Not By Works

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GodsGrace101

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Sep 14, 2018
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ARE you asking for requirements?

...“You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. WHAT DID WE GAIN BY CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not. Malachi 3:13-18

King Solomon who was given wisdom more than yours and mine said;

... “Meaningless! Meaningless!” says the Teacher. “Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless.” Ecclesiastes 1:1-18

But in the end he said;

...Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: FEAR GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, for this is the WHOLE DUTY OF MAN. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil. Ecclesiastes 12:13-14

Did Jesus agree with this or did He say otherwise?

...Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.” “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’” “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE.”

DO you believe that with God all things are possible?

Now, can we carry out His REQUIREMENTS if we are WITH GOD?

...For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:3-4

...But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong. 2 Corinthians 12:9-10
Hi A,

You're very good with scripture.
As I read what you post, everything seems so clear to me.
I must say I do wonder how theology could be so different for some.
I've come to the conclusion that the problem is not works but eternal security...
guess it sure took me long enough.

The bible is also clear on this.
I don't see OSAS in any verse or verses.
Not only that but I can't think of any early church teaching on being saved as being once and for all.
Certainly the early theologians would have had this concept if it were so easy to ascertain from the letters that had been circling the churches at that time.

Would you agree?
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Or the path is narrow because there's no room to carry anything except Light.
I agree Stone.

Is this what you think Jesus meant when He said that we should let our light shine before men that they may see our good works?

Mathew 5:16 JESUS SAID
16“Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven."

Jesus said our good works will glorify our Father in heaven.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,508
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Salvation is not something that can be lost....get over it.......and if it can be lost.....IT cannot be gotten back.......eternal life is not temporary based upon performance...........
Amen! Salvation is not probation. Eternal life is not temporary life. Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,590
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Hi A,

You're very good with scripture.
As I read what you post, everything seems so clear to me.
I must say I do wonder how theology could be so different for some.
I've come to the conclusion that the problem is not works but eternal security...
guess it sure took me long enough.

The bible is also clear on this.
I don't see OSAS in any verse or verses.
Not only that but I can't think of any early church teaching on being saved as being once and for all.
Certainly the early theologians would have had this concept if it were so easy to ascertain from the letters that had been circling the churches at that time.

Would you agree?
Hi again friend

I read your post on Hebrews 10:26 and Hebrews 6:4-6 and you kind of made my point for me: As long as you are repentant of your sins, you are stil lsaved even in your belief system.

So really there is no practical difference between you and the OSAS believer other than the OSAS believer doesn't believe the Holy Spirit jumps back and forth in and out of the believer.
I believe in perseverence of the saints which means I believe that a born again man or woman of God will always be repentant, therefore the loss of salvation is a NON ISSUE!

To me this is an ODD debate, if you KNOW whom you have believed, to stop believing seems CRAZY.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I guess the problem here is OSAS,,,not so much whether or not we need to do works.
If a person believes he can never lose salvation, of course he can think whatever he wants to think, and do whatever he wants to do.

Another member on this thread has some idea that if we DO lose our salvation --- due to whatever reason --- God will not take us back. And hereupon lies the problem.

As they say, two wrongs never made a right.
We can both: lose salvation AND get it back. No problem.

Eternal life is promised to us
IF we are IN JESUS.
IF we DWELL with Him.
IF we BELIEVE in Him.

Can we be saved, and then become lost?

How would you explain the Prodigal Son?
He was saved, then lost, then saved again.
Luke 15:11 .......
Round and round here we go.....No, No and No..........Fran, your assessments above do not make the cut........and how many times do we have to cover the same moot arguments........Eternal life is given at the moment of belief, verb tense indicates a present continuing result from a past completed action, a plethora of scripture, promises and power of Christ must be swept under the rug to believe or teach a losable salvation and the Prodigal son never lost being a son throughout the whole process and was ONLY PERCEIVED as DEAD even though he was VERY MUCH ALIVE.............

The ONLY "IF" when it comes to eternal life is IF we have believed the gospel and confessed said belief.......With the MIND man believes and with the Mouth CONFESSION is made unto SALVATION.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,725
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Round and round here we go.....No, No and No..........Fran, your assessments above do not make the cut........and how many times do we have to cover the same moot arguments........Eternal life is given at the moment of belief, verb tense indicates a present continuing result from a past completed action, a plethora of scripture, promises and power of Christ must be swept under the rug to believe or teach a losable salvation and the Prodigal son never lost being a son throughout the whole process and was ONLY PERCEIVED as DEAD even though he was VERY MUCH ALIVE.............

The ONLY "IF" when it comes to eternal life is IF we have believed the gospel and confessed said belief.......With the MIND man believes and with the Mouth CONFESSION is made unto SALVATION.
I think some people need to meditate on " dead in our trespasses and sins, made alive in Christ Jesus."

notice- made alive. not will be made alive if..........
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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I just want to say , it is heavy on my heart that the horrific death of our LORD and Savior was not enough for some who think that through all His promises to those who believe turn and think they have to do more...
How is it that God leads us to His beautiful truth , who gives us assurance that we are saved by His grace , by faith which is a gift from Him who also grows our faith as we grow in Him...
I believe some are so busy digging their rabbit holes that they have taken their eyes of Jesus , just take what God said , We are saved by grace through faith , not by works lest anyone boast , and from there we grow , Jesus is our teacher , He teaches us everyday , I just don`t get how people see different from this...xox...
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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Sorry but I just want to add...A baby Christian as he/she grows will have lots of concerns , and will be swayed by mans words...I know I was , one day I thought I was saved , the next I thought I was lost , it was only through reading Gods word daily and the help of many faithful brothers and sisters in here that my mind was renewed ,
I don`t understand how a person who claims to be mature in Christ can believe in the loss of Salvation , not only is Christ a gift to us from God , but when we get home to heaven , we will be presented to Jesus as a love gift from God...
Today I am feeling hurt that Jesus dying for our sins , taking our place , being separated from His Father as He took the wrath of God that we deserve , is not being taken for what it is ...This thread has become loud and full of battle , I understand we must swing our sword , I am looking forward to this thread becoming a place of peace again , love you all...xox...
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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If you read the N.T. from cover to cover, it will become apparent that 'salvation can be lost.'
Hi forum, the fallacy of Frans gospel continues and it is not "good news", she has no eternal security and admits it, her counterfeit gospel has no peace that passes all understanding and it cannot save a lost soul. Instead she offers a modern day Pharisee type of gospel where you need to work to maintain your free gift of salvation.

Now Fran adds her OSAS strawman argument hoping we will go and try to prove her wrong. To most people on this thread the bible is clear that Christians have been sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption and that our Savior will never leave or forsake us as orphans. And Fran just cannot see this truth in the bible, makes you wonder.
I've come to the conclusion that 'the problem is not works but eternal security'...guess it sure took me long enough.

I don't see OSAS in any verse or verses. Not only that but I can't think of any early church teaching on being saved as being once and for all.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Hi forum, the fallacy of Frans gospel continues and it is not "good news", she has no eternal security and admits it, her counterfeit gospel has no peace that passes all understanding and it cannot save a lost soul. Instead she offers a modern day Pharisee type of gospel where you need to work to maintain your free gift of salvation.

Now Fran adds her OSAS strawman argument hoping we will go and try to prove her wrong. To most people on this thread the bible is clear that Christians have been sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption and that our Savior will never leave or forsake us as orphans. And Fran just cannot see this truth in the bible, makes you wonder.

Thank you, Thank you, TruthTalk........................ I needed to read this today!!!!:)

We need to combat these lies always and everyday!!
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Hi again friend

I read your post on Hebrews 10:26 and Hebrews 6:4-6 and you kind of made my point for me: As long as you are repentant of your sins, you are stil lsaved even in your belief system.

So really there is no practical difference between you and the OSAS believer other than the OSAS believer doesn't believe the Holy Spirit jumps back and forth in and out of the believer.
I believe in perseverence of the saints which means I believe that a born again man or woman of God will always be repentant, therefore the loss of salvation is a NON ISSUE!

To me this is an ODD debate, if you KNOW whom you have believed, to stop believing seems CRAZY.
I don't believe the Holy Spirit jumps in and out of believers. That sound silly to me and God is very serious. I feel that if a person leaves God ONE TIME in their whole life, and then come back --- that's already one time too many....it certainly is not easy to leave God's love.

Leaving God is a very serious decision and to me it also sounds pretty crazy.
The problem is that we all know persons that have done this...you don't?

Also, you're using the word "repent" but you really mean "feel sorry for".
We repent when we come to God.
We feel sorry when we sin.

BTW, I speak of a life of sin which is different from sinning.
A life of sin cannot be lived if a person is truly Christian.
But we all sin.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
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Round and round here we go.....No, No and No..........Fran, your assessments above do not make the cut........and how many times do we have to cover the same moot arguments........Eternal life is given at the moment of belief, verb tense indicates a present continuing result from a past completed action, a plethora of scripture, promises and power of Christ must be swept under the rug to believe or teach a losable salvation and the Prodigal son never lost being a son throughout the whole process and was ONLY PERCEIVED as DEAD even though he was VERY MUCH ALIVE.............

The ONLY "IF" when it comes to eternal life is IF we have believed the gospel and confessed said belief.......With the MIND man believes and with the Mouth CONFESSION is made unto SALVATION.
You keep saying that we believe with our mind...
That's what even the demons did.
Do you mean that we believe with our heart?

Romans 10:10
10For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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I just don`t get how people see different from this...xox...
Hi Rosemaryx, I agree with you. I believe some people are void of God's Holy Spirit and have an agenda that they try to "force" on anyone who will buy into their lies.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
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I think some people need to meditate on " dead in our trespasses and sins, made alive in Christ Jesus."

notice- made alive. not will be made alive if..........
Made alive
IN CHRIST....
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
I just want to say , it is heavy on my heart that the horrific death of our LORD and Savior was not enough for some who think that through all His promises to those who believe turn and think they have to do more...
How is it that God leads us to His beautiful truth , who gives us assurance that we are saved by His grace , by faith which is a gift from Him who also grows our faith as we grow in Him...
I believe some are so busy digging their rabbit holes that they have taken their eyes of Jesus , just take what God said , We are saved by grace through faith , not by works lest anyone boast , and from there we grow , Jesus is our teacher , He teaches us everyday , I just don`t get how people see different from this...xox...
What does He teach you?
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Hi Rosemaryx, I agree with you. I believe some people are void of God's Holy Spirit and have an agenda that they try to "force" on anyone who will buy into their lies.
You know who is void of God's Holy Spirit?
People who do nothing but criticize others and tell them they aren't saved instead of just talking to them like any Christian would.

Mathew 7:5 JESUS SAID
5“You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye."

John 13:35 JESUS SAID
35“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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517
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The opposite to what you teach...
Don't have an answer, huh?

Can't you have a serious discussion?
Don't know how to handle any question except for making a snide remark?

You said Jesus teaches you.
He teaches you to make snide remarks to other Christians?

I never heard Him say this.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Hi Rosemaryx, I agree with you. I believe some people are void of God's Holy Spirit and have an agenda that they try to "force" on anyone who will buy into their lies.
Yes, I think they are called false teachers in scripture, what do they do, they want to strip believers of the joy and peace we have in Jesus.