Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
920
87
28
64
you left me out.

I point out how you refuse to accept the definition of believe.
Believe, to do the work of God: to follow Jesus
follow Jesus, to do the will of God remain in the Joy of the Lord in prayer and thankgiving
Believe means believe, IMAGINE THAT.

Next you're gonna tell me walk means walk? pssh.

Let me breakdown the word walk:

W-a-l-k to communicate. All you have to do is take the W, replace it with a T, and you got t-a-l-k.
Works salvation 101 that's how you do it.
I I'm not sure whos side your on, I hear you say that if you take the Work out of salvation all you have is talk.
I look forward to the persecution of Christians and for this mess to be all over and the time is near.
I made a reference to Catholic Christians and waldenses who died together because the catholic royalty who had their view of salvation challenged could no longer tell their followers from those who followed Christ; having been evangelized by the waldensians, who believed in salvation by Grace through Faith. These believed they could lose their crown by compromising with the catholic. The catholic royalty hired men to destroy the whole city.
This is one account of the waldenses but have not found the video of the destruction of the whole city of mixed belief. May we all die together in Jesus name, persecuted and learn humility from Jesus rather than persecute those in the Faith.
<https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=waldensians+persecution+vidio&&view=detail&mid=6266D95E4EC435CDCE7B6266D95E4EC435CDCE7B&&FORM=VDRVRV>
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
2,835
1,978
113
Believe, to do the work of God: to follow Jesus
follow Jesus, to do the will of God remain in the Joy of the Lord in prayer and thankgiving

I I'm not sure whos side your on, I hear you say that if you take the Work out of salvation all you have is talk.
I look forward to the persecution of Christians and for this mess to be all over and the time is near.
I made a reference to Catholic Christians and waldenses who died together because the catholic royalty who had their view of salvation challenged could no longer tell their followers from those who followed Christ; having been evangelized by the waldensians, who believed in salvation by Grace through Faith. These believed they could lose their crown by compromising with the catholic. The catholic royalty hired men to destroy the whole city.
Oh I was just making the point in that post about how some people like hebrew roots cultists TWIST scripture and clear words to make their theology fit.

I believe in Eternal Security of the Believer! I believe in predestination!

By GRACE through FAITH.
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
2,535
705
113
God does keep believers. We are secure in Christ. But we must put on the armor, we must heed to the warnings and admonishi
MANY will come to me in that day saying, "Lord, Lord, have we not done many wonderful works in your name, have we not prophesied in thy name, and have we not cast out many devils in your name."

What does JESUS say.......depart from me you workers of iniquity...I NEVER KNEW YOU

This is the same dogma that the workers for, Cainologists, Pharisees and law peddlers push on this site.....

They believe in their MIND that they KNOW the LORD and they PEDDLE their works as the proverbial "proof in the pudding"
They peddle WORKS as part of the TICKET to paradise..........they blend FAITH and WORKS to gain, maintain, keep, top off, finish off SALVATION.

GALATIANS condemns this view as false, double cursed and having NO POWER and the reason is simple.....to BLEND works in with faith is to devalue the work of Christ on our behalf and reeks of a lack of trust that Christ will do what he said he will do.

The bible is clear....FAITH is what SAVES A MAN ETERNALLY.......VERB TENSE sets forth that we are SAVED, continuing to BE SAVED and will REMAIN saved.....

THE gifts and calling of GOD are IRREVOCABLE <----SALVATION IS A FREE GIFT that CANNOT be earned and or MAINTAINED by MAN.......
Works do not save us period, no argument. but do not minimize their importance.

Titus 2:14- who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a people for his own possession, zealous of good works.

I know I'm saved and that my position in Christ is not based on performance. But I want to be all that God called me to be.

And why shouldn't this be the mindset and heart of every believer?

A true believer loves the Lord

and one who loves the Lord desires to glorify Him in body and spirit, which are the Lord's

FAITH WORKS BY LOVE.

This has been my position from the beginning. And you took issue with it from the beginning.
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
2,535
705
113
We need to be diligent to hear Him, so that we follow Him, and not become lost.




JPT
I agree with the part that agrees with "My sheep listen to my voice, I know them and they follow me. I give them eternal life and they shall never perish, etc.

If we go around thinking we are His sheep when we ignore His voice and don't follow Him, we are deceived
 
Feb 5, 2019
92
32
18
Walking in the Spirit is not slavery and it is not being under the Law. Seeking to glorify God with my spirit and my body which are His is not law keeping. Being dilligent to do the things that Peter admonished us to do in 2 Peter 1 is not making salvation our responsibility

I am already saved. Now I must perfect holiness in the fear of the Lord. Not according to me, but according to scripture
who said anything about you not being saved,

by your own words , you must have a problem understanding other part of the bible, romane 8 v1 and 2 already quoted
is fear meantioned in romans 8 v1 etc


john said this,( has fear any part to believing in a saviour)
14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.1 John 4

paul said this
11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.” acts 15


the choice is yours to make , believe in what jesus has done, or reject what jesus has done, will lead to a consequence.
result
4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
2,535
705
113
who said anything about you not being saved,

by your own words , you must have a problem understanding other part of the bible, romane 8 v1 and 2 already quoted
is fear meantioned in romans 8 v1 etc


john said this,( has fear any part to believing in a saviour)
14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.1 John 4

paul said this
11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.” acts 15


the choice is yours to make , believe in what jesus has done, or reject what jesus has done, will lead to a consequence.
result
4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
Are you referring to the SCRIPTURE I quoted. Perfectiing holiness in the fear of the Lord is in the Bible, my friend. 2 Corinthians 7:1, and I am pretty sure the APOSTLE PAUL understood Romans 8:1. Besides, fear in this text means reverence.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
920
87
28
64
God does keep believers. We are secure in Christ. But we must put on the armor, we must heed to the warnings and admonishi


Works do not save us period, no argument. but do not minimize their importance.

Titus 2:14- who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a people for his own possession, zealous of good works.

I know I'm saved and that my position in Christ is not based on performance. But I want to be all that God called me to be.

And why shouldn't this be the mindset and heart of every believer?

A true believer loves the Lord

and one who loves the Lord desires to glorify Him in body and spirit, which are the Lord's

FAITH WORKS BY LOVE.

This has been my position from the beginning. And you took issue with it from the beginning.
Praise the Lord no work no everlasting crown, those who don't work don't get paid, they remain among the nations of the saved.
"Some will be saved but as through fire but lose their reward. Both sides of the argument are saved but to have a crown we can no longer be double minded and must give up quarreling, "Only by pride comes contention. I left already, the quarrel that is; accepting that both views have their place.
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
2,535
705
113
Let me lay out a view of the relationship between faith and works that is neither easy believism nor works plus faith salvation. This is what I believe is the balanced view.

a. God REGENERATES a person, making them a new creation.

b. The new creation LOVES GOD and DESIRES to GLORIFY HIM. Not to win salvation, but out of gratitude for salvation.

c. The same God who GIVES a person a DESIRE to serve Him, glorify Him, and obey Him, grants Him the supernatural power to do so.

d. In other words, IT IS GOD WHO WORKS IN US BOTH TO WILL AND TO DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE. Philipians
2:13

So what of all this silly argument about works, WHEN WE HAVE NOTHING THAT WAS NOT FREELY GIVEN TO US BY GOD.

Simple.

WE DO not serve to be saved, we were saved to serve

I don't need to work for something that has already been given to me freely
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
8,288
4,692
113
Mental activity is worthless.


Only obedience matters.


Demons believe, but they obey Satan.



He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not lobey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36



JPT
Mental activity is worthless.
Only obedience matters.
Well now this is interesting. A false dichotomy if I ever saw one.

Interesting, in light of the fact that Paul speaks frequently of being "persuaded" having "faith"

Also interesting that in the Gospel of John.......

in the KJV, 'believe' occurs 131 times. If you include "believed," and "believeth," the count goes up to 285.

It must be quite powerful this "believe"
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
2,535
705
113
WE possess no good thing that was not given to us by God. 1 Cor 4:7

That includes our good works. We are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10

When we think of works as meritorious, we fail to realize that the good works that God gave us are a gift, and are sorely confused on this matter.
 
Feb 5, 2019
92
32
18
Are you referring to the SCRIPTURE I quoted. Perfectiing holiness in the fear of the Lord is in the Bible, my friend. 2 Corinthians 7:1, and I am pretty sure the APOSTLE PAUL understood Romans 8:1. Besides, fear in this text means reverence.
no,the big underlined part , has nothing to do with scripture, it was quoted by you, in my last post to you.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
920
87
28
64
Let me lay out a view of the relationship between faith and works that is neither easy believism nor works plus faith salvation. This is what I believe is the balanced view.

a. God REGENERATES a person, making them a new creation.

b. The new creation LOVES GOD and DESIRES to GLORIFY HIM. Not to win salvation, but out of gratitude for salvation.

c. The same God who GIVES a person a DESIRE to serve Him, glorify Him, and obey Him, grants Him the supernatural power to do so.

d. In other words, IT IS GOD WHO WORKS IN US BOTH TO WILL AND TO DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE. Philipians
2:13

So what of all this silly argument about works, WHEN WE HAVE NOTHING THAT WAS NOT FREELY GIVEN TO US BY GOD.

Simple.

WE DO not serve to be saved, we were saved to serve

I don't need to work for something that has already been given to me freely
Paul received an everlasting crown of Life,
Let me lay out a view of the relationship between faith and works that is neither easy believism nor works plus faith salvation. This is what I believe is the balanced view.

a. God REGENERATES a person, making them a new creation.

b. The new creation LOVES GOD and DESIRES to GLORIFY HIM. Not to win salvation, but out of gratitude for salvation.

c. The same God who GIVES a person a DESIRE to serve Him, glorify Him, and obey Him, grants Him the supernatural power to do so.

d. In other words, IT IS GOD WHO WORKS IN US BOTH TO WILL AND TO DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE. Philipians
2:13

So what of all this silly argument about works, WHEN WE HAVE NOTHING THAT WAS NOT FREELY GIVEN TO US BY GOD.

Simple.

WE DO not serve to be saved, we were saved to serve

I don't need to work for something that has already been given to me freely
Paul knew he had obtained a crown of everlasting Life before he died, having suffered and died with Jesus to do the work of God already. I don't have a crown of life already and neither do you, I am beginning to Cry for one, we are entering the final battle, kingdom against Kingdom. "Pray that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things and stand before the son of man."
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
920
87
28
64
Many are trapped in the box of their understanding where we can't know God: no mater how good our understanding is we cant lean on it and walk by faith. Like the knowledge of good and evil: is our understanding evil? Yes, the fruit is desiring to be in charge of our life, an unbeliever named it ego. We cant even instruct anyone how to go on to perfection, its the Holy Spirit that has to instruct us. "Many are called but few are chosen." “And all things, of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and has given to us the ministry of reconciliation;” The Holy Spirit is poured out on all flesh, many Buddhists are closer to God than quarreling baby Christians and believe that on a higher plane Christians and Buddhists become One.
 
Feb 5, 2019
92
32
18
how holy can you be, if god already lives in you, in the day you first believed jesus to be your saviour.




john said this,
14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.1 John 4


Romans 11:29
29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.
:You're wrong. Look up 2 Cor 7:1
no
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,265
2,286
113
I was U.S.S. Shore Duty. I worked at a weapons station in Hawaii. Some people may try to say I wasn’t serving, I was surfing. :D

I had a BOSS that was a Master Sargent in the Air Force, on Okinawa, that was a fishing fanatic, my work week went like this.

I would come in on Monday and I had to work hard to answer any Messages that came in on the teletype, even if it meant Overtime.

Tuesday morning, I had run around the shop to collect $10.00 money, from everyone that wanted to go on a fishing trip on Wednesday.

Tuesday afternoon, I had to go downtown to rent the biggest boat I could for the Money we collected that Morning.

Wednesday we took the Boat Out all day for the Fishing Trip.

Thursday I had to WORK HARD to get caught up on my TYPING, and if I had to work overtime.

Friday, Morning I had to collect the $10.00, from everyone that wanted to go Fishing on Saturday.

Friday after Noon, I had to go down to the small boat harbor, to RENT the BOAT for the Next Morning.

Saturday we got on the BOAT, to go back out on the Ocean, Fishing all day.


That only lasted about 6 months, and my Boss Retired.

Then I got a Second Lieutenant that had been busted from CAPTAIN, and he was bound and determined to make his CAPTAIN Bars back, no matter how much over time I had to work.
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
8,288
4,692
113
how holy can you be, if god already lives in you, in the day you first believed jesus to be your saviour.
Exactly we are holy! We not being made holy, we learn to live out that position, the true reality of who we are in Christ.

The flesh is not being redeemed.
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
2,535
705
113
Paul received an everlasting crown of Life,

Paul knew he had obtained a crown of everlasting Life before he died, having suffered and died with Jesus to do the work of God already. I don't have a crown of life already and neither do you, I am beginning to Cry for one, we are entering the final battle, kingdom against Kingdom. "Pray that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things and stand before the son of man."
Upon the crystal pavement down at Jesus' pierced feet
joyful I'll cast my golden crown, and His dear name repeat.