Not By Works

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Macabeus

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Dec 27, 2018
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You see what OSAS actually TEACHES, is that ONCE we are SAVED, that new nature within us, will want to obey HIM, out of LOVE FOR HIM. And we cannot claim credit for that KIND OF LOVE, because GOD Holy Spirit POURED GOD's LOVE directly into our Hearts (Human Spirit), when HE birthed our Human Spirit into eternal Life.
You do realize that everything you just said has been said by me right here on this thread.
 

Macabeus

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Dec 27, 2018
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You see what OSAS actually TEACHES, is that ONCE we are SAVED, that new nature within us, will want to obey HIM, out of LOVE FOR HIM. And we cannot claim credit for that KIND OF LOVE, because GOD Holy Spirit POURED GOD's LOVE directly into our Hearts (Human Spirit), when HE birthed our Human Spirit into eternal Life.

Now compare that to what a typical Armenian wants to believe what WE TEACH, and you will find out that they are Peddling a LIE about OSAS.
First of all, you have to know that there are different types of Arminians.

Do you hold to all five points of TULIP? Let me know.

And Arminians do not misunderstand easy believism. They often MISUNDERSTAND Calvinism (for the record, I am not a Calvinist or arminiam , so this is not a biased statement) They often misunderstand Calvinists. But they do not misunderstand "easy believism". And Calvinists for the most part reject easy believism too.

I am not arguing against OSAS. I am arguing against teaching that a regenerate person can hate and deny God in his actions and claim to have saving faith. In others thread, things were said like if you believe, even for just a moment, you will be saved NO MATTER WHAT.
 

Macabeus

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Dec 27, 2018
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That’s true.

I agree.


His sheep that stray away from Him because they stop listening to Him, become lost.


  • What man of you, having a hundred sheep,

  • Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


These are all His sheep.


One becomes lost.


The lost sheep, is no Refered to as a sinner in need of repentance.





JPT
Yes, Jesus goes after the lost and He goes after us when we get off track
 

Macabeus

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Dec 27, 2018
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and before someone says that "noone is saying you can hate and deny God in your actions and say you have saving faith", one person asked me if a Christian can die in the state that the Prodigal Son died in and be saved, apparently thinking they could. Well, I've never read in scripture about a prodigal son that didn't come back, (not to mention, the prodigal son in the original meaning and intent did not represent backslidden Christians) so why ask such a question? To prop up the idea that Christians with saving faith can live in willful rejection of God or gross unrepented sin until death severs their spirit from body. This I do not accept. I do not think a saved person should be comfortable enough in sin to do this.
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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and before someone says that "noone is saying you can hate and deny God in your actions and say you have saving faith", one person asked me if a Christian can die in the state that the Prodigal Son died in and be saved, apparently thinking they could. Well, I've never read in scripture about a prodigal son that didn't come back, (not to mention, the prodigal son in the original meaning and intent did not represent backslidden Christians) so why ask such a question? To prop up the idea that Christians with saving faith can live in willful rejection of God or gross unrepented sin until death severs their spirit from body. This I do not accept. I do not think a saved person should be comfortable enough in sin to do this.
1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin, (continuous, willful, habitual lifestyle with no goal or effort to stop, no remorse, no repentance, just bring it on!) because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Practicing righteousness and not sin along with love for our brother characterizes those who are born of God. Of course, this does not mean that those who are born of God never sin at all or never get upset with their brother, but it also does not mean that those who are born of God continue to live like the devil and hate their brother either.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Yes, Jesus goes after the lost and He goes after us when we get off track

Actually, Jesus is teach His disciples what they are to do when one of His sheep becomes lost.


Matthew gives us more detail. -


  • If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray,


“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
Matthew 18:12-17


Here are the steps to take about going after a lost sheep.



  • Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.


  • But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’


  • And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.




JLB
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Actually, Jesus is teach His disciples what they are to do when one of His sheep becomes lost.


Matthew gives us more detail. -


  • If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray,


“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
Matthew 18:12-17


Here are the steps to take about going after a lost sheep.



  • Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.


  • But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’


  • And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.




JLB

There is a VERY important word that is in the Luke account of this story. UNTIL

Luke 15 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Parable of the Lost Sheep
15 Then all the tax collectors and the sinners drew near to Him to hear Him. 2 And the Pharisees and scribes complained, saying, “This Man [a]receives sinners and eats with them.” 3 So He spoke this parable to them, saying:

4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost UNTIL he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine[b]just persons who need no repentance.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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1 Corinthians 7:1
Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.

Hi Macabeus, I like your choice of screen names. Concerning 2 Corinthians 7:1, I believe we are both "made holy", 1Colossians 1:22; through the blood sacrifice of Jesus Christs on a Roman cross. And we are also responsible to pursue a life of holy living for the rest of our earthly life. Colossians 1:23.

My only point here is that I do not support the heresy of sinless perfectionism, there are not 2 types of Christians in the world, and from reading your post's you are opposed to sinless perfectionism as well.

Please excuse me if my post is out of place or off topic, I just wanted to add my comment and say nice to meet you.

Matthew 5:8
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

Hebrews 12:14
Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord

Hebrews 10:10
And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all
Christians are "made holy once for all", Hebrews 10:10 and Christians have a responsibility to pursue a Holy Life.
 

star

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Nov 8, 2017
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Every saved soul IMHO will seek to live as closely to Christ as possible. They will also stray. That is why we have the HS; to remind us when we do stray and lose our way. It's called conviction.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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One thing I find interesting...especially with those that peddle a losable salvation, is the simple fact that many flat ignore the absolute truth that when a saved child of God wanders too far and sinks in sin to the point that their conscience is seared that GOD will bring out the one tool that most ignore and or over look.....THAT BEING CHASTISEMENT......

GOD only WHIPS SONS and there is only one reason WHY HE WHIPS SONS---->disobedience/rebellion/sin/walking contrary

I have asked this question many times of ALL that say one who is sinning cannot possibly be saved and NONE of them have answered when I asked...

WHO DOES GOD WHIP AND WHY?
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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One thing I find interesting...especially with those that peddle a losable salvation, is the simple fact that many flat ignore the absolute truth that when a saved child of God wanders too far and sinks in sin to the point that their conscience is seared that GOD will bring out the one tool that most ignore and or over look.....
THAT BEING CHASTISEMENT......

GOD only WHIPS SONS and there is only one reason WHY HE WHIPS SONS---->disobedience/rebellion/sin/walking contrary

I have asked this question many times of ALL that say one who is sinning cannot possibly be saved and NONE of them have answered when I asked...

WHO DOES GOD WHIP AND WHY?
Hi decon, yes God does discipline every son and if you do not experience God's discipline you may be an "illegitimate sons." Hebrews 12:6-9

When God disciplines a believer it can come in various forms as Decon has described as the traditional "Whip or Rod", and the purpose of discipline is always used in an effort for you and I to learn a lesson that God is attempting to teach us. While "teaching a lesson" can be happening, "learning a lesson" does not always happen.

Does any Christian welcome the discipline of God, well yes and no....:)

I would say that even if you have a physical illness, as did Job, Jonah and the Apostle Paul had, for just 3 biblical examples, everyone can see how God can use this physical illness to discipline a believer. Even Paul agreed after asking for his thorn in the side to be removed that God was teaching Paul a lesson in humility, "My grace is sufficient for thee."

2 Corinthians 12:8,9
8) Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9) But He said to me, My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly in my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest on me.

Hebrews 12:6-9
6)
For the Lord disciplines the one He loves, and He chastises every son He receives.”
7) Endure suffering as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?
8) If you do not experience discipline like everyone else, then you are illegitimate children and not true sons.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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Yes God does discipline every son and if you do not experience God's discipline you may be an "illegitimate sons." Hebrews 12:6-9

When God disciplines a believer it can come in various forms as Decon has described as the traditional "Whip or Rod", and the purpose of discipline is always used in an effort for you and I to learn a lesson that God is attempting to teach us. While "teaching a lesson" can be happening, "learning a lesson" does not always happen.

Does any Christian welcome the discipline of God, well yes and no....:)

I would say that even if you have a physical illness, as did Job, Jonah and the Apostle Paul had, for just 3 biblical examples, everyone can see how God can use this physical illness to discipline a believer. Even Paul agreed after asking for his thorn in the side to be removed that God was teaching Paul a lesson in humility, "My grace is sufficient for thee."

2 Corinthians 12:8,9

8) Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9) But He said to me, My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly in my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest on me.​



Hebrews 12:6-9
6)
For the Lord disciplines the one He loves, and He chastises every son He receives.”
7) Endure suffering as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?
8) If you do not experience discipline like everyone else, then you are illegitimate children and not true sons.
The only thing I would change is to drop the word "sons" after illegitimate.........if one is illegitimate they are not sons......and even though chastening sucks it is a sure sign of sonship.........
 

TruthTalk

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Jul 17, 2017
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The only thing I would change is to drop the word "sons" after illegitimate.........if one is illegitimate they are not sons......and even though chastening sucks it is a sure sign of sonship.........
My quote: "Yes God does discipline every son and if you do not experience God's discipline you may be an "illegitimate" sons." Hebrews 12:6-9

How's that, just for the record; "if you are "illegitimate", you are by definition, "not a son", of the King...:)

Amen! and good call brother decon, thanks
 
Feb 6, 2019
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Works are important to me only to please the Lord and serve him, He gave us salvation for free, what an amazing God we have! It also breaks my heart that so many lost souls just turn their back, let’s all pray for them. God bless all of you
 

dcontroversal

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Dec 12, 2013
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Works are important to me only to please the Lord and serve him, He gave us salvation for free, what an amazing God we have! It also breaks my heart that so many lost souls just turn their back, let’s all pray for them. God bless all of you
AMEN....and most agree......saved by faith to serve.....however.....it is not faith plus works to gain, keep, embellish, top off or finish salvation........
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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My quote: "Yes God does discipline every son and if you do not experience God's discipline you may be an "illegitimate" sons." Hebrews 12:6-9

How's that, just for the record; "if you are "illegitimate", you are by definition, "not a son", of the King...:)

Amen! and good call brother decon, thanks
AMEN brother.....keep swinging mate HAHAHAH
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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Yup! NOT A FAN

I opt-out of ALL suffering, thank you very much
I am....why.....because it proves that I am a child of the King.......I have been through it and for sure it sucked at the time....but hindsight is 20/20.....when looking back......I thanked God he whipped the crap out of me in love as a son.