Not By Works

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stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
9,698
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Im referring to this:

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

And the context surrounding this.

There are branches, and all of us jew or gentile are part of the same tree.
Same thing. Different metaphors. Jesus is the tree of life. If you would like an interesting tidbit, look up leaves in Revelations concerning the tree of life, in Greek.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
6,488
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What I love about your posts Bill, is they are always reminding us of who we are in Gods great love. You reveal His true nature!
Amen Stone's.
Yes love is his true nature.

1 John 4:7-11

Knowing God Through Love
(cf. John 3:16)
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

Knowing that we are truly loved by God is essential to our walk with him.
Not only with him but with those around us and those he has given us to walk with.

The following verses

1 John 4:16-18
16 We know how much God loves us, and we have put our trust in his love.
God is love, and all who live in love live in God, and God lives in them. 17 And as we live in God, our love grows more perfect. So we will not be afraid on the day of judgment, but we can face him with confidence because we live like Jesus here in this world.
18 Such love has no fear, because perfect love expels all fear. If we are afraid, it is for fear of punishment, and this shows that we have not fully experienced his perfect love.

If we do not know how much he loves then

We do not put our full trust in him.
Our love cannot grow towards him and others (we only need to look at the restoration of Peter concerning love, how Peter would not confess Agape but only Phileo but was still used by Jesus and grew into Agape)
We will fear judgement day.
We will live in fear in our walk.

This leads to

Works in order to be saved, loved and accepted.
This creates a religious attitude.
In doing so when we disciple what is that discipleship?

This word fear conveys 'Terror'

A good few years ago I stumbled across the following (well not stumbled but led to in my quiet time)

John 17:23
23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

It was like God took a bullet, put it in a gun and shot it into my heart.

I have been surprised and dismayed, sad and heartbroken at the amount of believers I have asked "Do you know that God loves you as much as he loves Jesus?

And they say "No he doesn't"

I have even had people say even after showing them the verse "No that's not true" or "Only if I'm perfect, do not sin, have no problems"

Truly heartbreaking.

I genuinely feel that God does not want our works, he wants our love, he wants relationship.

If we can enter into that then fear is dispelled and as Jesus says "If you love me you will"

And yes we will because it's out of love and not fear or terror or to be saved.

If God expects us to be saved by our works then in a sense it's cruel and there would have been no need for Jesus to die.

I will bang on and on and on about his love for us.
This love that is constant and covers us.

People need to wake up and the smell the coffee.

God loves us as much as he loves Jesus.
This is not a lie because God is not a liar.

Anyone who does not believe it please know that it is true.
It must be because God is truth as well.

Sorry for the long post.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
What does that mean.....all my friends are believers.....!
D, see post no. 80,958.
This refers to the comment I made about you knowing about the tares.

About a week ago a conversation came up about how tares choke the wheat and what the word choke mean. YOU said that you had many acres of land and knew about weeds.

This is all I was referring to. Your knowledge about weeds.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
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Thats all I ever hear about.

Can anyone show any scripture for this? That when God is finished with the Church He "goes back to dealing with Israel"?

Romans 11:25-26 doesnt say anything of the sort btw. Not a word about God being finished with the Church adn going back to Israel, because there are Israelites/jews in the CHURCH, today, yesterday, since day 1. So isnt God dealing with them even today?

I dont know which doctrine hangs on this, but im betting its either the pre-trib rapture or dual-covenant theology, or SOMETHING has to hinge on it. Otherwise it wouldn't be so widely taught on Christian TV
Paul doesn't speak to any of the raptures....
However, if you want to learn about the break in time....
study Romans 9 to 11. It's all about Israel and how they didn't accept Jesus and how eventually the Jews will accept Him.

It's an interesting study for other reasons too.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
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Amen Stone's.
Yes love is his true nature.

1 John 4:7-11

Knowing God Through Love
(cf. John 3:16)
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

Knowing that we are truly loved by God is essential to our walk with him.
Not only with him but with those around us and those he has given us to walk with.

The following verses

1 John 4:16-18
16 We know how much God loves us, and we have put our trust in his love.
God is love, and all who live in love live in God, and God lives in them. 17 And as we live in God, our love grows more perfect. So we will not be afraid on the day of judgment, but we can face him with confidence because we live like Jesus here in this world.
18 Such love has no fear, because perfect love expels all fear. If we are afraid, it is for fear of punishment, and this shows that we have not fully experienced his perfect love.

If we do not know how much he loves then

We do not put our full trust in him.
Our love cannot grow towards him and others (we only need to look at the restoration of Peter concerning love, how Peter would not confess Agape but only Phileo but was still used by Jesus and grew into Agape)
We will fear judgement day.
We will live in fear in our walk.

This leads to

Works in order to be saved, loved and accepted.
This creates a religious attitude.
In doing so when we disciple what is that discipleship?

This word fear conveys 'Terror'

A good few years ago I stumbled across the following (well not stumbled but led to in my quiet time)

John 17:23
23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

It was like God took a bullet, put it in a gun and shot it into my heart.

I have been surprised and dismayed, sad and heartbroken at the amount of believers I have asked "Do you know that God loves you as much as he loves Jesus?

And they say "No he doesn't"

I have even had people say even after showing them the verse "No that's not true" or "Only if I'm perfect, do not sin, have no problems"

Truly heartbreaking.

I genuinely feel that God does not want our works, he wants our love, he wants relationship.

If we can enter into that then fear is dispelled and as Jesus says "If you love me you will"

And yes we will because it's out of love and not fear or terror or to be saved.

If God expects us to be saved by our works then in a sense it's cruel and there would have been no need for Jesus to die.

I will bang on and on and on about his love for us.
This love that is constant and covers us.

People need to wake up and the smell the coffee.

God loves us as much as he loves Jesus.
This is not a lie because God is not a liar.

Anyone who does not believe it please know that it is true.
It must be because God is truth as well.

Sorry for the long post.
God loves us as much as He loves Jesus because we are covered by Jesus so He sees His Son in us.

It's like a father with a son. If someone loves that little boy son, the father will love that person because of the love they have for his son.

A father would rather a gift be given to his son...
than to himself.

God truly made us in His image.
This is another example.

Putting on Christ:
Mathew 22:11-14
Romans 13:14
Galatians 3:27
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
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What we can be sure of, is if a brother begins to hate his broth,er, for whatever reason, he is a murderer.


Murderers no longer have eternal life in them.


That’s why it’s so important to forgive.



“But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’ So his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.” Matthew 18:28-35



JPT
I agree that it's important to forgive...even though we may not understand exactly why and how this works in the spiritual world.

However, I wouldn't go so far as to say that if someone hates a brother, or another person, they are headed for hell.

Some persons just don't understand how important this is...AND, it's a sin just like any other sin.
We could always ask God to help us with our dislike or hatred of that person.

He will, of course.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,258
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God loves us as much as he loves Jesus.
This is not a lie because God is not a liar.
Sorry for the long post. (no problem :))
Hi BillG, yes this is such an amazing truth that you bring to the table that; "God loves us as much as He loves Jesus." We could study and apply this truth to our lives for an eternity and it would not be enough time to contemplate and enjoy the reality of it all, it's a truth almost too difficult to believe, yet I know its true.

John 17:23: Jesus' High Priestly Prayer
"I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, 'and loved them, even as You have loved Me."
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
6,488
2,317
113
God loves us as much as He loves Jesus because we are covered by Jesus so He sees His Son in us.

It's like a father with a son. If someone loves that little boy son, the father will love that person because of the love they have for his son.

A father would rather a gift be given to his son...
than to himself.

God truly made us in His image.
This is another example.

Putting on Christ:
Mathew 22:11-14
Romans 13:14
Galatians 3:27
No God loves us as much as he loves Jesus because he died for us.

We put on Christ out of love, not fear.
Yes we are covered by the blood of Jesus but it's his perfect love that draws us and works in us.

In a sense is not Jesus a gift to us?

I don't get what you are trying to say with your first sentence.

With regards to your second sentence, if I am reading it right then I have to say that I disagree.

The reason being is that it comes across as saying "That God only loves us because we love back"

If that is the case then such love is conditional. It's not Agape love.
If so then we John 3:16 needs to be questioned.

Let me know if I need misunderstood
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
39,463
11,578
113
Well doggone....!! Thanks Dcon! We have to be so careful with the conclusions that we come to. And be willing to hear from Holy Spirit without preconceived ideas about these issues that are less important but unravel our views about the simplicity of the gospel through Paul. We are a revelation of God!

Did you ever hear that the body of Christ is like an interruption in time? And when fulfilled...the history of the Jews begin again?

I think about this a lot. We all have a destiny to be played out in our life. None of us are unimportant to Him as members of His body.

Also, did you know that Australia has prophecies on it for what's about to happen? Very instrumental in the awakening.

If you aren't yet back....have a great flight home!
What prophecies -->concerning AUSTRALIA......YOU CAN IM me if u choose
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
158
43
DON'T JUST CLAIM BUT WALK THE TALK.

... This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. IF WE CLAIM to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, WE LIE and do not live by the truth. But if we WALK in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. IF WE CLAIM to be without sin, WE DECEIVE OURSELVES and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. IF WE CLAIM we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and HIS WORD HAS NO PLACE IN OUR LIVES. 1 John 1:5-10

...Then Jesus told them, “You are going to have the light just a little while longer. WALK while you have the light, before darkness overtakes you. The man who WALKS in the dark does not know where he is going. John 12:35

...Whoever CLAIMS to live in him must WALK as Jesus did. 1 John 2:6

...But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and WALKS around in the darkness; he does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded him. 1 John 2:11

...And this is love: that we WALK in OBEDIENCE to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK in LOVE. 2 John 1:6

... Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother. Love One Another This is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous. Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you. We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him. This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, HOW CAN THE LOVE OF GOD BE IN HIM? Dear children, LET US NOT LOVE WITH WORDS or tongue BUT WITH ACTIONS AND IN TRUTH. 1 John 3:7-18
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
No God loves us as much as he loves Jesus because he died for us.

We put on Christ out of love, not fear.
Yes we are covered by the blood of Jesus but it's his perfect love that draws us and works in us.

In a sense is not Jesus a gift to us?

I don't get what you are trying to say with your first sentence.

With regards to your second sentence, if I am reading it right then I have to say that I disagree.

The reason being is that it comes across as saying "That God only loves us because we love back"

If that is the case then such love is conditional. It's not Agape love.
If so then we John 3:16 needs to be questioned.

Let me know if I need misunderstood
I really never use the word fear.
I don't know why you do...

You're allowed to disagree...
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
158
43
Jesus died on the cross so that the Holy Spirit can be in us to empower and enable us to meet the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law.

...For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, IN ORDER THAT THE RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENTS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. IT DOES NOT SUBMIT TO GOD'S LAW, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. Romans 8:3-8

If someone is being led by the Spirit, he will not say that works done by those who teaches obedience to God have no bearing unto salvation and that they are just filthy rags.

It is blasphemy to the Holy Spirit to call the works He is doing in a believer, the little ones who believe in Him, as filthy rags and has no bearing unto salvation.

Those who teach obedience to God are led by the Spirit since no one without the Spirit will teach obedience to God because there is no Holy Spirit in them that is leading them to obey, and teach obedience to God, to other people.

Did the Lord Jesus Christ, the prophets, apostles, disciples and all the Holy men of God obey and teach obedience to God? YES .

..If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:26-29

DO NOT just listen and CLAIM and then BOAST THAT you are SAVED and others are not. Jesus will save His BODY who are eagerly awaiting a Savior from heaven. It is not a PERSONAL SALVATION but He will SAVE HIS BODY which is the Church.(Ephesians 5:23)

So if you are not IN HIM because you have RUN AHEAD and claimed victory without the HEAD who is the Lord Jesus Christ, THINK IT OVER.

...ANYONE WHO RUNS AHEAD and does not continue in the teaching of Christ DOES NOT HAVE GOD; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9

...Not that I have already obtained all this, or have ALREADY BEEN MADE PERFECT, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. ONLY LET US LIVE UP TO WHAT WE HAVE ALREADY ATTAINED. Philippians 3:12-16

...These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. God had planned something better for us so that ONLY TOGETHER WITH US (A NEW CREATION ÌN CHRIST CREATED UNTO GOOD WORKS- Ephesians 2:10-22) would they be made perfect. Hebrews 11:39-40
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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Am I the only one here who loves the snow and cold temperatures? Maybe its my ethnic background but I love me some cold weather. Bring on the snow and -20Celsius degrees.

I cant STAND bugs, scorching heat, humidity, being unable to sleep in the summer.

Looove me some winter. Its easier to get warm in the winter, than to cool off in the summer.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Am I the only one here who loves the snow and cold temperatures? Maybe its my ethnic background but I love me some cold weather. Bring on the snow and -20Celsius degrees.

I cant STAND bugs, scorching heat, humidity, being unable to sleep in the summer.

Looove me some winter. Its easier to get warm in the winter, than to cool off in the summer.
It doesn't have to go from one extreme to the other...