Not By Works

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calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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lawton ok
If the crucifixion fulfill the law and proves Jesus loves us. The resurrection proves he has power over sin, death and the law too. Don't forget he IS god, not was.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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Of course you can get it back.
God will never forsake you nor leave you.
Only YOU can leave GOD.

Does Jesus not look for the lost sheep?
Does the father of the Prodigal Son not take him back with open arms and a feast?

Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26 are totally different.
If you want to get into it, I'm willing...
But please be really interested...I've gone through this before.
Salvation is not something that can be lost....get over it.......and if it can be lost.....IT cannot be gotten back.......eternal life is not temporary based upon performance...........
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
THE PATH IS NARROW BECAUSE IT'S DIFFICULT!

You seem to get everything backwards!
;)
What is this difficulty which Jesus keeps telling us about over and over again....SELF

You want to find the narrow path the message is clear get over yourself.

So what do all the workers for salvation state..... I am obedient, I am good, I am faithful, I am performing, I am working.....I.... I ....I ....
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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If we don't do it does not mean we do not love him.
Maybe because of a lack of faith or we yield to the flesh.

Do you believe that when Jesus said "if you love me you will be obedient" he was talking about 100% obedience or a heart that seeks that?
Have to go Bill.
I have 25 alerts and it's more than I can handle.

1. Nobody is 100% obedient. Let's stop saying unbiblical things. 1 John.
2. Yes, a heart that seeks the best it can do. Jesus KNEW we couldn't be 100% obedient...Only HE was 100% obedient to the Father which made His sacrifice acceptable. The opposite of Adam...right?
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Sorry but you do.

Given the verses that you posted back about works keeps us saved.

Post 81,925

You like those verses, don't you?
The bible is one whole idea.
We pluck verses out because that's what we do here.
If you read the N.T. from cover to cover, it will become apparent that salvation can be lost.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
James is talking to the 12 tribes who have been scattered. It would be a mistake and assumption that he is just writing the truly saved believers.
That is a complete assumption from the get go...good try though.

James addresses his readers as believers, employing the term “brothers” (adelphoi) 19 times. Three of these uses are found in the intimate address, “my beloved brothers” (adelphoi mou agape ̄ toi). In the epistles, only 1 Corinthians has a greater use of the term “brothers” (39 times). Romans and 1 Thessalonians tie with James for 19 uses.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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i havent seen you go through it. i want to know what you believe about hebrews 6:4-6 and hebrews 10:26.
Hey H,

I'll answer you and then I'll be back later.

Hebrews 6:4-6
4For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.


First, I'd like to say that the above can also be used to show how salvation can be forfeited because it speaks about "falling away". But God is a just God and will always welcome us back.

We have to remember to whom Paul was speaking in Hebrews. He was speaking to his brethren, the Jews who had lived all their life following rules and regulations and trying to follow the 613 laws of Moses if they wished to be saved. This is what they were used to.

Paul had a revolutionary message....he was trying to teach them that they would be saved by faith in God. It was their faith that would save them....not their works UNDER THE LAW of Moses. Jesus wants us to be changed from the inside out....He wants our heart...not the outer appearance.

So these Jews had "tried" to leave their law-filled life but they started to have doubts as to whether or not they did the right thing. This was a big change for them. Paul was telling them that if they went back to the Law, after understanding about the love of Jesus for them and the "new way"... there would be no other way to save them because they'd be putting Jesus to shame by showing that they trusted the Law instead of Jesus who had died to save them.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Hebrews 10:26-29
26
For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?


This, instead, is speaking about HOW we actually can lose our salvation if we don't obey God.
verse 26 If we WILLFULLY go on sinning. IOW, we sin with no regard for God,,,we don't confess our sins...we don't feel sorry for them... IOW, is God really in our heart? If He was, have we abandoned Him and returned to our previous life-style which might have had a lot of sin in it?

If we do this, we will face judgement by Jesus.
See John 5:28-29

Two or three witnesses were needed for the law of Moses to be effectual in that it required a person to be killed for disobeying a commandment. How much more grievous will it be to disrespect Jesus, God's only Son, when we willfully sin after knowing and understanding how good He is to us, that He gave His life for us. verses 28 and 29

Please remember that some have turned back to a life of sin and then felt sorrow for this and came back to God.

But some feel they are saved once and then can live as they want to and still be saved.
This is not true and common sense would make us understand this.

Must go now...
later.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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Where does Paul say they works keep us saved?

Galatians 6:9-10
9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.

I cannot recall where Paul has said works keep us saved.

But he did say

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
There are no verses in context that states or even implies that works save us or even keep us saved.......salvation is a one off eternal event with present continuing results from a past completed action based upon grace through faith.......
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
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That is a complete assumption from the get go...good try though.

James addresses his readers as believers, employing the term “brothers” (adelphoi) 19 times. Three of these uses are found in the intimate address, “my beloved brothers” (adelphoi mou agape ̄ toi). In the epistles, only 1 Corinthians has a greater use of the term “brothers” (39 times). Romans and 1 Thessalonians tie with James for 19 uses.
@eternally-gratefull is right.

I'm sure he doesn't want my help.
but when he's right, he's right.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
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There are no verses in context that states or even implies that works save us or even keep us saved.......salvation is a one off eternal event with present continuing results from a past completed action based upon grace through faith.......
Oh D.
Show us some verses and explain them....
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,118
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So everything you do 100% of the time is for God? What you said sounds like what the Mormons teach. In 2 Nephi 25:23 in the Book of Mormon, we read - For we labor diligently to write, to persuadeour children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

In other words, do all you can or else the Lord will not be able to save you? :unsure:

That’s not what we read in God’s word in Ephesians 2:8,9.
The workers for and Cainologists go by many names---->they can all be lumped together under the 'Plenteous in Number" group that will not make the cut in the end....
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,118
20,044
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Nar
THE PATH IS NARROW BECAUSE IT'S DIFFICULT!

You seem to get everything backwards!
;)
Narrow path ---->FAITH alone to save eternally (the minority)

Broad path ----->Faith plus works to gain or keep and losable (The plenteous in number that gets cast)-->Majority
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
@eternally-gratefull is right.

I'm sure he doesn't want my help.
but when he's right, he's right.
Well he is not right...but that is okay at least we know and are persuaded by God's Holy Spirit not man's eisegesis that saved means saved, such a simple concept, that you my dear rage against, you prefer that God be in your debt.

It really takes a lot of "self" to put God in that position.

I am not speaking to you anymore Grace101....history is repeating sadly.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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That is a complete assumption from the get go...good try though.

James addresses his readers as believers, employing the term “brothers” (adelphoi) 19 times. Three of these uses are found in the intimate address, “my beloved brothers” (adelphoi mou agape ̄ toi). In the epistles, only 1 Corinthians has a greater use of the term “brothers” (39 times). Romans and 1 Thessalonians tie with James for 19 uses.
They are his brothers

All americans are my brothers and sisters, whether they are saved or not, thats why i spent 15 years in the military.

I am not assuming anything

And you still have context you have yet to respond to,

James asked, can that faith save them!

How can i take james to mean anything other than what he said, can a dead faith save?
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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False ALERT................the bolded is as false as can be.....
Hi decon, you are absolutely right this is a "False Alert", and it's because of posts like this that
Fran aka GodsGrace101 should put on report period.
If you read the N.T. from cover to cover, it will become apparent that salvation can be lost.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
They are his brothers

All americans are my brothers and sisters, whether they are saved or not, thats why i spent 15 years in the military.

I am not assuming anything

And you still have context you have yet to respond to,

James asked, can that faith save them!

How can i take james to mean anything other than what he said, can a dead faith save?
I will respond, I like discussing this topic with you, you make me think, but first I need to be sure, I am no longer wanting to be pulled into another conversation with Fran, so first.... some nice soothing tea....

 (4).jpg
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
bill's question was not dumb.

neither was mine.

you say that we are saved by grace, then maintained by works.

o.k., if that is true, then what is the formula?

if I am to maintain my salvation by works/obedience then how many I am to do? how much disobedience will disqualify me?

I mean, if this is true, then there has to be a consistency , because God is no respecter of persons.

if your theology cannot answer questions , then it is not real theology. it's just an opinion.
ARE you asking for requirements?

...“You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. WHAT DID WE GAIN BY CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not. Malachi 3:13-18

King Solomon who was given wisdom more than yours and mine said;

... “Meaningless! Meaningless!” says the Teacher. “Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless.” Ecclesiastes 1:1-18

But in the end he said;

...Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: FEAR GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, for this is the WHOLE DUTY OF MAN. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil. Ecclesiastes 12:13-14

Did Jesus agree with this or did He say otherwise?

...Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.” “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’” “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE.”

DO you believe that with God all things are possible?

Now, can we carry out His REQUIREMENTS if we are WITH GOD?

...For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:3-4

...But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong. 2 Corinthians 12:9-10
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I will respond, I like discussing this topic with you, you make me think, but first I need to be sure, I am no longer wanting to be pulled into another conversation with Fran, so first.... some nice soothing tea....

View attachment 193429
I have her on ignore, better that way
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Salvation is not something that can be lost....get over it.......and if it can be lost.....IT cannot be gotten back.......eternal life is not temporary based upon performance...........
I guess the problem here is OSAS,,,not so much whether or not we need to do works.
If a person believes he can never lose salvation, of course he can think whatever he wants to think, and do whatever he wants to do.

Another member on this thread has some idea that if we DO lose our salvation --- due to whatever reason --- God will not take us back. And hereupon lies the problem.

As they say, two wrongs never made a right.
We can both: lose salvation AND get it back. No problem.

Eternal life is promised to us
IF we are IN JESUS.
IF we DWELL with Him.
IF we BELIEVE in Him.

Can we be saved, and then become lost?

How would you explain the Prodigal Son?
He was saved, then lost, then saved again.
Luke 15:11 .......