Not By Works

oldethennew · Feb 3, 2019

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hey Hev,
I'm not quite getting just exactly what you are saying in your post - sorry, could u please explain in more detail
just what it is that u are sharing with us???, concerning your 'conviction'???

stillness · Feb 3, 2019

stonesoffire said:

Pondering that my reply to you wasn't convincing this word Came to mind
Revelation 2:4 "Nevertheless I have against you, that you have left your first love."

UnderGrace · Feb 3, 2019

Hevosmies said:

This is somewhat illogical since you are saying that at some point sins are no longer paid for, then the debt was not really paid in full?

Some people make this argument that only past and present sins are paid for not future, however God is eternal not temporal, as well this also would mean we would need to live a perfect life after we are regenerated. Again makes no sense.

VCO · Feb 3, 2019

UnderGrace said:

Sounds like HE DOES NOT KNOW.

UnderGrace · Feb 3, 2019

@dcontroversal

Well it would seem my posts have earned me four X's and one hands down

, how about that, should we have a competition

stillness · Feb 3, 2019

dcontroversal said:

Because the natural man can't receive things of the Spirit of God and Paul addressed Babes in Christ as still behaving as natural men, still unable to put off the old man and put on the new man, this is the divided condition they are in. Not a reason to separate ourselves from them, but to be gentle with them. "Of some making a difference puling them out of the fire, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh." There are sins of the spirit and sins of the flesh. "Let us cleanse ourselves from filthiness of the flesh and of the spirit, perfecting Holiness in the Fear of God. As we have a glimpse of wisdom we are cleansed in fellowship with God and not by our efforts; but Babes in Christ struggling on their own efforts are still accepted in Christ. "Whosoever will may come and drink of the water of Life freely." Our part is to continue in Love accepting we are slow learners, and so are they. We understand that salvation is a gift from God that will bring us to maturity as we remain in fellowship with Him and that apart from Him we can do nothing: we cant walk in Love, He is the Way. Stopping short on the Journey happens to both those who believe they are eternally secure but remain unchanged because they still love this present world. I have been there and I also struggled under the law to persevere, as the law expose us that we remained unchanged. I was as a babe or little child forgiven, but I was hearing the Lord and He did not address me with the law but with compassion when I was in sin. I do understand that we cant lose God, He doesn't get Lost, "If I make my bed in hell, Lord there you are with me." But we don't own salvation in the sense that it will save our ego. This is the reason some don't understand the language of eternal security. "Whoever seeks to save His life will lose it." The thief on the cross lost his life, we are called to bear the cross, at least as men, "To suffer the lost of all things that I may gain Christ." Effortless and fulfilling as we walk in Love and no other way will do. Many in both camps acknowledge, this is the work of God, that we come to God is at His feet, thinking we arrived, but the journey just begun and its being carried by the Holy Spirit, impossible otherwise. I'm referring to obtain a crow of Life and become eternal with God. The enemy's plan is to cause confusion here...

UnderGrace · Feb 3, 2019

stillness said:

Because the natural man can't receive things of the Spirit of God and Paul addressed Babes in Christ as still behaving as natural men, still unable to put off the old man and put on the new man, this is the divided condition they are in. Not a reason to separate ourselves from them, but to be gentle with them. "Of some making a difference puling them out of the fire, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh." There are sins of the spirit and sins of the flesh. "Let us cleanse ourselves from filthiness of the flesh and of the spirit, perfecting Holiness in the Fear of God. As we have a glimpse of wisdom we are cleansed in fellowship with God and not by our efforts; but Babes in Christ struggling on their own efforts are still accepted in Christ. "Whosoever will may come and drink of the water of Life freely." Our part is to continue in Love accepting we are slow learners, and so are they. We understand that salvation is a gift from God that will bring us to maturity as we remain in fellowship with Him and that apart from Him we can do nothing: we cant walk in Love, He is the Way. Stopping short on the Journey happens to both those who believe they are eternally secure but remain unchanged because they still love this present world. I have been there and I also struggled under the law to persevere, as the law expose us that we remained unchanged. I was as a babe or little child forgiven, but I was hearing the Lord and He did not address me with the law but with compassion when I was in sin. I do understand that we cant lose God, He doesn't get Lost, "If I make my bed in hell, Lord there you are with me." But we don't own salvation in the sense that it will save our ego. This is the reason some don't understand the language of eternal security. "Whoever seeks to save His life will lose it." The thief on the cross lost his life, we are called to bear the cross, at least as men, "To suffer the lost of all things that I may gain Christ." Effortless and fulfilling as we walk in Love and no other way will do. Many in both camps acknowledge, this is the work of God, that we come to God is at His feet, thinking we arrived, but the journey just begun and its being carried by the Holy Spirit, impossible otherwise. I'm referring to obtain a crow of Life and become eternal with God. The enemy's plan is to cause confusion here...

Interestingly, I understood the eternal assurance of the believer soon as someone took me through the scripture and taught me....

The Holy Spirit bore witness to my spirit and I knew the teacher spoke truth and scripture was very clear in so many places.

We have someone who comes to this thread quite often, a very lovely lady, and she took it to the Lord in prayer and she came to the thread one day and knew that God had shown her the truth of eternal salvation.

Jesus also tells us to shake the dust off our feet. Paul is also very clear about those who preach a different message.

There is no confusion for those who preach that a saved/justified person is saved/justified eternally...that in fact is the Gospel

VCO · Feb 3, 2019

ATTENTION:

I assume some do not know how to insert an AVATAR picture in your account:

For those who do not know how, here is the simple instructions. After you log on, click on Christian Forums, up top, just above the Page Numbers. In the right side column, entitled: CC MEMBERS ONLINE, find your NAME, and Click on it. Then on the second line from the top, click on Your account, right below DONATIONS. Then on that page you will find near the top the line for AVATAR, and click on the Picture. It will say right below the Picture: Click the image to change your avatar.

I am not sure what the size limit is for the AVATAR, but my odd size caused the left wing to be cut off. However, the two that I have in my file on my laptop are 291 x 215 or 160 x 118. However, I assume with the new ROUND Avatar, you should crop it to a Square, then resize it to about 190 x 190, and see if that works.

Magenta · Feb 3, 2019

VCO said:

It is recommended that you use an image that is at least 400x400 pixels.

Also, clicking the avatar image on the left hand side of the icons at the upper right hand of the page and then hovering over that avatar image with your cursor provides a link that takes you directly to where you can change your avatar

VCO · Feb 4, 2019

Magenta said:

Wow, I did not know it could be that large. Thanks.

stillness · Feb 4, 2019

My catholoc

UnderGrace said:

Shaking the dust of off our feet of people we don't discern as members of the body of Christ without slandering them as liars may be acceptable even if the board is in our own eye, as its the slander that disrupts our Love relationship with the Lord. They may be the ones with the speck that they cant pull out themselves and we should have no trouble seeing the board and getting it out ourselves. It may enrage us to see the Lord have compassion on such scum of the earth. The apostles were able to reckonise themselves as "The scum of the earth," and how great compassion the Lord showed them. I still grieve over having had a board in my eye from pride of achievement and not discern others accepted in the name of Jesus. This happened in the book of Acts after Paul shook the dust off a city off his feet, one year, and was received the following year had he slandered them it may not be so, and he may have lost his job, just kidding though. As obviously He was called and chosen and faithful to the point of death many times. This is the kind of patient endurance we need with one another, and I agree there are times to walk away. I experienced it here as well. As for me I don't see a difference of eternal security anywhere as its of God, but like you people here I struggle with those needing to enforce the law on others to feel better about themselves as Paul also mentioned. This is the worst nightmare and I also don't consider them lost but unable to grow up in their present condition, remaining as babes, and calling them babes isn't slander, but going beyond is. and we are better to walk away as you said shaking the dust of our feet, saying I can't fellowship with you it enrages me, would be fine but then walk away. Thanks for provoking me to answer and express. The Lord bless you on your Journey.

stonesoffire · Feb 4, 2019

stillness said:

God day sister on fire of God. You would not need to look further than this room to se that many here are not in the unity of the Spirit and interpret things according to the mind of the flesh.
Paul referred to immature believers as divided because they behaves like men in the flesh ruled by the sin nature.
Jesus said Let your eye be single and your whole body shall be full of light and if the Light (Spirit) that is in you be evil (divided) how great is that darkness.
Revelation 3:15
"A double minded man is unstable in all His ways." To be in the mind of the Spirit is to become one spirit with God.
Divided between a life for ourselves and a life in God, Is not having obeyed the Word. "Work out your salvation with Fear (Admiration of God) and trembling ("In His presence I fear and quake") for it is God that Is at Work in you to Will and do His good pleasure.
Those who think they own salvation, of the mind set that they have arrived and drawing others to be like them will remain in the nations of the saved where they desire to be, with others like them, nations are divided.
Paul explained the Work of God in us to bring us to the unity of the Spirit and preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. We only have the unity of the Spirit by being one Spirit with God, laying down our Life for the beloved Saviour:
"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but one thing (Grace), forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect (Or permitted to Go on to perfection by God, "Let us go on to perfection, and this we will do if God permits), be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
A Perfect man:
"For we all stumble in many ways, and if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body." "But no man can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison."
James who wrote both of these verses and did not give us an explanation that I'm aware. But you should know the answer, Self control is a fruit of the Spirit from dwelling in God. "He that has rule over His Spirit is stronger than he that captures a city." We have rule over our Spirit in the same Way. Those who are divided between a life after the flesh and a life in God are carnal, divided and causing divisions. Without the fullness of the Holy Spirit, we remain divided, "This kind does not come out but by prayer and fasting." "Often he falls into the fire(burning desire), and oft into the water (you can figure this one out)."
Blessed and holy he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." These are Holy, undivided.
“And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:”
"Behold I come quickly and My reward is with me to give to every man according to His work."

scripture

I just asked for a scripture that states our spirit can be divided. We can be doubleminded, yes. But, our spirit is sealed. Our spirit is where we have been lifed with eternal life. Our spirit has received the incorruptible seed.

It's our soul that needs to be unified with what we have within. And our mind needs renewed to the Word of truth concerning Jesus and what He has accomplished for all men. And concerning who and what we are, and are becoming by the Spirit of the Lord.

Do you see what I mean?

stonesoffire · Feb 4, 2019

dcontroversal said:

Hi Dcon

Something I found some years back.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Seed:

G4690
σπέρμα
sperma
sper'-mah
From G4687; somethng sown, that is, seed (including the male “sperm”); by implication offspring; specifically a remnant (figuratively as if kept over for planting): - issue, seed.
Total KJV occurrences: 44

Spiritual seed. The Word of the Lord endureth forever. Eternally. Eternal seed. Our spirit is eternal life and we have eternal salvation by that Word that endures forever.

This also ties in with the leaves of the tree of life which is sprouts in Greek. Or the exact replica of the promised "seed" that crushed the head of the serpent.

Forgot to add that the sprout is the exact replica of the tree of life, who is? We are the remnant. We are the sprouts. We are His seed!

stillness · Feb 4, 2019

stonesoffire said:

Yes dear and after replying here it came to mind that my answer wasn't clear. The simplicity of the answer I gave you next of having left our first Love is most fitting but there are other example. Those who desire to be in charge are divided worse than those who have left their first Love. Yes I am aware of the common teaching that our spirit is already seated in the resurrection with Christ, as if reigning already and Paul addressed that extreme view of already having a crown of Life with reproof And I mentioned already in a post there recently.
"Already you have all you want! Already you have become rich! You have begun to reign--and that without us! How I wish that you really had begun to reign so that we also might reign with you!"
Between the line here he is telling them, they are more vulnerable to be identified with the Last church in Revelation that thinks they are rich and don't know they are poor in spirit still.
That our soul is broken you understand and it needed to be broken stumbling against the Lord that we did not recognize in the least of His children. But this also affects our spirit, our spirit also falls in sin and in this condition we also cause divisions or simply isolate, without going further inwardly either. Like almost paralyzed by the enemy, being in addiction is the most appropriate example and when the Lord told me: Enter in as a little child and put away your divided spirit. A year later still struggling and turning to the Lord for help, woke up hearing: This kind does not come out but by prayer and fasting. While the divided spirit is more common than you realise I am not at all saying this about you. But if someone is quarrelsome, "Only by pride comes contention." Pride of achievement divides our spirit. Its fine to say we are Saved by Grace through Faith, but whatsoever is not of Faith is sin, pride of achievement causes God to resist us and causes us to be quarrelsome with others, I have been there.

stonesoffire · Feb 4, 2019

stillness said:

A common teaching that our spirit is already seated in the ressurection? Where did you get that from my post? Plus it's really that we are seated in the heavenlies with Him, not the ressurection. Ressurection power is a goal that Paul said he desired and desired for the churches.

Our spirit man is where Holy Spirit dwells within us. It's His goal to bring our soul, and body to salvation also.

It took years before I realized that I was Spirit, no longer flesh. And to be One with God is a goal also which will culminate in the day we pass over.

You have a hodge podge of scriptures that you take out of context and apply your own thoughts to. Where Paul was giving the rebuke you posted, that came from Christians dividing the body of Christ by stating who they were following. Paul, Apollo, and Jesus.

We are Spirit. We have a soul. And we live in a body.

That's the point! And the Word separates what is what.

stillness · Feb 4, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:

Dear God's Grace, I admire your teachable spirit
there is more to eternal security than what you mentioned here.
Let me mention briefly an extreme view of eternal security that the Catholics had in the middle age, based on all manner of sin shall be forgiven to man except rejecting the Holy Spirit, and why it became such a dangerous view. Before the reformation, there was a previous smaller reformation, who believed lets say somewhat like you, they were put to death, a whole city including the Catholics in the city because there was no way to tell them apart form one from another. This was done believing that since we are eternally secure, this was the way to wipe out division from the church and no harm done and the Lord would sort it out. Those who did this are obviously awaiting the final judgment in hell. Shure they are eternally secure. Dear I am not joking they are still in Gods hands just like the Christians in the world wars killing each other. Jesus has the keys of death and hell. Don't think that the Catholics did not believe in eternal security, but that what happened was enough to think otherwise. I don't remember the name of the church involved and this in not the only time these thing happened. In a way its sobering to accept eternal security as being loved by God as we are, giving us freedom to grow in Love and not to turn away from His Love. I know you believe this and I do as well and so does everyone. But we have an enemy and we need to be patient and wise.

stillness · Feb 4, 2019

I hope you all understand that I did not intend to be a judge of where those people ended up who carried out orders for wages and that the people in charge are the ones in severe judgment.

stillness · Feb 4, 2019

stonesoffire said:

No I had not noticed a post of yours, just aware its hard for many Christian to face the depravity of their spirit but it becomes obvious in difficulty to spend time alone with God, that is the evidence of a divided spirit. We actually agree and your saying better than I do the divided condition of our spirit, from what you wrote: And to be One with God is a goal also which will culminate in the day we pass over. But as for what I said about believers that are babes and divided is the evidence that being borne of God as a Baby Christian has not solved the condition of our spirit as many suppose, and your right I try so hard with so many word and really need to prevail in prayer instead. God's blessing and wholeness on the Journey.

Rosemaryx · Feb 4, 2019

Hevosmies said:

Hi H...Once we come to know the word , those who are truly saved will not practice sin...I was a heavy drinker , the LORD did not remove that drunkenness away from me in one go as He has with others , but I began to binge drink less and less...If I had not taken the seriousness of God`s word , and kept to my habit that kept me in darkness , could I class myself as saved ?
It has been a long time since I had a drink to get drunk , and this is because I am walking in the Spirit , I am not willfully sinning , but I have fallen many times since the LORD has been working with me...
God looks on our heart , He knows our motives , only reading the word of God will saturate us and remove the completeness of sin in His time not ours...
Thank God His grace and Mercy are new every morning...xox...

stillness · Feb 4, 2019

stonesoffire said:

I was referring to the verse, "If you are then risen with Christ, set your affection on things above and not on things no the earth, for you are dead and your life is hidden with Christ in God." Jesus made this attainable: that we are already there by Faith, as Faith sees the unseen. I believe its good to see this but with the mindset that we are dead to the world, otherwise its an unrealistic illusion. This would be the same as believing we already have a crown. Rather acknowledging we are on the journey, our view of eternal security can be compatible with others who believe to go on to perfection and that it's mostly pain and unresolved anger causing divisions; taking responsibility to fulfil our own obedience first, then we would be able to encourage others without trying, and from a place of rest as we agree it can't be done by trying to help God, that would be the dead works, as He told me: I don't need your help. Believing we are secure, seeing Gods perspective and going deeper in His will and intercession. Now I can let this go like I'm hearing I should and continue in prayer that we learn of the Lord in humility and enter His rest, that we may run and not be weary...

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