Not By Works

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,699
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MORE on the MAGI:

Here is an Ancient Historian that mentions the MAGI in his writting:

Quote:
Herodotus mentions Median Magi as a Median tribe providing priests for both the Medes and the Persians. They had a "priestly caste" which passed their functions from father to son. They played a significant role in the court of the Median king Astyages who had in his court certain Medians as "advisers, dream interpreters, and soothsayers".

Classical historians "unanimously" regarded the Magi as priests of the Zoroastrian faith.

http://www.crystalinks.com/media.html End Quote.


Quote:
  • The sixth tribe were the Magi...They were a hereditary caste of priests of the Zurvanism religion that evolved out of Zoroastrianism. The name Magi implies a link with the Sumerians, who called their language Emegir, over time becoming simplified to Magi. Hungarian tradition also traces pre-European Magyar (Hungarian) ancestry back to the Magi. In time, the Sumerian-influenced religion of the Magi was suppressed in favour of a more purely Iranian form of Zoroastrianism, itself evolved from its somewhat dualist beginnings into the monotheistic faith that it is today (also known as Parsi-ism).
http://www.michaeltsarion.com/history-of-the-medes.html End Quote.


Quote:

Most historians feel that a majority of the Iranians of today are descended from ... However, the first mention of Medes does not go beyond 835BC when they appear in the .... its name were exclusively chosen from a Median tribe of the same name. The actual Persian name of the Magi seems to have been Magupat which ...

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Iranian_History/The_Medes_and_the_Early_Achaemenids End Quote.



Quote:
Magi
The ancient Magi were a hereditary priesthood of the Medes credited with profound and extraordinary religious knowledge. After some Magi, who had been attached to the Median court, proved to be expert in the interpretation of dreams, Darius the Great established them over the state religion of Persia.

https://www.geni.com/projects/Zoroastrianism-Magi/13185 End Quote.



I ASK AGAIN: I am not having any problem finding references in Historical Documents about the Tribe of MAGI from the time of the Medean Kingdom onward to the time of Christ.

How come your theologians do not know this History?

Perhaps you need a whole new set of Theologians.
in Acts 16:1-5 for example, the setting is Lystra, which is in modern day Turkey, but the text talks about Jews who live there. even though they aren't from Judea, they're called Jews -- their description doesn't come from their physical location but from another quality of them, in this case their religion and ethnicity. similarly anyone who practiced the same sort of things and was engaged in the same sort of study as the magicians of the Median court could have been called 'magi' simply for the reason of their vocation, if the word 'magi' had taken on the meaning of having to do with anyone practicing the same things as the people originally called magi were associated with.

we do the same thing with all kinds of words -- people who have absolutely nothing to do with early-20th century German socialist politics are called 'nazis.' 'rastafarians' refers colloquially to a wide group of people even though the word itself literally specifically refers to an Ethiopian king ((ras)) to be feared/respected ((tafari)). Americans all over the world are called 'yanks' though the term in its original American use refers only to New Englanders, and before that, was a Dutch nickname for anyone named 'Jan' ((or John)).

the fact that the astrologers of the Medes were at one time called Magi doesn't preclude the possibility that the word came in common usage to refer to anyone who practiced the same arts. it's just not conclusive.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,286
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Are you not aware that the history of that time must be studied together with the bible in order to understand what the bible is saying?

Do you think someone 2,000 years from now would understand what "hang tight" means if they did NOT also study our history??

“Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” Sir Winston Churchill
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
“Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” Sir Winston Churchill
???
So WHO has leaned from history?
You got some names there?

Anyway, I don't really know what you're talking about.
If humans learned from history, we'd be much more enlightened by now.
But, alas, there's nothing new under the sun.
Man's nature remains the same...
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,286
4,238
113
???
So WHO has leaned from history?
You got some names there?

Anyway, I don't really know what you're talking about.
If humans learned from history, we'd be much more enlightened by now.
But, alas, there's nothing new under the sun.
Man's nature remains the same...

Strange, conservative evangelicals do not have a problem understanding who the Magi were and were in the East they come from.

 
Dec 12, 2013
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Its sad that people think their personal righteousness is seen as (good) to god..
Especially in light of ALL OUR RIGHTEOUSNESSES are as filthy rags.........and while Jesus was on the planet with saved, immersed disciples he said there are NONE GOOD.......but hey.....when one peddles a false gospel that ties self effort or maintaining it by what we do in with Christ and his work....they must elevate what we do to the (good enough realm)............
 
Dec 12, 2013
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If they were knowledgeable catholics you didn't tell them anything they don't already know.
But so many are not....
The only part of your witness they should not have agreed with is your stance on OSAS,,,,but that must be forgiven anyone who believes it...it's your belief in Jesus and His saving grace that is all-important and which you hold dear.
Hahhahahhahahahhaha I will give you one thing Fran...you make me laugh.................
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
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“A MAN REAPS WHAT HE BELIEVES WITHOUT THE NEED TO SOW.”

The one above sounds contrary to the verse below but would fit very well to the OSAS doctrines which says that “Faith ALONE saves and ONCE SAVED you are ALWAYS SAVED.”

It is very true, logical, practical and wise to say that “A MAN REAPS WHAT HE SOWS”

Can a farmer reap a harvest without sowing seeds in His field? Can he just sit down and wait for months believing that he will reap a good harvest without anything sown or done?

...Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A MAN REAPS WHAT HE SOWS. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature WILL REAP DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE.Galatians 6:7-8

... “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now he harvests the crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. OTHERS HAVE DONE THE HARD WORK, and YOU HAVE REAPED THE BENEFITS OF THEIR LABOR” John 4:34-38
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I see Seoche is still peddling his wares like a street organ player in Calcutta with a dancing monkey for coin......it must be so tragic to believe in a false god of no hope and or security.....start calling their dogma....Lottery Ticket Jesus......buy in and have the same type of hope that you win in the end....

What a slap in the face to the Son of God, his word, his promises, his power, his work......

No wonder he says to the many religionists, Cainologists and Pharisees....depart from me......their trust is not in Christ, but their many wonderful works in his name.....the same dogma that many on here peddle!
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
I see Seoche is still peddling his wares like a street organ player in Calcutta with a dancing monkey for coin......it must be so tragic to believe in a false god of no hope and or security.....start calling their dogma....Lottery Ticket Jesus......buy in and have the same type of hope that you win in the end....

What a slap in the face to the Son of God, his word, his promises, his power, his work......

No wonder he says to the many religionists, Cainologists and Pharisees....depart from me......their trust is not in Christ, but their many wonderful works in his name.....the same dogma that many on here peddle!
Nice try rebel soldier.

Ever heard of Lucifers pride and rebellion and the Son of perdition?

Doesn't sound like he's obedient to authorities. Now if you're a good soldier, YOU will obey your commanding officer.

Take as an example the people of God who won so many battles and were saved from destruction whenever they OBEY God as their commander. Did you trust and OBEY your commanding officer in the Marines?

Why won't you obey the Lord Jesus when He says that "if you want to ENTER LIFE, obey the commandments. (Matthew 19:17)

...“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? Luke 6:46

... But I will come to you very soon, if the Lord is willing, and then I will find out not only how these arrogant people are talking, but what power they have. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power. 1 Corinthians 4:19-20

...These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. A Call to Persevere But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” THESE ARE THE MEN WHO DIVIDE YOU, who follow mere natural instincts and DO NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT. Jude 1:16-19

... As the body WITHOUT THE SPIRIT is dead, so faith WITHOUT WORKS is DEAD. James 2:26

DEAD AND WITHOUT POWER.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Nice try rebel soldier.

Ever heard of Lucifers pride and rebellion and the Son of perdition?

Doesn't sound like he's obedient to authorities. Now if you're a good soldier, YOU will obey your commanding officer.

Take as an example the people of God who won so many battles and were saved from destruction whenever they OBEY God as their commander. Did you trust and OBEY your commanding officer in the Marines?

Why won't you obey the Lord Jesus when He says that "if you want to ENTER LIFE, obey the commandments. (Matthew 19:17)

...“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? Luke 6:46

... But I will come to you very soon, if the Lord is willing, and then I will find out not only how these arrogant people are talking, but what power they have. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power. 1 Corinthians 4:19-20

...These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. A Call to Persevere But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” THESE ARE THE MEN WHO DIVIDE YOU, who follow mere natural instincts and DO NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT. Jude 1:16-19

... As the body WITHOUT THE SPIRIT is dead, so faith WITHOUT WORKS is DEAD. James 2:26

DEAD AND WITHOUT POWER.
Blah, blah, blah.....none of the above equates to a works gained or maintained salvation.....keep conflating justified with sanctified and you will not have a good day on THAT DAY......!!!!
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
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Blah, blah, blah.....none of the above equates to a works gained or maintained salvation.....keep conflating justified with sanctified and you will not have a good day on THAT DAY......!!!!
Will your disobedience save you?

Do you not DENY GOD for being disobedient?

Will God not DENY you for DENYING Him thru your disobedience?

What does the bible say contrary to your own teachings?

... “Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. But whoever DISOWNS(DENY) me before men, I will DISOWN(DENY) him before my Father in heaven. Matthew 10:32-33

... They claim to know God, but BY THEIR ACTIONS THEY DENY HIM. They are detestable, DISOBEDIENT and unfit for doing anything good. Titus 1:16

...For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and DENY JESUS CHRIST our only Sovereign and Lord. Jude 1:4

...But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, EVEN DENYING THE SOVEREIGN LORD who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. MANY WILL FOLLOW THEIR SHAMEFUL WAYS and will bring the WAY OF TRUTH into disrepute. 2 Peter 2:1-2

.. having a form of godliness but DENYING IT'S POWER. Have nothing to do with them. 2 Timothy 3:5

Did He warn you about disobedience?

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6-7

... See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? Hebrews 12:25
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Seoche assumes much while knowing very little..........again...you know why your posts have no scriptural value? Because you conflate justification with sanctification and in so doing peddle a false gospel of a different kind that Paul condemns in Galatians.....wake up pal to the truth before you have a very very bad day on that day.....

Many will say...LORD, LORD HAVE WE NOT DONE <--your gospel reeks of this.....

Saved by grace through faith eternally without HUMAN EFFORT, MERIT AND OR LAW/COMMANDMENT KEEPING is what the bible teaches....Your vanilla Catholic cinnamon twist cake taking non-gospel will save no one.....!!
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
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Seoche assumes much while knowing very little..........again...you know why your posts have no scriptural value? Because you conflate justification with sanctification and in so doing peddle a false gospel of a different kind that Paul condemns in Galatians.....wake up pal to the truth before you have a very very bad day on that day.....

Many will say...LORD, LORD HAVE WE NOT DONE <--your gospel reeks of this.....

Saved by grace through faith eternally without HUMAN EFFORT, MERIT AND OR LAW/COMMANDMENT KEEPING is what the bible teaches....Your vanilla Catholic cinnamon twist cake taking non-gospel will save no one.....!!
... And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to WAKE UP FROM YOUR SLUMBER, because OUR SALVATION IS NEARER NOW THAN WHEN WE FIRST BELIEVED. The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature. Romans 13:11-14

...Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and STRAINING TOWARD WHAT IS AHEAD, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. ONLY LET US LIVE UP TO WHAT WE HAVE ALREADY ATTAINED. Philippians 3:12-16
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
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... And this is love: that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. MANY DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. ANYONE WHO RUNS AHEAD and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work. 2 John 1:6-11