18 Then you shall again discern Between the righteous and the wicked, Between one who serves God And one who does not serve Him.

Ephesians 5:7-11 (ESV)
7 Therefore do not become partners with them;
8 for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light
9 (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true),
10 and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord.
11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

Philippians 1:9-11 (NIV)
9 And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight,
10 so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ,
11 filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ--to the glory and praise of God.

Hebrews 5:14 (ESV)
14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.

Proverbs 3:21 (NIV)
21 My son, preserve sound judgment and discernment, do not let them out of your sight;

Philippians 1:9-11 (ASV)
9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and all discernment;
10 so that ye may approve the things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and void of offence unto the day of Christ;
11 being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are through Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

1 Timothy 1:18-20 (GWT)
18 Timothy, my child, I'm giving you this order about the prophecies that are still coming to you: Use these prophecies in faith and with a clear conscience to fight this noble war.
19 Some have refused to let their faith guide their conscience and their faith has been destroyed like a wrecked ship.
20 Among these people are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan in order to teach them not to dishonor God.

1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Ephesians 5:11 (NIV)
11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.


So what did you do with all those verses pertaining to Discernment?
Do you IGNORE them, or just pick and choose which ones you want to call Discernment and which ones you FALSELY call Judging?

PLEASE READ: the entire Context in the NIV Bible, 1 Cor. 2:6-16, and do let us know if you think it is FOOLISHNESS.
We take it LITERALLY.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,886
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Tell me more sir. By list I would mean: Which books constitute the bible.

Or atleast the NT. The OT was already "set" imo
i really don't know church history. but this fellow who tells us it is very important to know when the first list of the books of the Bible was drawn up, and by whom, told me that the Torah didn't count, the Septuagint doesn't count, etc. so he's focused in on canonization of the NT I think. but if he said why knowing pope so and so was the first to preside over an assembly called to organise a canon helps us decide whether salvation is by works or by faith ((I remember him making that comment)) then I missed it.

a couple of weeks ago he was spamming the question 'do you know when and by whom the first list of the books of the Bible was made?' - - he feels its really important fact.

my *guess* is we're supposed to say daang, a pope had something to do with this? guess that means it's corrupt


but i dunno if he explained it I didn't see his post.
 

YDo

Active member
Dec 9, 2018
151
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If you only knew how utterly foolish you sound.

Matt. 23:
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

So according to you this Jesus just wasn't powerful enough to make these guys righteous. So you create your own that can.

Matt. 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

So according to you this Jesus just doesn't love you enough to carry your cross for you, and follow Himself for you, so you create your own that does.

Hebrews 12:
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

So according to you, this Jesus doesn't love you enough to carry you over the finish line, he expects you to run. Can't have that can you Decon. So you create a Jesus that takes the race away from you, you aren't even in a race. Your jesus runs the race for you.

I get so tired of listening to white washed walls demonize the Christ of the Bible and His teaching just so they can justify their own religious franchise.

Does a good father teach his son to pick up his own toys when he is through with them? Why??? Because the father isn't powerful enough to pick them up himself? So then, does the child create a father who will pick up his toys for him??? Yet, that is what you preach.

Just keep preaching Decon. You do a better job than me of exposing where you religion comes from.
OK, lots of pages between start to now but I'm trying to figure out the position you hold here as you address the Decon person.
Do you believe works save us? Or not?
Thanks for helping me out.