Not By Works

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GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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517
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most people I know in real life (i roam around the pentecostal crowd) agree with you. Thats why im not so surprised by what you are saying as some may be. I know in America that OSAS is the baptist standard, so maybe its more unusual if you are also American to be against it.

I dont believe its a cop-out to say that we love, therefore we obey.
Why did you obey your mom growing up? Because you loved your mother, or because you had to?
I loved my mother.
But I obeyed her because I had to.
She wouldn't let me go out with my little friends unless I did the stairs first.
I wasn't too thrilled about it....but I did them so I could go play board games on the steps.
Those were the "good ole' days"!

I don't know any kid that does everything his parents tell him because he loves them so much.
Do you?
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
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In the Spirit there are unending experiences. One likened it to rooms of a house. That I've never experienced.
I feel like a kindergartener in these things.
You're talking about St. Teresa of Avila.
I studied this.
You would like what she wrote...
See if you'd like to order this book:

1547753210519.jpeg

The interior castle has 7 rooms...each one gets us closer to God.
Each one has its own experiences.
It's very good.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
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Lets be serious, if you did not love your mother, you either obeyed out of fear, or you did not obay at all
When YOU were growing up...
you could not obey at all and get away with it?
With God, you can't get away with it.
No matter what you think.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,639
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You're talking about St. Teresa of Avila.
I studied this.
You would like what she wrote...
See if you'd like to order this book:

View attachment 193186

The interior castle has 7 rooms...each one gets us closer to God.
Each one has its own experiences.
It's very good.
I wasn't actually, is a minister. But, am sure I would enjoy reading it.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
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The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.

These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)

...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13

...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2

How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?

We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.

Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?

..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Matthew 24:10‭-‬14‭, ‬24

...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11:13‭-‬15

...And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6‭-‬7

...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”... Genesis 3:1‭-‬19

Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.

The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God.

Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why REFUSE to take heed of them?

So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?
... Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:15-16
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Well Dcon,
If also YOU do not know what WORKS OF THE LAW means...
then it's no ownder you're totally confused about what Jesus and Paul and Peter and James, etc.
taught.
I am not confused about anything Fran........but you on the other hand.......conflation station would be two good words to describe why you cannot get past your self saving Jesus needs help gospel.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Whatever you care to believe is fine with me....
But for those seeking the truth...
faith includes works.

Works of obedience.
Obedience of faith.

Faith in Jesus Christ
produces Obedience in Jesus Christ.

Romans 16:25-27 Paul says:
25Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past,
26but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;
27to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, be the glory forever. Amen.
More conflation on your part......faith alone saves a man.....works is not part of the saving equation....works do not help save, keep saved and or top off salvation......
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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We are not under the law of Moses, but are we not under the law of Christ? Do we need to be concerned with this law of Christ?

Any OBEDIENCE, that does NOT HAVE OUR SINCERE LOVE as the MOTIVE for the Deeds, is nothing more than FILTHY RAGS.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.


It is NEVER I have to keep HIS commands, it is ALWAYS I want to keep HIS COMMANDS.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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R,
That is NOT what I'm saying.
My granddaughter is autistic. All she could do is love God. I doubt she can do any works for Him.
She's as saved as saved can be. She loves Jesus with all her heart.

Some people will never do works, for many reasons.
What I'm saying is that we must OBEY God. Obedience includes works.
What do YOU do for God?
Think about it.
Don't you do anything for Him?
Are you married?
Do you work?

Read this:

Colossiand 3:23-24
23Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men,
24knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.


If you do lots of works but do not love God, THAT is working under the law. This type of work has no meaning to God because He is not in your heart.

If you love God and obey Him and do what He tells you to do, then He DOES appreciate what you do for Him and He dwells with you.
First of all , I am so happy to know that your granddaughter is saved , and when home with the Lord , she will have a new body , thank you for sharing that...
I do believe in walking in the spirit , I want to obey God all the time , but I fail often , but I do not wilfully sin against him , we are sinners , and will be until we go to be home with Him...

Salvation is a process , we work out our Salvation with what God has put in us , but we all stumble and miss the mark because we are not yet perfect , but we are still saved by His grace through faith , not by works , lest we boast , and the more I read Gods word , the more He assures me...

I know I am His because His spirit lets me know , even when I fail Him , He will let me know because it is Him who calls us to repent...

For nearly two years of me walking with our Lord , I was mentally sick , just out of weekly sessions from a mental hospital , I did no work for Him , yet in that time He was healing me , I was still saved...xox...
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
maybe you could read the sermon on the mount, ( I told you this yesterday , you ignored it ), and then see if you keep that standard 100% of the time.

because, at the end Jesus states "you shall be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect . "

God's standard is perfection . can you be perfectly obedient ?
...During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, HE BECAME THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek. Hebrews 5:7-10

...As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD. James 2:26

...FAITH THAT WORKETH IN LOVE. Galatians 5:6

...For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also to suffer for him, Philippians 1:29

...As God’s fellow workers we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain. 2 Corinthians 6:1

BELIEVERS should not worry that they may not be able to meet GOD'S standard through their obedience. GOD'S GRACE is sufficient for us.

...But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for MY POWER IS MADE PERFECT IN WEAKNESS” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong. 2 Corinthians 12:9-10
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Would you agree that those that are saved are doing the will of Jesus and following him in his footsteps, because the Holy Spirit has created a new person in them that causes them to be doing what the master wants us to do?
That is a loaded question......I would say that those that are saved are of every level of maturity and or faithfulness in their walk.....some more than others. This also includes those who are saved and disobedient that get chastened of the Lord, as well as those who will be found with works of wood, hay and stubble YET saved so as by fire..........God only whips children and there is but one reason that a child gets whipped, that being disobedience!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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No sir.
I push a works plus grace gospel to maintain MY salvation.
You'll have to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Philippians 2:12

You should also read
Thessalonians 2:13 that tells us we are saved through sanctification by the spirit and faith in the truth.

I don't know if sanctification is well-understood by some.
Underlined above...false and conflated truths to equal false gospel
Italicized above...Does not equal a works based/kept salvation more conflations and error
Bolded above....Correct, you being one of the "some".........dual usage which you cannot seem to grasp
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Well Rosemary,
I answered you.
Did the thief on the cross do any works?
What did Jesus tell him?

Most persons on this thread have two arms and two legs and a brain and can do things.
I'm having enough problems trying to proclaim the truth here....
It's not necessary to bring up this type of question.
If you read your bible and know God....then you and I both know the answer.
Fran....as much as I like you, I have to say that you do not proclaim the truth.....a conflation of numerous truths into a false quagmire is more like it......
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I cant do that because then i would be teaching we earn our salvation by our works not grace, and in doing so, reject grace. And reject salvation.

But you refuse to see that, because your trying to earn your salvation with your works, good luck with that. I will preach we obey out of love, we love because he first loved us, not in order to gain his love, something you have no understanding of.

Why wouod this be any different than saying i MUST obey in order to EARN my salvation.

You can twist words to fool yourself, but your not fooling me.
She states clearly that she teaches and believes a works plus grace to maintain her salvation....<---boils down to a salvation based upon her works and what she does as opposed to JESUS and what he has done and does......simple as....
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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Underlined above...false and conflated truths to equal false gospel
Italicized above...Does not equal a works based/kept salvation more conflations and error
Bolded above....Correct, you being one of the "some".........dual usage which you cannot seem to grasp
I see that clearly...God does not say For it is by works you are saved through faith , all by yourself so you can boast , that is saying the same above that is underlined in her post...xox...
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I dont know why but I like you.

But lets take a step back here and look at it:

We are saved only by faith, but to REMAIN saved, we have to do A,B,C..

The problem I have with this is that, how do you explain all the verses that speak of ETERNAL LIFE in the present tense? Meaning, you HAVE eternal life, right now.
If you have eternal life right now, this second, but it ends tomorrow, was it eternal?

How do you get around that? Or are you suggesting that the eternal life begins only in the resurrection? Thats fine by me, but what shall we do with the present tense then?
Other than saving faith NO one can do a, b, or even c to maintain that which is already eternally given as an irrevocable gift.......
 
Dec 12, 2013
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But there are many many of people in the world like that , you are saying without works , people in that situation cannot be saved.
Exactly what she believes......she stated above that she believes a salvation that she MUST MAINTAIN by a cafe blend of works and grace.....Galatians condemns this as false.....so does Titus, Timothy, Ephesians, John, Romans etc...........
 
Dec 12, 2013
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most people I know in real life (i roam around the pentecostal crowd) agree with you. Thats why im not so surprised by what you are saying as some may be. I know in America that OSAS is the baptist standard, so maybe its more unusual if you are also American to be against it.

I dont believe its a cop-out to say that we love, therefore we obey.
Why did you obey your mom growing up? Because you loved your mother, or because you had to?
I would like to embellish the bolded.....it is the biblical standard.....

Jesus was clear....the plenteous in number will claim...

a. Faith -->Lord Lord
b. Works --> Have we not done many wonderful works in YOUR NAME

Faith plus works for salvation.......exactly what MOST teach and exactly why the NUMBER will be plenteous!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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R,
That is NOT what I'm saying.
My granddaughter is autistic. All she could do is love God. I doubt she can do any works for Him.
She's as saved as saved can be. She loves Jesus with all her heart.

Some people will never do works, for many reasons.
What I'm saying is that we must OBEY God. Obedience includes works.
What do YOU do for God?
Think about it.
Don't you do anything for Him?
Are you married?
Do you work?

Read this:

Colossiand 3:23-24
23Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men,
24knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.


If you do lots of works but do not love God, THAT is working under the law. This type of work has no meaning to God because He is not in your heart.

If you love God and obey Him and do what He tells you to do, then He DOES appreciate what you do for Him and He dwells with you.
So...faith alone for her is o.k....everyone else faith plus works to maintain......double standard.........tragic......! And before you mouth or accuse....I never once said she was lost.............just pointing out your double standard........

Faith alone saves a man, woman or even autistic child......works do not maintain, embellish and or finish off that which has already been a completed ACT with present continuing results........